SM420 -> 2F Clutch issue (1 Viewer)

[Hardcastle]

Hey guys. I just finished up a 2F motor rebuild for my 78 FJ40 and decided to pair it with an SM420. Everything seemed to go together easily without problems but my clutch is making a crazy loud high pitch squeal as I push in the pedal or let out the pedal. If the clutch is completely in or completely out there is no noise. I wouldn’t claim to be an expert but I’ve done a few clutch replacements and have never had an issue. Here are all the clutch parts I have in the cruiser:

EBI plate adapter, index ring
Nose cone sleeve
10.5” Chevy clutch disk
3 speed bell housing
4 speed clutch fork, slave cylinder, picot ball, etc
4 speed fly wheel (resurfaced)
4 speed pressure plate (original)
New pilot bearing (202RRE)
New Throw out bearing (Timken 613008)

Normally based on these symptoms I would assume the throw out bearing is bad and I suppose it could be. It is brand new but maybe it was bad to begin with? It seemed to spin fine out of the truck and still seems to spin fine inside the truck. With the inspection cover removed the clutch appears to operate as it should. Clutch fork pivots pushing the bearing into the pressure plate and the clutch disk spins freely.

Any thoughts on what I can check for before removing the transmission? What should I look for after removal? With everything being new other than the pressure plate I’m not sure what I’m going to find. Thanks for the help.

 

[Pin_Head]

Throw out bearing installed backwards? Pull the cover off and take a peek. The rounded side faces the pressure plate.

 

[Hardcastle]

Throw out bearing installed backwards? Pull the cover off and take a peek. The rounded side faces the pressure plate.

Hmm. it's possible. I'll take a look at that after work today.

If anyone else has ideas let me know. I won't be home for several hours and if i have a bunch of things to look at and diagnose that would be awesome. I want to get this fixed soon!

 

[B y r o n]

I'm curious as to why you chose to use a 10.5" Chevy disc instead of the Toyota disc since all the other clutch parts were Toyota?

 

[Hardcastle]

I'm curious as to why you chose to use a 10.5" Chevy disc instead of the Toyota disc since all the other clutch parts were Toyota?

Truthfully i'm not sure. All the write ups i found on this swap say to use the chevy disk and i never questioned it. The chevy clutch disk splines match the muncie sm420 tranny output shaft. Maybe that's why.

 

[Hardcastle]

Throw out bearing installed backwards? Pull the cover off and take a peek. The rounded side faces the pressure plate.

Looks like the throw out bearing is installed correctly. The more rounded side is facing the pressure plate.

Any other thoughts before I pull the transmission out?

 

[too tall]

Maybe the disk itself is in backwards ?

 

[Hardcastle]

Maybe the disk itself is in backwards ?

I'll check that when I pull the tranny but I'm nearly positive it's in correctly. It was labelled "fly wheel side" and "pressure plate side". I also read the clutch disk wouldn't disengage if installed backwards. When I press the pedal my disk spins freely.

Also, the throw out bearing spins by hand without issue. No noise, no binding.

Keep the suggestions coming. I appreciate it.

 

[pardion]

I'll check that when I pull the tranny but I'm nearly positive it's in correctly. It was labelled "fly wheel side" and "pressure plate side". I also read the clutch disk wouldn't disengage if installed backwards. When I press the pedal my disk spins freely.

Also, the throw out bearing spins by hand without issue. No noise, no binding.

Keep the suggestions coming. I appreciate it.

This is a new one...............you did not mention if you spaced your pilot bearing out from the crankshaft to accommodate the SM420's input shaft being shorter than the Land Cruiser's shaft. The rest of the package seems correct. HTH John

 

[Hardcastle]

This is a new one...............you did not mention if you spaced your pilot bearing out from the crankshaft to accommodate the SM420's input shaft being shorter than the Land Cruiser's shaft. The rest of the package seems correct. HTH John

I did not space the pilot bearing. Maybe that's the issue? The pilot bearing I used had a longer inner race. I assumed that was the recommended bearing so it would accommodate the shorter shaft.

What should I space it with? How much spacing? Thanks.

 

[pardion]

O

I did not space the pilot bearing. Maybe that's the issue? The pilot bearing I used had a longer inner race. I assumed that was the recommended bearing so it would accommodate the shorter shaft.

What should I space it with? How much spacing? Thanks.

In the old day's 2, 1/2" washers were put into the pilot hole then the pilot bearing. AA made some longer pilot bushings. Check with Georg at Valley Hybrids, or Mudraks Cruisers.

 

[Hardcastle]

O
In the old day's 2, 1/2" washers were put into the pilot hole then the pilot bearing. AA made some longer pilot bushings. Check with Georg at Valley Hybrids, or Mudraks Cruisers.

Thanks. When I pull it out i'll take a look. re-reading a few write ups on this swap and I think the 202rre bearing i used does not require any spacers but that's something i'll look at when i pull it out. I happen to have a bushing that will fit, i just figured the bearing was better so i bought it.

Any other thoughts? I've been re-thinking the whole setup and have one hunch. While mating the tranny to the bell housing i had about 1/4" gap but otherwise aligned ok. I ended up threading the bolts in and tightening it up. I kind of doubt it but it's possible i wasn't aligned properly and the input shaft damaged the pilot bearing. I would assume if this was the case i'd always hear the noise, not just when using the clutch. Other than that i'm out of ideas. hopefully it's obvious once i remove it all.

 

[Poser]

If you used the 202rre bearing, that has the 'longer nose' on it,(compared to traditional pilot bearings) then that should not be your issue.


If the clutch disc was installed backwards, the clutch would not release.

How about those little spring clips on the throw out bearing hub; they retain the hub to the release fork. Are they new?

Chock the wheels, remove the inspection cover on the flywheel housing, don eye and hearing protection and have someone start the truck and manipulate the clutch mechanism while you watch from below.

The kind of noise you are talking about should be obvious.

 

[78fj40mg]

Did you adjust the clutch?
Check your FSM for settings.

 

[78fj40mg]

I did not space the pilot bearing. Maybe that's the issue? The pilot bearing I used had a longer inner race. I assumed that was the recommended bearing so it would accommodate the shorter shaft.

What should I space it with? How much spacing? Thanks.

I just installed a new clutch here are some pics of how it looks:

The pilot bearing should look like this

 

[Poser]

78fj40mg-

You are correct; that is what a STOCK pilot bearing looks like.

IT IS NOT what the pilot bearing for an SM420 conversion looks like.

This is the pilot bearing I use for SM420 conversions.

 

[Hardcastle]

If you used the 202rre bearing, that has the 'longer nose' on it,(compared to traditional pilot bearings) then that should not be your issue.


If the clutch disc was installed backwards, the clutch would not release.

How about those little spring clips on the throw out bearing hub; they retain the hub to the release fork. Are they new?

Chock the wheels, remove the inspection cover on the flywheel housing, don eye and hearing protection and have someone start the truck and manipulate the clutch mechanism while you watch from below.

The kind of noise you are talking about should be obvious.

- I used the 202rre so i should be good here. After dropping the tranny it appears to be in good shape. spins freely, no noise, not wallowed out, etc.

- Based on that feedback as well as other posts i should be good with the clutch disk being installed correctly. It is releasing.

-those little clips that hold the bearing in place are used. can I just buy those new without an entire clutch kit? They seemed to be in good enough shape but I would say new is better.

 

[Hardcastle]

Did you adjust the clutch?
Check your FSM for settings.

yeah, i did. Then just trying things i adjusted it all over the place. noise was still happening.

 

[Hardcastle]

78FJ40mg - thank you. Mine looks the same minus the pilot bearing like Poser mentioned.

My garage time is limited lately but I did have a few hours to drop the transmission.

Pilot bearing seemed fine. Spins freely with no noise and no physical damage.
Throw out bearing is the same. seated properly on the bearing retainer, no damage, no noise.

I ran out of time before family stuff happened and i needed to get inside. I'll pull off the pressure plate and take a look at everything else more closely but so far i see nothing out of place. Unfortunately with my schedule the next few days this will probably have to wait until saturday night. I'm stumped. I appreciate all the feedback.

I drove the cruiser down the block before tranny removal and had no noise while driving. Just while engaging and releasing the clutch pedal.

 

[pbgbottle]

those pics look like they are showing a 4spd bellhousing .not a 3spd bellhousing ? just asking ..