Saginaw Steering Not Centering (1 Viewer)

[RWBeringer4x4]

That shackle isn't helping a bit and could be binding that one spring to not allow the axle to rest on it's correct castor angle . Also, look very closely at the springs both fore and aft of the spring perches and make sure they aren't bent , usually pretty obvious .
Sarge

Thanks sarge,

The one in question - obviously this one is being pulled inward by the shackle, so it has to be bending, at least slightly. Not sure how to tell whether or not it is permanent without unbolting the shackle. What's the recourse there - can bent springs be "unbent" effectively, or am I looking at new springs? I'd probably be looking at replacing all 4 if that was the case, as I have no idea who made the ones currently installed...

Hey Sarge (and others),

What about that question - if a leaf spring is torqued, particularly twisted, is it shot, or can it be salvaged?

Again, not sure as the the extend of the twist in the spring (or if it will untwist itself when I remove the shackle) just trying to figure out what might need to happen!

Thanks!

 

[freewheeling frank]

My ( admittedly uneducated ) guess is that the spring is fine and the other bushing is taking up the torque from the misalignment.

Extended shackles in front will reduce camber, I believe, so be prepared for that.

 

[RWBeringer4x4]

My ( admittedly uneducated ) guess is that the spring is fine and the other bushing is taking up the torque from the misalignment.

Hoping you're right! I'm not even getting any sag from the leafs in the rear yet, so I'd like to keep running these for a while yet.

Extended shackles in front will reduce camber, I believe, so be prepared for that.

This is correct - I'll be installing shims regardless to compensate for the power steering, so - maybe just bigger shims!

 

[RWBeringer4x4]

So, slightly depressing update - Finally had some time to tool around in the truck this afternoon and mess with the steering some more. Turns out, I have 1.5 turns left, and 2.5 turns to the right...Which causes me to bottom out against the tie tod ends. Loud "popping" ensues which I'm assuming is the truck fighting back against the maxed out steering - the whole truck lifts up.

Since I had a shop do this - it's going back. It seems to me the pitman arm was installed with the steering gear in the box 1/2 turn off center.

Before I chew out my mechanic - is there ANYTHING else that could possibly cause this, ie: during alignment or something? The only reason I ask is because this is exactly the same issue I had with the setup the PO had installed. It is a full 1/2 turn (exactly) off.

Coincidence, or is something else up here? Thoughts?

 

[Senor Aguas]

In my research, I've been told that a non centered box might not want to return to center. Could be your problem.

 

[pb4ugo]

The drag link may not be adjusted correctly. Sounds like it is too long if its pushing against the pass side stops.

 

[RWBeringer4x4]

The drag link may not be adjusted correctly. Sounds like it is too long if its pushing against the pass side stops.

Please elaborate - maybe I'm just not wrapping my head around it, but -

I don't think that is it - I'm not even getting to the stops with a maximum right hand turn. The box is maxing out before I hit the stops. Only 1.5 turns that direction. The reason I think I'm maxing out the steering to the left is because I'm able to go beyond 2 turns...

 

[RWBeringer4x4]

In my research, I've been told that a non centered box might not want to return to center. Could be your problem.

Hope so! I think this could be the result of a lot of different things (potentially seized leaf spring/no caster shims/etc.) so I'll add this to the list!

 

[pb4ugo]

Please elaborate - maybe I'm just not wrapping my head around it, but -

I don't think that is it - I'm not even getting to the stops with a maximum right hand turn. The box is maxing out before I hit the stops. Only 1.5 turns that direction. The reason I think I'm maxing out the steering to the left is because I'm able to go beyond 2 turns...

OK, so in that case I'd lengthen the drag link to center the box. Keep an eye on the tre threads.

 

[RWBeringer4x4]

OK, so in that case I'd lengthen the drag link to center the box. Keep an eye on the tre threads.

Won't that then make my steering wheel off by 90 degrees? obviously I could disconnect that and then recenter it...Just still trying to wrap my head around "steering theory."

 

[pb4ugo]

Won't that then make my steering wheel off by 90 degrees? obviously I could disconnect that and then recenter it...Just still trying to wrap my head around "steering theory."

Yes, that is the typical way to center the steering wheel. The steering wheel is connected to the box, so your actually centering the box. In your case it turns more to the left than right w/an a new p/s converson & who knows how well they tried to center the wheel when they put it together.

 

[RWBeringer4x4]

Yes, that is the typical way to center the steering wheel. The steering wheel is connected to the box, so your actually centering the box. In your case it turns more to the left than right w/an a new p/s converson & who knows how well they tried to center the wheel when they put it together.

Yeah...What I find bizarre though, is that when I bought the truck from the PO, it had the same issue (1.5 turns left, 2.5 right). I always chalked it up to my PO being a and mounting the Pitman arm with the box off center. Seems really odd that, completely rebuilt front to back, with a fresh box, performed by a mechanic, it would have the exact same problem...Maybe freak coincidence, I guess only time will tell.

 

[ARCTICMUTT]

I would center the wheels/tires straight forward and pop the pitman arm off. Then I would turn the steering wheel till it was 2 turns both ways and reinstall the pitman arm. Test drive to make sure it works right and then disconnect the steering shaft from the gearbox, center the steering wheel and reconnect. The shop you had do the work probably marked the old box and installed the arm in the same spot.

 

[pb4ugo]

To get the 40 to turn more to the right you have to push the tie rod more to the right. Making the drag link longer does this. It also takes away how far it goes left. 1.5 turns one way & 2 the other is not centered. The PO probably never checked it, & just centered the wheel. I don't know if this is your return to center problem. If you have some caster it should center.

 

[ARCTICMUTT]

I would center the wheels/tires straight forward and pop the pitman arm off. Then I would turn the steering wheel till it was 2 turns both ways and reinstall the pitman arm. Test drive to make sure it works right and then disconnect the steering shaft from the gearbox, center the steering wheel and reconnect. The shop you had do the work probably marked the old box and installed the arm in the same spot.

Just for sh*ts and giggles I'd also check the toe with a tape measure just to verify they actually did some sort of an alignment

 

[pbgbottle]

See here also some pitman arms are keyed differently. I posted pic in this thread I used a hack saw and file to reindex mine.

https://forum.ih8mud.com/40-55-series-tech/365490-saginaw-pitman-arm-what-vehicles-pull.html

Sent from my iPhone using IH8MUD

 

[Fast Eddy]

I would center the wheels/tires straight forward and pop the pitman arm off. Then I would turn the steering wheel till it was 2 turns both ways and reinstall the pitman arm. Test drive to make sure it works right and then disconnect the steering shaft from the gearbox, center the steering wheel and reconnect. The shop you had do the work probably marked the old box and installed the arm in the same spot.

x2 on this. ^^^^

 

[RWBeringer4x4]

x2 on this. ^^^^

Figure it's easy, but I paid a mechanic to do this right. I'm in the process of moving, so free time is limited (packing sucks) so the mechanic will be making it right.

 

[ARCTICMUTT]

Figure it's easy, but I paid a mechanic to do this right. I'm in the process of moving, so free time is limited (packing sucks) so the mechanic will be making it right.

Make sure they give you a printout sheet with the before and after of the alignment!

 

[Weber Sarge]

Center the box first , then pitman arm , then axle/drag link . Center the wheel after that and set the toe-in . If that box is running off-center that will contribute to the problem as the recirculating ball system does have a "center" to it , running it out of center in a straight will make it feel weird .
Sarge