Builds Salt wagon My first fj40 (build) (7 Viewers)

Roastchestnuts

TLCA #28675 Salt wagon Fj40
Joined
Oct 15, 2019
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681
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Ocracoke island North Carolina
This is the wrong part number for plugs. There is a plug for the non-adjuster spots, and a plug for the adjusters, and they are different, iirc, mid '70's FJ40. Drum brakes are a 'crash course,' initially, but, I don't mind doing them. This is the view from the hardtop of the truck for the adjusters, in my notes. I have not made notes for the back cylinder adjusters yet.

View attachment 3185665
Thanks this will help for sure!
 

Roastchestnuts

TLCA #28675 Salt wagon Fj40
Joined
Oct 15, 2019
Messages
681
Location
Ocracoke island North Carolina
Not related to breaks but does anybody know where to get some vinyl that goes on the step? Or any input on what you used? I am tired of looking at mine that is all rusty. I think after the breaks, my next mini project is to clean those up and put some black vinyl in.
 

Skreddy

SILVER Star
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Stanwood, WA
For the brakes, if it’s still soft, there’s air. Many a cruiser owner has bled a gallon+ of DOT 3 and still had air. Here’s what I’d do before any more bleeding:
From your first pics, it’s still single reservoir master cylinder with no power booster: is this still correct?
Check the firewall at the master and make sure there’s no signs of fluid leaking on firewall.
Check inside (pedal side) of firewall where pushrod goes to master to make sure there’s no fluid.
Next, check the pushrod. Pull the pedal return spring off, is there any “wiggle” in the pushrod? There should be just a small gap between the pushrod and master cylinder cup. If no gap, adjust. I don’t remember the spec but 1/64”-1/32” is plenty. Not looking for much, just ensuring the master piston is returning all the way. (If it wasn’t returning all the way, rebleed master after adjusting)

Ok, no leaks at master, pushrod is correct (you put the return spring back on pedal), now move to wheels. Run all wheel cylinders at every wheel tight start with 1 cylinder on 1 wheel, run it until you cannot move the wheel at all, then back it off until you can just barely move the wheel with all your might and leave it there. Now adjust the other cylinder on the same wheel until you cannot move the wheel at all. Done! Don’t back it off! You now know those 2 cylinders are both at basically their max adjustment to the drum so when you pump the brakes you are creating immediate pressure in the system and not needing to move cylinder pistons first. Now, repeat that to the other 3 wheels.

Now, start the bleeding process. Check the reservoir often! Don’t let it get below 1/2-1/3 full no matter what! Assistant pumps and holds pedal, you crack the bleeder 1/4 turn then tighten back up (while assistant is still holding), you say “ok!”, they release and pump/hold again and repeat. Start from the farthest wheel and work your way to closest, then repeat. Farthest wheel away is not physically farthest from master, but which wheel has the most line between it and master.

When done, back off adjusters for proper drag and boom, done.
 

Skreddy

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Forgot to add, before bleeding, check every fitting in the system for leaks. Not a bad idea to pull drums and check inside for wheel cylinder leaks.
Did you replace all the soft lines? They can look good on the outside but be swelled almost closed internally causing problems when bleeding (or braking at all!)
 

Roastchestnuts

TLCA #28675 Salt wagon Fj40
Joined
Oct 15, 2019
Messages
681
Location
Ocracoke island North Carolina
For the brakes, if it’s still soft, there’s air. Many a cruiser owner has bled a gallon+ of DOT 3 and still had air. Here’s what I’d do before any more bleeding:
From your first pics, it’s still single reservoir master cylinder with no power booster: is this still correct?
Check the firewall at the master and make sure there’s no signs of fluid leaking on firewall.
Check inside (pedal side) of firewall where pushrod goes to master to make sure there’s no fluid.
Next, check the pushrod. Pull the pedal return spring off, is there any “wiggle” in the pushrod? There should be just a small gap between the pushrod and master cylinder cup. If no gap, adjust. I don’t remember the spec but 1/64”-1/32” is plenty. Not looking for much, just ensuring the master piston is returning all the way. (If it wasn’t returning all the way, rebleed master after adjusting)

Ok, no leaks at master, pushrod is correct (you put the return spring back on pedal), now move to wheels. Run all wheel cylinders at every wheel tight start with 1 cylinder on 1 wheel, run it until you cannot move the wheel at all, then back it off until you can just barely move the wheel with all your might and leave it there. Now adjust the other cylinder on the same wheel until you cannot move the wheel at all. Done! Don’t back it off! You now know those 2 cylinders are both at basically their max adjustment to the drum so when you pump the brakes you are creating immediate pressure in the system and not needing to move cylinder pistons first. Now, repeat that to the other 3 wheels.

Now, start the bleeding process. Check the reservoir often! Don’t let it get below 1/2-1/3 full no matter what! Assistant pumps and holds pedal, you crack the bleeder 1/4 turn then tighten back up (while assistant is still holding), you say “ok!”, they release and pump/hold again and repeat. Start from the farthest wheel and work your way to closest, then repeat. Farthest wheel away is not physically farthest from master, but which wheel has the most line between it and master.

When done, back off adjusters for proper drag and boom, done.
Thanks for the info! Yeah its just a single master with no booster. No fluid leaking pedal side. Some fluid outside but thats because I spilled poring it in. but Ill double check that after work/keep an eye on that when I bleed again.

I think where I am messing up is the middle paragraph you have. why I am going back today and adjusting to where the wheel will not move. Then I will start the bleeding process again. Then after I am all done adjusting the proper drag. I did learn the first round of bleeding that I need to add fluid after one drum has been bleed. the fluid level gets to just under half full when I have finished one drum.
 

Roastchestnuts

TLCA #28675 Salt wagon Fj40
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Messages
681
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Ocracoke island North Carolina
Don’t forget the ramps on the cylinders. I think that was the biggest revelation in the thread I linked you.
Just to be clear the ramps on the cylinders are? I assumed they were the metal on the outside that the adjusters used to click into place. But I could be wrong on that. and thats why we dont assume haha...
 
Joined
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35th parallel north
Ramps, Adjuster slots. They draw the groove in the screw as a section-diagram/illustration.

Aftermarket, skip the milled-in ramp / "tapered slots", it is not at an angle on top of the screw. Sometimes shoes don't fully fit in slot width of the new wheel cylinder screws, just barely. I had the original cylinders, so I harvested the ramped adjuster screws for the new equipment.

ramps.jpg
 

middlecalf

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Sweet, Idaho
Running board info
But I used this, also made matching floor mat. All cruisers should have some diamond plate 😂.
Amazon product.

Ramps are on the top of the adjusters, in the slot where the brake pad rests. Hi side is to the outside, note the small gap. If installed wrong or adjusters don’t have ramps then gap will be significantly larger, and brake functionality will be compromised as @wngrog points out. See pic with 3rd grade annotation 😂.
64FA439A-B22E-4EAD-99EA-4750366B8D4F.jpeg
 
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Roastchestnuts

TLCA #28675 Salt wagon Fj40
Joined
Oct 15, 2019
Messages
681
Location
Ocracoke island North Carolina
Ramps, Adjuster slots. They draw the groove in the screw as a section-diagram/illustration.

Aftermarket, skip the milled-in ramp / "tapered slots", it is not at an angle on top of the screw. Sometimes shoes don't fully fit in slot width of the new wheel cylinder screws, just barely. I had the original cylinders, so I harvested the ramped adjuster screws for the new equipment.

View attachment 3185777
Humm this makes sense now! thank you! Ill have to check the old ones to see if they have ramps. I did not notice this on the new ones. I am planning on taking a drum off this afternoon to check everything and at least get my head around witch way to adjust and Ill look and check it out.
 

Roastchestnuts

TLCA #28675 Salt wagon Fj40
Joined
Oct 15, 2019
Messages
681
Location
Ocracoke island North Carolina
Running board info
But I used this, also made matching floor mat. All cruisers should have some diamond plate 😂.
Amazon product.

Ramps are on the top of the adjusters, in the slot where the brake pad rests. Hi side is to the outside, note the small gap. If installed wrong or adjusters don’t have ramps then gap will be significantly larger, and brake functionality will be compromised as @wngrog points out. See pic with 3rd grade annotation 😂.
View attachment 3185795

This makes way more since to me now! thank you! and I teach a 3rd grade later today. I think you got them beat ;). Ill Check that out for sure when I get done today. this Hopfully by next weekend Ill have some breaks haha. I did not even think to look at amazon for the vinyl. I just found some of the white diamond pattern. Amazon product
 
Joined
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Messages
641
Location
Seattle
Regarding your brakes, if you can swing it, pick up a pressure bleeder. It turns bleeding into a one man job, you'll know immediately if you have a leak anywhere, and you are virtually guaranteed to eliminate all the air in the system just by the nature of it being a pressure bleeder.

I picked one up along with a cap adapter kit a while back and it's more than paid for itself.
 

Roastchestnuts

TLCA #28675 Salt wagon Fj40
Joined
Oct 15, 2019
Messages
681
Location
Ocracoke island North Carolina
Regarding your brakes, if you can swing it, pick up a pressure bleeder. It turns bleeding into a one man job, you'll know immediately if you have a leak anywhere, and you are virtually guaranteed to eliminate all the air in the system just by the nature of it being a pressure bleeder.

I picked one up along with a cap adapter kit a while back and it's more than paid for itself.
I am going to pick one soon for. It can be a pain to rely on sombody to help bleed breaks. I had one at one point. but its been lost over the years.
 

Roastchestnuts

TLCA #28675 Salt wagon Fj40
Joined
Oct 15, 2019
Messages
681
Location
Ocracoke island North Carolina
Quick update: After work I adjusted out the cylinders more. (on two the adjusters were was stuck from being tightened all the way down and are probably my issues.) I got one unstuck and adjusted out more. I guess I was feeling the drag on only one pad on those two drums. I am pretty sure I tightened them down instead of adjusting those two cylinders out. Because I was running out of daylight time, after I adjusted one of the two cylinders out, I just went ahead and tried to bleed them to see if I would see a difference. I got it down to one pump to the floor and the next pump was good and had breaks. Much better than the 5 or 6 pumps to have brakes before. I think on Thursday I am going to get the last cylinder adjusted out more and bleed the breaks and I am 99% sure I will have breaks. I have meetings after work tomorrow and Wednesday unfortunately so I wont get to play with again till Thursday.

Update on the ramps: none of my wheel cylinders seem to have the ramps, not on the new or the old ones. I dont know if thats normal or not.

So I think my issue that lead me to break bleeding hell was just that I needed to crank the adjusters a lot more than what I was thinking.

Some car parts also showed up at the post office! I am excited to see what it is. I cant remember what I ordered haha.
 
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Original Cruiser cylinders in the mid 70's were cast "Teq." My current one had them and was probably a low-use truck as it had all kinds of interesting original merch that has no function due to age, wheel cylinders are not going to last but a couple years, decades, ?. The ramps help keep the shoes centered and force slightly a bit to the non-pushing side. It is more important that you didn't incorrectly position the original ones if you happened to have them.

Can you finish my notes about where are the rear wheel cylinder adjusters, and what direction do they turn from birds-eye-view? Were my notes correct? I'm prepping to bleed them and adjust them if the weather holds up.
 

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