spark plug thread (1 Viewer)

[turbocruiser]

Turbocruiser
I'm quite comfortable with the topic of spark plugs at a very nerdy level, and I'm pretty confident you could read my posts and get the information you were looking for, I made sure to include it. The topic of your deleted thread wasn't platinum/iridium vs copper, it was your claim of copper as the 'best' conductor, and BKR7ES as the recommended app for a turbo 1FZ... Nology isn't the only one that makes a silver electrode plug.
Carry on and cheers!

Scott J
94 FZJ80 Supercharged
BKR6EIX equipped

No the purpose of the deleted thread was ONLY to give people who were using the BCPR7ES-11 an easier way to plug their rigs. That was completely clear from the start. Then several fine folks wondered whether Platinum was better and I answered with concerns ranging from conductivity to the plating process to the regapping process. That was all way back in 08 of 08. Then recently when it was revived it included Iridium and I again talked to the conductivity of copper which was at least three times better than Iridium. I never knew that nology or anyone at all for that fact made Silver plugs, Silver plugs were never part of the thread until you mentioned them much later. I went out of my way to offer a "hopefully helpful hint" for those few who were always having to regap their -11's. That is all it was.

 

[SUMOTOY]

I've always taken Spark Plug theory and application (likely too) seriously, because I have to. Shaun, Baktasht and I have suggested several times you at least consider researching better designs of that same copper plug you want to use. And/or you don't have to!

I really have no selfish interest (any interest at this point) to put up my spark plug recommendations on a force induction 80 motor. IMO at <10psi, not a whole lot of high level thought is required to put a good plug into the FZ motor. One certainly can try really hard to make it more difficult.

And, it's good to hear that a single copper electrode plug can work too! With tongue in cheek, may I suggest the plane took off already, not to worry, I've missed many myself over the years.

Carry on!

Scott J
94 FZJ80 Supercharged
BKR6EIX equipped

 

[turbocruiser]

I've always taken Spark Plug theory and application (likely too) seriously, because I have to. Shaun, Baktasht and I have suggested several times you at least consider researching better designs of that same copper plug you want to use. And/or you don't have to!

I really have no selfish interest (any interest at this point) to put up my spark plug recommendations on a force induction 80 motor. IMO at <10psi, not a whole lot of high level thought is required to put a good plug into the FZ motor. One certainly can try really hard to make it more difficult.

And, it's good to hear that a single copper electrode plug can work too! With tongue in cheek, may I suggest the plane took off already, not to worry, I've missed many myself over the years.

Carry on!

Scott J
94 FZJ80 Supercharged
BKR6EIX equipped

Scott, real simple stuff here, pick a plug with the right heat range (NGK 7 or equivalent) and the right resistor type and preferably the right gap (.6mm although that's not too critical because I can regap them despite what you have already not accurately stated on regapping) and I'll consider it. Keep putting in plugs 2 full heat ranges off with the wrong resistor type and I won't consider it. Stop making major mistakes with what you recommend while telling others they oughtta get more educated and more experienced and then the FAA will stop kicking you off of your metaphorical flight.

 

[Tapage]

I really have no selfish interest (any interest at this point) to put up my spark plug recommendations on a force induction 80 motor. IMO at <10psi, not a whole lot of high level thought is required to put a good plug into the FZ motor

it drive me to another simple question .. how much boost can handle the engine ( rods, head, gasket studs etc ) in it's stock form .. ?

 

[NKP Garage]

it drive me to another simple question .. how much boost can handle the engine ( rods, head, gasket studs etc ) in it's stock form .. ?

From what I've seen the first weak point is the headgasket. The pistons/rods/crank on the 1fz should be able to take quite a beating in stock form. An MLS headgasket would definitely help though.

 

[turbocruiser]

it drive me to another simple question .. how much boost can handle the engine ( rods, head, gasket studs etc ) in it's stock form .. ?

10 psi is no problem, 12 psi is starting to stress the stock engine management/fuel management systems, IIRC Alan ran 14 - 16 regularly with a boost controller but that engine eventually died (while he was racing a Supra though ). As baktasht stated, a MLS HG can help especially if it has a compression lowering component to it. The original OEM headgaskets have to be the first "fuse" or weak link with running big boost. I expect the new OEM headgaskets solve that potential problem but they don't do anything to address the highish compression. HTH.

 

[Tapage]

Thanks .. both for the info .. I have a ton of questions about this issue .. but I will open a new thread about turbos on 1FZ-FE and fuel management ..

cheers,

David

 

[turbocruiser]

Fellas, with an attempt at an open mind I took some time to look through the plugs Scott posted and actually see that almost all of them except the BPR6ET and the BPR5ET (BTW I think that Scott meant BPR5ET instead of the BKR5ET which was posted?) are verbatim what NGK recommends on their automated plug application tool. The 5's are stock apps and the 6's are what we would do by going down one heat range from stock app. So either Scott just plugged in FZJ80 and got those particular plugs, or, he accidentally agrees much more with NGK than he thought he did. (Just a good natured gest there) Anyways I agree that all the plugs, with the possible exception of hte BPR5 and BPR6, which simply weren't listed, will ultimately work because NGK themselves say those specific plugs will work.

A couple less than ideal things I found from cross reference charts is that the "EIX" plugs which are Iridium apparently have an ISO plug length (50.5mm) instead of the JIS plug length (53mm) that our rigs really prefer for fitment of the plug wires and also for centering in combustion chambers. I prefer to stay with JIS length for those two reasons although it might not matter that much. I do wonder whether the wires fit well on the end terminal and also still seal well above at the valve cover with the shorter ISO length? It may be a problem, it may not be. I also do wonder whether the slightly different centering within the combustion chamber makes any matter. Again it might be a problem and it might not be. Lastly although NGK allows regapping of precious metal plugs, I'd rather not regap them and from what I can see these specific EIX's are only offered in .032 or .8mm gaps. So I still go back to them basically being one heat range off (I cannot find any reference anywhere on NGK's site about these being "+/- 2") and a little large of a gap for the 10ish psi now on my own rig. I'm not negating anything, I'm just wondering aloud for others to share their thoughts on those things.

Another thing I found from the cross reference charts is there are apparently two separate gap settings in the "EGP" plugs (sort of like with my tried and true BKPR's - one style has gap of 1.1mm and another style has gap of .8mm) and one EGP plug has a gap of .040 while the other has a gap of .032. I could not tell if there is some specifc suffix on the EGP's from the site but I'm sure there is like the -11 on the BKPR's. Not an issue as long as one confirms that they're getting the .032 / 8mm factory gap. But again I'm wondering whether being one heat range off and a little large of a gap matters much and asking others to share their thoughts there too.

Lastly what I found with the BPR's is that they are multiple electrode pure copper plugs with one heat range off and an .8mm gap.

So with my mind remaining as open as possible. I'd like to delve deeper into these other plug options with some questions to anyone would wants to answer them.

1. Is the difference in length with the EIX's any potential problem at all?
2. Is the .8mm gap that all these plugs come with any potential problem at all?
3. Is the one range off with the higher heat range any potential problem at all?

Then, with my mind still open I want to ask about the multiple electrode mindset. Let's take a simple concept like indexing plugs when we install them, which I would argue is somewhat important with the 1FZFE and really important with other cylinder head and combustion chamber designs ... when you index the plugs you are essentially attempting to keep the side electrode out of the way of the ignition of the combustion chamber gasses while also considering flow characteristics of intake and exhaust valves. So if you have multiple side electrodes each one taking a line on the compass, you cannot possibly index them. It seems intuitive to me that because basically only one side electrode at any given time can carry the ignition arc, the other three are always then in the way. I'm not arguing, I'm just asking.

Further thoughts on the multiple electrode mindset ... Scott stated something along the lines of "A triple ground or quad ground electrodes more than double the chance of spark propogation and gives a larger spark for a given size gap." which I just cannot wrap my mind around as hard as I've tried. Again, I'm not arguing, I'm just asking but simply technically speaking, multiple electrodes, no matter how many of them, cannot "double the chance of spark propogation" ... that is physically impossible because the spark is only going to go to ONE of those multiple electrodes. It will not and can not ever arc to two or even three or four electrodes at the same time ... it will only ever arc to ONE of them and probably 99.9999% of the time it will arc to whichever one is longest/closest to the center electrode. As the electrodes themselves erode the arc will simply rotate with the longest/closest ONE of those multiple electrodes time after time after time. Additionally with 100% propagation (ie never one single misfire with my specific setup) how do you "increase the chances of spark propagation". Furthermore as far as I can wrap my mind around, the multiple electrodes cannot "give a larger spark for a given size gap" as Scott stated, that is also physically impossible ... the spark will be the same size between the same size gap ... there's no way to make a larger spark without more voltage, and/or less resistance in the plug.

As far as I can tell then, the only real reason to have a multiple electrode plug is longer life; basically you have three times or four times as much side electrode to wear through. Additionally the only real reason to have an Iridium or Platinum plug, other than the higher heat range ability, is longer life; the much harder and much more heat tolerate metalurgy of Iridium or Platinum simply means that it takes a lot longer to erode the electrodes.

I guess I'm getting back to the performance question, and again I'm asking, I'm not arguing, but how exactly can an Iridium, Platinum or Multiple-Electrode Copper plug "outperform" what I've so stubbornly used all along exempting longevity alone as the answer? Is it something that is measurable or observable?

Lastly, on the one thing accepted by all (including my stubborn self all along ) which is the longer life of Iridium, Platinum or Multiple-Electrode Copper plugs Scott suggested pulling a plug every 10K, checking it and if it is good put the plug back in and if it is bad replace it. Well, that seems somewhat strange thing; I mean I know a gasket seat plug can be reseated a couple times, maybe even a few times but with this way of checking plug life you might reseat the plugs 6 to 8 times "if yer lucky" and how will that plug respond and reseat. I know it is old fashioned for me to say so but I wouldn't want to remove and reseat a plug so many times for fear of cracking the ceramic or messing up the gasket seat. So I get back to my method of using one old particular plug which works incredibly well with no fouling no misfiring no problems, which I change every 10K and feel fine about. Why is it advisable to go from that to a plug that costs 6x more and that I have to remove and reseat until I determine its done finally? IOW, in what specific way other than longer life will any of these outperform my tried and true BKPR7ES's? Again, I'm not arguing, I'm asking and I'm all ears now. Thanks. This is indeed pretty cool stuff.

 

[turbocruiser]

Fellas, with an attempt at an open mind I took some time to look through the plugs Scott posted and actually see that almost all of them except the BPR6ET and the BPR5ET (BTW I think that Scott meant BPR5ET instead of the BKR5ET which was posted?) are verbatim what NGK recommends on their automated plug application tool. The 5's are stock apps and the 6's are what we would do by going down one heat range from stock app. So either Scott just plugged in FZJ80 and got those particular plugs, or, he accidentally agrees much more with NGK than he thought he did. (Just a good natured gest there) Anyways I agree that all the plugs, with the possible exception of hte BPR5 and BPR6, which simply weren't listed, will ultimately work because NGK themselves say those specific plugs will work.

A couple less than ideal things I found from cross reference charts is that the "EIX" plugs which are Iridium apparently have an ISO plug length (50.5mm) instead of the JIS plug length (53mm) that our rigs really prefer for fitment of the plug wires and also for centering in combustion chambers. I prefer to stay with JIS length for those two reasons although it might not matter that much. I do wonder whether the wires fit well on the end terminal and also still seal well above at the valve cover with the shorter ISO length? It may be a problem, it may not be. I also do wonder whether the slightly different centering within the combustion chamber makes any matter. Again it might be a problem and it might not be. Lastly although NGK allows regapping of precious metal plugs, I'd rather not regap them and from what I can see these specific EIX's are only offered in .032 or .8mm gaps. So I still go back to them basically being one heat range off (I cannot find any reference anywhere on NGK's site about these being "+/- 2") and a little large of a gap for the 10ish psi now on my own rig. I'm not negating anything, I'm just wondering aloud for others to share their thoughts on those things.

Another thing I found from the cross reference charts is there are apparently two separate gap settings in the "EGP" plugs (sort of like with my tried and true BKPR's - one style has gap of 1.1mm and another style has gap of .8mm) and one EGP plug has a gap of .040 while the other has a gap of .032. I could not tell if there is some specifc suffix on the EGP's from the site but I'm sure there is like the -11 on the BKPR's. Not an issue as long as one confirms that they're getting the .032 / 8mm factory gap. But again I'm wondering whether being one heat range off and a little large of a gap matters much and asking others to share their thoughts there too.

Lastly what I found with the BPR's is that they are multiple electrode pure copper plugs with one heat range off and an .8mm gap.

So with my mind remaining as open as possible. I'd like to delve deeper into these other plug options with some questions to anyone would wants to answer them.

1. Is the difference in length with the EIX's any potential problem at all?
2. Is the .8mm gap that all these plugs come with any potential problem at all?
3. Is the one range off with the higher heat range any potential problem at all?

Then, with my mind still open I want to ask about the multiple electrode mindset. Let's take a simple concept like indexing plugs when we install them, which I would argue is somewhat important with the 1FZFE and really important with other cylinder head and combustion chamber designs ... when you index the plugs you are essentially attempting to keep the side electrode out of the way of the ignition of the combustion chamber gasses while also considering flow characteristics of intake and exhaust valves. So if you have multiple side electrodes each one taking a line on the compass, you cannot possibly index them. It seems intuitive to me that because basically only one side electrode at any given time can carry the ignition arc, the other three are always then in the way. I'm not arguing, I'm just asking.

Further thoughts on the multiple electrode mindset ... Scott stated something along the lines of "A triple ground or quad ground electrodes more than double the chance of spark propogation and gives a larger spark for a given size gap." which I just cannot wrap my mind around as hard as I've tried. Again, I'm not arguing, I'm just asking but simply technically speaking, multiple electrodes, no matter how many of them, cannot "double the chance of spark propogation" ... that is physically impossible because the spark is only going to go to ONE of those multiple electrodes. It will not and can not ever arc to two or even three or four electrodes at the same time ... it will only ever arc to ONE of them and probably 99.9999% of the time it will arc to whichever one is longest/closest to the center electrode. As the electrodes themselves erode the arc will simply rotate with the longest/closest ONE of those multiple electrodes time after time after time. Additionally with 100% propagation (ie never one single misfire with my specific setup) how do you "increase the chances of spark propagation". Furthermore as far as I can wrap my mind around, the multiple electrodes cannot "give a larger spark for a given size gap" as Scott stated, that is also physically impossible ... the spark will be the same size between the same size gap ... there's no way to make a larger spark without more voltage, and/or less resistance in the plug.

As far as I can tell then, the only real reason to have a multiple electrode plug is longer life; basically you have three times or four times as much side electrode to wear through. Additionally the only real reason to have an Iridium or Platinum plug, other than the higher heat range ability, is longer life; the much harder and much more heat tolerate metalurgy of Iridium or Platinum simply means that it takes a lot longer to erode the electrodes.

I guess I'm getting back to the performance question, and again I'm asking, I'm not arguing, but how exactly can an Iridium, Platinum or Multiple-Electrode Copper plug "outperform" what I've so stubbornly used all along exempting longevity alone as the answer? Is it something that is measurable or observable?

Lastly, on the one thing accepted by all (including my stubborn self all along ) which is the longer life of Iridium, Platinum or Multiple-Electrode Copper plugs Scott suggested pulling a plug every 10K, checking it and if it is good put the plug back in and if it is bad replace it. Well, that seems somewhat strange thing; I mean I know a gasket seat plug can be reseated a couple times, maybe even a few times but with this way of checking plug life you might reseat the plugs 6 to 8 times "if yer lucky" and how will that plug respond and reseat. I know it is old fashioned for me to say so but I wouldn't want to remove and reseat a plug so many times for fear of cracking the ceramic or messing up the gasket seat. So I get back to my method of using one old particular plug which works incredibly well with no fouling no misfiring no problems, which I change every 10K and feel fine about. Why is it advisable to go from that to a plug that costs 6x more and that I have to remove and reseat until I determine its done finally? IOW, in what specific way other than longer life will any of these outperform my tried and true BKPR7ES's? Again, I'm not arguing, I'm asking and I'm all ears now. Thanks. This is indeed pretty cool stuff.

Bump. Fellas, I'd really like to learn your thoughts on these points. Let's not let this thread stop here. Thanks.

 

[turbocruiser]

Fellas, with an attempt at an open mind I took some time to look through the plugs Scott posted and actually see that almost all of them except the BPR6ET and the BPR5ET (BTW I think that Scott meant BPR5ET instead of the BKR5ET which was posted?) are verbatim what NGK recommends on their automated plug application tool. The 5's are stock apps and the 6's are what we would do by going down one heat range from stock app. So either Scott just plugged in FZJ80 and got those particular plugs, or, he accidentally agrees much more with NGK than he thought he did. (Just a good natured gest there) Anyways I agree that all the plugs, with the possible exception of hte BPR5 and BPR6, which simply weren't listed, will ultimately work because NGK themselves say those specific plugs will work.

A couple less than ideal things I found from cross reference charts is that the "EIX" plugs which are Iridium apparently have an ISO plug length (50.5mm) instead of the JIS plug length (53mm) that our rigs really prefer for fitment of the plug wires and also for centering in combustion chambers. I prefer to stay with JIS length for those two reasons although it might not matter that much. I do wonder whether the wires fit well on the end terminal and also still seal well above at the valve cover with the shorter ISO length? It may be a problem, it may not be. I also do wonder whether the slightly different centering within the combustion chamber makes any matter. Again it might be a problem and it might not be. Lastly although NGK allows regapping of precious metal plugs, I'd rather not regap them and from what I can see these specific EIX's are only offered in .032 or .8mm gaps. So I still go back to them basically being one heat range off (I cannot find any reference anywhere on NGK's site about these being "+/- 2") and a little large of a gap for the 10ish psi now on my own rig. I'm not negating anything, I'm just wondering aloud for others to share their thoughts on those things.

Another thing I found from the cross reference charts is there are apparently two separate gap settings in the "EGP" plugs (sort of like with my tried and true BKPR's - one style has gap of 1.1mm and another style has gap of .8mm) and one EGP plug has a gap of .040 while the other has a gap of .032. I could not tell if there is some specifc suffix on the EGP's from the site but I'm sure there is like the -11 on the BKPR's. Not an issue as long as one confirms that they're getting the .032 / 8mm factory gap. But again I'm wondering whether being one heat range off and a little large of a gap matters much and asking others to share their thoughts there too.

Lastly what I found with the BPR's is that they are multiple electrode pure copper plugs with one heat range off and an .8mm gap.

So with my mind remaining as open as possible. I'd like to delve deeper into these other plug options with some questions to anyone would wants to answer them.

1. Is the difference in length with the EIX's any potential problem at all?
2. Is the .8mm gap that all these plugs come with any potential problem at all?
3. Is the one range off with the higher heat range any potential problem at all?

Then, with my mind still open I want to ask about the multiple electrode mindset. Let's take a simple concept like indexing plugs when we install them, which I would argue is somewhat important with the 1FZFE and really important with other cylinder head and combustion chamber designs ... when you index the plugs you are essentially attempting to keep the side electrode out of the way of the ignition of the combustion chamber gasses while also considering flow characteristics of intake and exhaust valves. So if you have multiple side electrodes each one taking a line on the compass, you cannot possibly index them. It seems intuitive to me that because basically only one side electrode at any given time can carry the ignition arc, the other three are always then in the way. I'm not arguing, I'm just asking.

Further thoughts on the multiple electrode mindset ... Scott stated something along the lines of "A triple ground or quad ground electrodes more than double the chance of spark propogation and gives a larger spark for a given size gap." which I just cannot wrap my mind around as hard as I've tried. Again, I'm not arguing, I'm just asking but simply technically speaking, multiple electrodes, no matter how many of them, cannot "double the chance of spark propogation" ... that is physically impossible because the spark is only going to go to ONE of those multiple electrodes. It will not and can not ever arc to two or even three or four electrodes at the same time ... it will only ever arc to ONE of them and probably 99.9999% of the time it will arc to whichever one is longest/closest to the center electrode. As the electrodes themselves erode the arc will simply rotate with the longest/closest ONE of those multiple electrodes time after time after time. Additionally with 100% propagation (ie never one single misfire with my specific setup) how do you "increase the chances of spark propagation". Furthermore as far as I can wrap my mind around, the multiple electrodes cannot "give a larger spark for a given size gap" as Scott stated, that is also physically impossible ... the spark will be the same size between the same size gap ... there's no way to make a larger spark without more voltage, and/or less resistance in the plug.

As far as I can tell then, the only real reason to have a multiple electrode plug is longer life; basically you have three times or four times as much side electrode to wear through. Additionally the only real reason to have an Iridium or Platinum plug, other than the higher heat range ability, is longer life; the much harder and much more heat tolerate metalurgy of Iridium or Platinum simply means that it takes a lot longer to erode the electrodes.

I guess I'm getting back to the performance question, and again I'm asking, I'm not arguing, but how exactly can an Iridium, Platinum or Multiple-Electrode Copper plug "outperform" what I've so stubbornly used all along exempting longevity alone as the answer? Is it something that is measurable or observable?

Lastly, on the one thing accepted by all (including my stubborn self all along ) which is the longer life of Iridium, Platinum or Multiple-Electrode Copper plugs Scott suggested pulling a plug every 10K, checking it and if it is good put the plug back in and if it is bad replace it. Well, that seems somewhat strange thing; I mean I know a gasket seat plug can be reseated a couple times, maybe even a few times but with this way of checking plug life you might reseat the plugs 6 to 8 times "if yer lucky" and how will that plug respond and reseat. I know it is old fashioned for me to say so but I wouldn't want to remove and reseat a plug so many times for fear of cracking the ceramic or messing up the gasket seat. So I get back to my method of using one old particular plug which works incredibly well with no fouling no misfiring no problems, which I change every 10K and feel fine about. Why is it advisable to go from that to a plug that costs 6x more and that I have to remove and reseat until I determine its done finally? IOW, in what specific way other than longer life will any of these outperform my tried and true BKPR7ES's? Again, I'm not arguing, I'm asking and I'm all ears now. Thanks. This is indeed pretty cool stuff.

Okay, before this goes to bottom of page 4 again I thought that I'd try to answer my own musings here.

In regards to the multi point plugs, my thoughts on that seem to be totally verified by another snippit I found on NGK's site:

"""Multi Power Spark Plugs -
NGK Multi Power Spark Plugs feature multiple ground electrodes for extra-long life in a variety of applications.

Spark plugs wear out when the sharp edges of the ground electrode round off. Therefore, multiple ground electrodes provide additional surfaces for the spark to travel to, extending the plug's effective life.

Multi Power plugs are not for all applications, as they can tend to quench the spark, or hamper the ability of the flame to grow from the initial ignition point. However, the multiple ground electrode configuration can help alleviate a number of problems, including hard starting, excessive fouling or misfiring. They are also effective for vehicles with very high ignition system voltages and/or combustion chamber temperatures.

Remember that Multi Power spark plugs, or any other multiple electrode type spark plug, cannot provide more than one spark at a time. The primary purpose of the multiple electrode spark plug is to achieve greater spark plug durability and reliability over the life of the plug."""


So, this seems to speak very specifcally to both the "indexing issues" I mentioned as well as the "spark propagation propaganda" I mentioned and it seems to verify the points that I made on those two things for sure and for sure negates what Scott was saying.

So to return to the three questions I asked about above.
1. I don't think that the difference btwn ISO length and JIS length is that much of an issue but I'll still stick with JIS plugs mostly so that the plug wires fit well and will seal well at the top of our valve covers. That then eliminates all the EIX plugs I have read on reference charts so far from NGK.
2. The .8mm gap that all these plugs come with isn't an issue basically because as Bosch, Champion, NGK and others allow, they can be regapped however I will always preferrably avoid regapping precious metal plugs. So unless I find something with the .6mm I want to run and have always run successfully, I would want to find the equivalents of these offerings in .6mm gap.
3. I asked again and the higher heat range (6 ) is really not recommended by Safari for the turbo, they specifically told me that 7 is preferred especially as extra boost is being applied. I'm now at 10psi and my AFR's tell me that I can go higher still so I definitely won't be working in 6 heat range plugs so again I would want to find the equivalents with 7 heat range.

Lastly on heading of longevity. I just think that it is silly to remove only one plug every 10K, check it and replace it six, seven, eight or whatever times till it looks like it is used up. I've always considered spark plugs special "internal indicators" and I can read them really well. I'd rather just read them and read all of them over every 10K as I've always done, replace them at the same time and call it good. Pulling just #1 doesn't tell me anything at all about what's happening with #2 - #6 and besides that, #6 is really the one to look at with the way the EGR system affects that cylinder, and since #6 is definitely the hardest to change, once you've changed that one, you might as well have changed all of them.

So, we get to the end of this thread and find that initially two of the five plugs Scott recommended were not even resistor plugs (see how that helps your ECU when you plug them in!), all of them were the wrong heat range (and are actually considered dangerous by Safari), all of them were the "wrong" gap (no big biggie there though), one of them was also the "wrong" length (again no big biggie) and the multipoints according to the actual manufacturers do nothing for performance, can actually hinder with indexing issues, and do nothing for spark propagation, spark size or anything at all the Scott suggested! A great exercise here huh!?!

Again I ask about and return to performance, as far as I can conclude the only way that the precious metal plugs can possibly help performance (not longevity, only performance) is by having such small and such sharp electrodes which do help with having strong spark. However, as I've already noted without having any single misfire ever using the right plugs and the right gaps, I clearly don't need a stronger spark (at least and until I start scoring some misfires). So I again ask about performance, are any of these plugs going to give me more performance as some here suggested? Is it going to be observable and measurable. If not, what's wrong with the plugs that Safari recommends again? Thanks.

 

[Ebag333]

So I again ask about performance, are any of these plugs going to give me more performance as some here suggested? Is it going to be observable and measurable. If not, what's wrong with the plugs that Safari recommends again? Thanks.

Scotts comments aside, I don't think anyone was really suggesting that the copper plugs you were using were bad. Heck, even Scott said that it's obvious they work just fine.

I think the original point that got lost was that platinum/iridium plugs would give you equal performance with longer life.

I think it's a case of where after a certain point, you simply don't see any more real life benefit from the theoretical potential.

 

[turbocruiser]

Scotts comments aside, I don't think anyone was really suggesting that the copper plugs you were using were bad. Heck, even Scott said that it's obvious they work just fine.

I think the original point that got lost was that platinum/iridium plugs would give you equal performance with longer life.

I think it's a case of where after a certain point, you simply don't see any more real life benefit from the theoretical potential.

Scott's comments aside, I absolutely agree!

 

[Kernal]

Anyone have experience with the Denso Iridium IK16 plugs?

 

[landtank]

I'm bringing this back to the top as I need to source some plugs for my engine. I started looking around for the BCPR7ES plugs and they have been discontinued. So now the hunt begins on looking for a replacement to that plug.

While searching I came across a Supra forum and they talked about the discontinuing of that plug and it getting replaced by #6282, the BCPR7ES is #3330.

Along that thread several people mentioned having issues with that plug and went with a Denso IK22 plug with very good results.

So the question for those with a better handle on this stuff than me is, anything obviously wrong with trying that Denso Iridium plug?

 

[turbocruiser]

I'm bringing this back to the top as I need to source some plugs for my engine. I started looking around for the BCPR7ES plugs and they have been discontinued. So now the hunt begins on looking for a replacement to that plug.

While searching I came across a Supra forum and they talked about the discontinuing of that plug and it getting replaced by #6282, the BCPR7ES is #3330.

Along that thread several people mentioned having issues with that plug and went with a Denso IK22 plug with very good results.

So the question for those with a better handle on this stuff than me is, anything obviously wrong with trying that Denso Iridium plug?

Luckily I have dozens of these old designation 3330's . As far as I know the 6282's are the same thing just different designation; NGK is known to do this from time to time. Some people have had problems with the 3330 / 6282 related to rapid fouling. In this case this issue is likely not needing a cooler plug and fouling it fast and any 7 range plug in these instances would prolly foul pretty fast too. I have never had a problem fouling the 3330 / 6282 and think they work really well for the turbo'd 1FZFE. Two friends who have wildly suped up supras use the 6097 with what they term awesome results. You might want to work on those too, but, I still think the 3330 / 6282 will work wonderfully well for you. Whatever you do I suggest starting with a 7 range plug based on Air Power Systems/Safari Turbo Systems' recommendation for the 1FZFE in FI mode. Hope that helps.

 

[landtank]

Thanks Shaun, are you sure our stock plug is a JIS plug? I only ask because the Denso site lists the IK20 as a direct replacement which is an ISO plug.

Now they do have JIS plugs available and a step cooler than the IK20 would be the IQ22, cooler and JIS.

Also about gaping to .6mm, how does that help us on a boosted system?

From looking at the Denso charts, closing the gaping allows you to run a cooler plug and from their charts a plug with a heat range of 24 would be the right choice for a .6mm gap.

I'm only focusing on Denso since I've been able to find the material to revue on line, if you have a link to the NGK charts I'd appreciate it.

 

[turbocruiser]

Thanks Shaun, are you sure our stock plug is a JIS plug? I only ask because the Denso site lists the IK20 as a direct replacement which is an ISO plug.

Now they do have JIS plugs available and a step cooler than the IK20 would be the IQ22, cooler and JIS.

Also about gaping to .6mm, how does that help us on a boosted system?

From looking at the Denso charts, closing the gaping allows you to run a cooler plug and from their charts a plug with a heat range of 24 would be the right choice for a .6mm gap.

I'm only focusing on Denso since I've been able to find the material to revue on line, if you have a link to the NGK charts I'd appreciate it.

The original version of the old NGK BKR5EYA (one of two factory spec'd sparkplugs, the other one is Nippon Denso K16R-U) was JIS. The newer version now is ISO to accomodate more manufacturers most likely. As I may have mentioned earlier, this designation probably doesn't matter much and they all will work with our wires I just personally prefer the JIS cause I've concluded (my own personal opinion) that the tip really sits tight to the top with our plug wires. As far as the gapping I sort of settled at .65 for the last two changes and really like that level more but the purpose to gapping, at least as far as for what i want, isn't to correlate to heat range really but to account for additional power. I think I posted much more on that on the old thread which was deleted. To summarize though it is pretty well proven that you reduce the gap to account for additional power I think the formula for this is roughly to reduce by .1mm for every extra 50 HP but that is from my really rusty memory. Anyway, hope this helps and again I think the heat range is much more important than the ISO/JIS distinction. HTH.

 

[cruiserdan]

Rick don't rule out the Turbo MR2 plug. Just a thought.


By the way, Toyota is fine with altering the gap on a platinum plug that has not been run. They say do not alter the gap on a used plug.

 

[turbocruiser]

By the way, Toyota is fine with altering the gap on a platinum plug that has not been run. They say do not alter the gap on a used plug.

Hmm, that is terrific info; I had always thought regapping a platinum plug was a "no-no". Dan do you know what is the heat range of the MR2 plug? I'm assuming its a 6 but I cannot really remember. Thanks.

 

[NKP Garage]

Hmm, that is terrific info; I had always thought regapping a platinum plug was a "no-no". Dan do you know what is the heat range of the MR2 plug? I'm assuming its a 6 but I cannot really remember. Thanks.

Yes, the OEM MR2 turbo plug is a 6 heat range.