Does the track width of the SAS have to be that wide to fit correctly?
Sas?
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Does the track width of the SAS have to be that wide to fit correctly?
Christo could you elaborate on this a little more?
In what type of situations would this kind of SAS conversion be needed vs. another 100 with 35’s, ARB’s, 4.88’s and Marlin Crawler gears? I am trying to understand why this conversion would be necessity? And no I am not talking about hardcore rock crawling. A 100 series is the wrong tool for this type of wheeling. You can buy a fully built 1st gen 4Runner for the same price as this conversion. So when does this become a real world necessity and not a want?
I suspect so...given where the coil springs reside (more outboard relative to an 80...or so it appears).
I'm sure Christo has a better answer, but "want" is probably the #1 reason just like you're hinting. The SAS 100 built for the Alaska Cruiser Trek is a pretty good example of the right reasons I bet. But that isn't a $5k job. Stronger front end, easy to fit 35's+ (req'd for that trip), less parts to fail, easy to fix when done with factory Toyota parts. http://www.sleeoffroad.com/project_vehicles/100SAS-PAUL/100sas.pdf.pdf
And the fact that they are so big and take up a lot of room under there. If coilovers were in play, you could save some room, but what's the next tradeoff then?
RockJock82
Sometimes you have to kick a little A$$
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A Dana 60 front is plenty strong... I guarantee it wouldn't break with 37's lol. A 10k front diff is bling for sure and I get the angle of I don't want it coming back so let's use everything new. Doing it right once is the only way...
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The "suggestions" have been it cant be done without using new, and scarce toyota parts.
I've always preferred to upgrade things instead of severely limiting the vehicle to products from a particular brand. These swaps may be new to the 100 platform, but is old hat for everything else. I drive by Blue Torch Fab almost everyday and see the exact same type of swaps he's asking about. Offroad Design even makes bolt on kits to install ford high pinion dana 60 axles in late model trucks. Cranking torsion bars and installing new springs for a small lift isn't exactly complex stuff. I think a typical 3 link kit on a kingpin dana 60 would work well in these trucks. I do not see the need to tell someone something cannot be done just because they may not have the knowledge to do so.
Trunk Monkey
Moderator
So I finally had 10 minutes to go through a try to clean up this thread, keeping it to tech related to a solid axle swap on a 100 and removing things from "i'm posting and not even contributing" all the way over to how to run your business.
Please keep future posts related to the topic before the whole thing gets deleted. Thanks.
Please keep future posts related to the topic before the whole thing gets deleted. Thanks.
Lol. Poor Christo... He explicitly states they aren't ever providing a kit for this...haha. What power do the masses have if they should demand such a kit?
Sent from my iPhone using IH8MUD while navigating gnarly trail. Typos are inherent.
Christo was the one who said "group buy".
Edit: I am seriously interested in an SAS. I don't want a do-it-yourself kit, because I lack the technical skills, tools, and shop to do it myself. If Christo is even half-serious about a group buy of Hundy SAS's, and he'd do a bunch of them at a more budget-friendly price than $20k, I'd like to be considered as a serious maybe.
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I think we're all thinking about this conversion like Slee or another business would. As a DIY project, it can be a work in progress. Just look at all the stages the Spressowagon's gone through.
Yes, it costs more in the end, but what you learn along the way could be more useful.
So a Dana 60, coilovers, and a 3-link, etc might be stage 1. Get that working. See what works and what doesn't' and then revise. I know that's costly and sloppy and not how we like to do things. But such is the nature moving from bolt on mods to custom vehicle modifications.
Jonathan Harris makes a good point about the Wagons. My wife got me a Land Cruiser heritage book for Christmas. We're all kind of in denial about this fact, but the wagons (60, 62, 80, 100, 200) are designed to be the best compromise between comfort and reliable harsh condition transport of humans. The engineers aren't worried about the things we try to modify them to do.
Yes, it costs more in the end, but what you learn along the way could be more useful.
So a Dana 60, coilovers, and a 3-link, etc might be stage 1. Get that working. See what works and what doesn't' and then revise. I know that's costly and sloppy and not how we like to do things. But such is the nature moving from bolt on mods to custom vehicle modifications.
Jonathan Harris makes a good point about the Wagons. My wife got me a Land Cruiser heritage book for Christmas. We're all kind of in denial about this fact, but the wagons (60, 62, 80, 100, 200) are designed to be the best compromise between comfort and reliable harsh condition transport of humans. The engineers aren't worried about the things we try to modify them to do.
The R&D for a SAS is what we don't have, hence the reason I aimed "kit" at Christo earlier in the thread. As far off as it may be, its still fun to think about and discuss.
Bite off the cost of a kit one day, six months later build an axle, few months after that a steering box, then shocks, coils, and so on. After all the parts are there, all that's left is install, something I wouldn't do but I know a shop or two that would give it a go.
This approach seems more realistic to me, probably much cheaper to do as well.
I hope you give it a go RockJock, maybe one day I can see it in action.
Bite off the cost of a kit one day, six months later build an axle, few months after that a steering box, then shocks, coils, and so on. After all the parts are there, all that's left is install, something I wouldn't do but I know a shop or two that would give it a go.
This approach seems more realistic to me, probably much cheaper to do as well.
I hope you give it a go RockJock, maybe one day I can see it in action.
Yup. Everything else aside, the big questions seem to be what axle, housing, diff, what link set up, how do make ABS keep working, and how to keep 5 lug hubs.
There are lots of other issues to address, but those are the three that seem to have everyone at a stand still.
There are lots of other issues to address, but those are the three that seem to have everyone at a stand still.
ABS sensors can be adapted and ditch the 5 lug wheels for 8 lug units. Ditch the rear for a 14 bolt with coil buckets and mounts welded on, shorten the rear shaft etc.
the dana 60 is 69.5" wms to wms. the stock 100 is 63.80". the 2.85" difference a side can be dealt with with backspacing.
http://www.billavista.com/tech/Articles/Dana_60_Front_Axle_Bible/
the old fourwheeler article on slee's swap has nice pictures of sleeving the frame and building new motor mounts. I cant blame him for not wanting to produce a kit for it.
http://www.fourwheeler.com/how-to/0802-4wd-toyota-land-cruiser-axle-upgrade/
The sensor is the easy part, the reluctor ring would be a bit more challenging. Does anybody know if it has the same pulse as the 80 system?
I thought the 100 wms was wider than that.
I thought the 100 wms was wider than that.
^ I presume this is one of the reasons Christo and Co. used 105 outers.
Can you pull the ABS fuse in these trucks like you can in others?
or could a reluctor ring relocater kit be used if modified to work on another axle?
http://www.marks4wd.com/mfk2045.html
http://www.marks4wd.com/downloads/dl/file/id/17/instructions_mfk2045.pdf
whatever extremelandcuriser is claims to sell kits:
http://extremelandcruiser.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=96&products_id=216
The Euro 100 club guys are working on a swap:
http://www.landcruiserclub.net/forums/showthread.php/42125-SAS-100-SERIES
A lot of tundra guys have swapped dana axles over the years:
http://www.tundrasolutions.com/forums/1gen-tundra/30106-saced-tundra-5-build-thread-5/
or could a reluctor ring relocater kit be used if modified to work on another axle?
http://www.marks4wd.com/mfk2045.html
http://www.marks4wd.com/downloads/dl/file/id/17/instructions_mfk2045.pdf
whatever extremelandcuriser is claims to sell kits:
http://extremelandcruiser.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=96&products_id=216
The Euro 100 club guys are working on a swap:
http://www.landcruiserclub.net/forums/showthread.php/42125-SAS-100-SERIES
A lot of tundra guys have swapped dana axles over the years:
http://www.tundrasolutions.com/forums/1gen-tundra/30106-saced-tundra-5-build-thread-5/
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That's interesting, it would seem that the 80 system can provide the correct input since they both use the same kit.
I am assuming that most of the tundra SAS's, as well as Tacoma SAS's, etc eliminate the ABS system as part of the swap.
I would guess that 105 outers are hard to get and expensive?
So back to my earlier post, custom front house (diamond or ruff-stuff) with a 98+ 32 spline 9.5" diff, custom 32 spline inners (from nitro) and 80 knuckles -> out. custom rear house (diamond or ruff-stuff) with a 98+ 32 spline 9.5" diff, custom 32 spline axles (from nitro) and 80 FF ends. Keep it all 6 lug but build it ~69" WMS.
To test the $5k budget:
Pair of donor 80 axles ~$1,000
Sell 80 diffs ~$(500)
Additional 98+ Rear Diff ~$350
Pair of Ruff Stuff Housings $1,340
Custom Inners FR & RR ~1,000??
Rod Ends & Link Materials (for front) ~$500
RHD Steering Arm $140
Steering Linkage (1 ton) $250
Rebuilt Steering Box $450
Front Springs and Shocks (OME) ~$400
80 Series Spring/ Shock Buckets $?
That's $4,930+ without any axle rebuild parts or re-gear, lockers, etc.
You can shave ~800 off of that if you were to use a pair of 1 tons that cost $1,200, the other issue is now you have a centered rear axle and have to buy new diff flanges to bolt up the driveshafts.
You could also probably save some money by leaving the rear alone, & source 105 series (or later 70 series from CA) 5 lug front hubs
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Landcruiser-HZJ75-FZJ75-Series-Axle-Front-Hub-/310789861864
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Landcruiser-HZJ78-HZJ79-Series-Axle-Front-Hub-/310789867341
Pair of donor 80 axles ~$1,000
Sell 80 diffs ~$(500)
Additional 98+ Rear Diff ~$350
Pair of Ruff Stuff Housings $1,340
Custom Inners FR & RR ~1,000??
Rod Ends & Link Materials (for front) ~$500
RHD Steering Arm $140
Steering Linkage (1 ton) $250
Rebuilt Steering Box $450
Front Springs and Shocks (OME) ~$400
80 Series Spring/ Shock Buckets $?
That's $4,930+ without any axle rebuild parts or re-gear, lockers, etc.
You can shave ~800 off of that if you were to use a pair of 1 tons that cost $1,200, the other issue is now you have a centered rear axle and have to buy new diff flanges to bolt up the driveshafts.
You could also probably save some money by leaving the rear alone, & source 105 series (or later 70 series from CA) 5 lug front hubs
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Landcruiser-HZJ75-FZJ75-Series-Axle-Front-Hub-/310789861864
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Landcruiser-HZJ78-HZJ79-Series-Axle-Front-Hub-/310789867341
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^ The general consensus here seems to be that a 80 Series 8" front diff isn't sufficient for this swap...
It could be done with a 80 Series front diff but even before this thread was started and when I looked into this previously I eliminated the 80 front axle option possibility from my option considerations...
Not sure if one of these has been done in the USA but here is a kit using a 80 Series axle:
http://extremelandcruiser.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=96&products_id=216
It could be done with a 80 Series front diff but even before this thread was started and when I looked into this previously I eliminated the 80 front axle option possibility from my option considerations...
Not sure if one of these has been done in the USA but here is a kit using a 80 Series axle:
http://extremelandcruiser.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=96&products_id=216
That kit kind of looks like it falls in the same category as that Chevy a couple posts up. At that height I'd like a much wider track... cool that they offer a kit though. On second look maybe the flares are making it look worse than it is, or maybe it's the whole body kit lol.
Actually let's just all get this: http://extremelandcruiser.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=96&products_id=184
Actually let's just all get this: http://extremelandcruiser.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=96&products_id=184
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