rock sliders -bolt on or weld???

[bhsdriller]

about to put on my white knuckle sliders this weekend
They use u-bolts to attach, 3 on driver side and 2 on the passenger side. Then on passenger there's a bracket in the front that uses the existing bolt holes in the frame to attach to

 

[2fpower]

I think white knuckle sells a kit with all of the pre-bent brackets.

I bent up my own a few weeks ago, took way too much time.

However, I don't have cats needing to be protected.

If you have cats, you'll want to get good protection.

The kit I am referencing above has good protection.

 

[bugsnbikes]

Just ordered a set of the Trail Gear 67" sliders for my '95 80. They will be here next week. In the meantime, just thought i'd pick your collective brains about attachment methods. Some of you have welded on your sliders. Others use bolts. I have a couple of questions I'm pondering, as usual...
1 -pros/cons of either method?
2 -if bolt on, I imagine the bolts go through the entire chassis rail. Will that weaken the chassis? The gusset mounts have an L profile, and each of the mounts has 4 holes on the face(into the side of the chassis rail), and one hole on the bottom tab. That seems like an awful lot of holes to be drilling through the chassis. But what do I know about this topic...That's why I'm asking all of you.
Look forward to your input if it's helpful or educational. Thanks

Toyota heat treats its frames from the factory to stress relieve the weld areas from factory on the frame. This allows them to use thinner frame material and not be subjected to weld weakening in the heat zone.

Any weld is creating a weak point if not heat/ stress relieved. Many people prefer bolt on vs welding to frame for this reason.

with that said- you can weld to the frame as long as you avoid uber long top to bottom / connected welds where you are introducing a fully connected vertically weak weld zone from top to bottom of the frame.

the 80 frame has proven fairly stout- with the one exception being the steering box area of frame where repeated stress of large tire pushing - cracks in frame can be looming/ common. l the higher the heat- the larger the heat affected zone just beside weld and the weaker spot vs actual weld itself. sometimes less is more when welding to a frame

 

[izzyandsue]

I bolted mine, tested them plenty on trails, they hold fine and I even lift the truck via them with a highlift jack (long story). I didn't want anything permanent that I couldn't remove with my tools/knowledge of sockets and wrenches. I am not welding savvy.

Also, listening to Elon Musk book this week, Chapter 9 or 10, at SpaceX the "engineers realized the rocket body size was limited to the continuous piece of metal they could get without welding, since the weld was the weakest point of the structure." Paraphrasing here, just what they say in the book.

 

[NextVentureCraig]

Bolt on makes for a much easier install with the option to remove them if needed. That's one of the reasons we used u-bolts to install ours

 

[Schmutz]

Take a look at the images on the White knuckle slider website...that should give you an idea of how they mount.

Thanks, that was extremely helpful. I just learned That I've had it pictured wrong in my mind this whole time (story of my life).

 

[Schmutz]

@NextVentureCraig
Thanks for the picture!!! That just confirms what I just posted...For some reason I always pictured the U-bolts running vertically. This makes good sense.

 

[Schmutz]

Ok, so now I have checked, and the TG sliders I bought lack any details to suggest they come with U-bolts. Let's say I want to go that route, can anyone recommend a good source for the bolts? I don't imagine my local Ace hardware would have them...

 

[Schmutz]

@bugsnbikes
I'm just a novice welder so now you're totally freaking me out...Bolt on is looking good right now

 

[surfpig]

I didn't know you *could* bolt on the TG sliders. Mine were weld-together only. Anyway, paint touch up is easy, just mask off the truck with plastic. Removal took about 15 minutes with the sawzall The only time I could see needing to remove them is to replace the cats, in which case, I would just cut off the one one offending leg and then weld back together when done

I think those are intended to be welded on...

 

[retrofive]

Ok, so now I have checked, and the TG sliders I bought lack any details to suggest they come with U-bolts. Let's say I want to go that route, can anyone recommend a good source for the bolts? I don't imagine my local Ace hardware would have them...

I contacted Slee in the past for a set of ubolts, they said they could provide them around $60 for a set. Maybe give them a call.

 

[jtwopark]

this is also a good solution as well

 

[beachcomberspi]

Bolt on gets my vote. They work as intended and there is more flexibility if/when they need to come off

 

[bugsnbikes]

Metaltech sells their u-bolts if you are looking for some that fit an 80.

 

[bugsnbikes]

@bugsnbikes
I'm just a novice welder so now you're totally freaking me out...Bolt on is looking good right now[/QUOTE


i wouldnt sweat it - the slider doesnt get the cycles of stress like the frame near the steering box does. and worst case scenario.......you crack your frame and then just have to drill the ends of the crack and reweld.

 

[lcwizard]

There is no stress relief process for mild steel after MIG welding unless you're talking about preheat process in which case metal greater than 1/4" but less than 1" thick should be at a temperature of 100 deg F. You probably won't know the difference if it's 75 deg. If the frame were Chromoly
it would be a different case.
The only heat treated frames I'm aware of are big rigs and the manufacturer places warning stickers all over the frame that say "Do not weld"

 

[Mandrake]

Previous rigs were welded on, and there weren't any issues, nor did I feel the need to ever take them off. Repainting them and filling gouges with weld werent a big deal. Just hang some Visqueen from the door to protect from overspray, or hang a leather apron to protect from weld splatter. One thing to note- if you do weld them on, get some 4" square 1/4" thick plates to double up the frame with at the attachment points, and rotate the plates 45° so they're oriented with a corner pointing up. This will prevent the legs of the slider from tearing your frame rail if they get hit really hard, and turning the plate 45° is required because you don't ever want to run a weld straight across the side of a frame rail. Personally, due to how far out the sliders have to be on our rigs, I would add some gussets to the top of where the legs weld to the frame.

If you wanted to bolt them on through the frame, grab a 3/4" hole saw to drill the bolt holes and then weld in some tube so that the frame rail sides don't bend and compress when you tighten the bolts down. Or U bolts.

Like the goat said, though... either way.

 

[cruiserdan]

I an not a fan of welding on a frame. On the other hand Toyota has historically serviced some frame-related brackets and cross members that are welded in so it is obviously possible to weld on the frame after-the-fact. On the other other hand, I'm not inclined to weld on parts of the frame that the factory did not.

 

[jonheld]

I've never been a fan of bolt on sliders, but I tend to wheel in the rocks. Mine are custom on both trucks and welded to the frame by a local fabricator. Sliders will get scratched and they are pretty easy to touch up once or twice a year with either brush on or spray on. I prefer using a brush and a can of Rustolium gloss black.
6K pounds coming down on rocks can take a toll on the frame. The welded supports have 12 or 14 inch wide ovals to distribute the weight in 4 places on the driver's side and 3 on the passenger side. The front support for the right slider is integrated into a bolt on skid plate custom made for my Magnaflow cat and down pipe.

 

[Schmutz]

@LINUS @rc51kid @bmwjnky @bhsdriller @2fpower @Izzyandsue @NextVentureCraig @retrofive @beachcomberspi @cruiserdan

Attention those who have bolt-on sliders, I wonder if you would please help me figure where best to attach my sliders. Since I have to order my U-bolts separately now, I'm anxious to get it right. And I'm also feeling a little TIME CRUNCH, since I need these on before my Moab trip next week. Shipping anything to my remote location takes at least 3 days. So your help would be most appreciated.

So, I'm embarrassed to admit this, but I was lying under the truck this morning for half an hour trying to figure where best they would attach. Some places are obvious, but others are tricky. Here's my best guess for the DS:

But here's my dilemma: that puts all three legs within 28" of each other, meaning the front and rear of my 67" sliders is cantilevered out quite a way. I don't know much about sliders. This is my first rodeo, and maybe it's not even a problem. I'll feel better when I see where yours are attached. BTW, inside that red square on my picture are 4 factory holes in the chassis. Only one of them is threaded (has a captured nut), so I doubt I can use that location. Or...?

Here's my best guess for the PS:

Again, this would put the two rear legs within 14" of each other, and still a long cantilever to the rear. The front leg, as your previous comments have already indicated will require some fab, and can attach using the 4 factory holes in the chassis, which, happily, are all threaded.

I guess I'm hoping some of you are laughing politely at me, and thinking "Mike, that cantilever wont hurt a thing on those 1 3/4" OD x .120 wall 1035 DOM sliders".

At any rate, perhaps you could let me know where your brackets are connected to your chassis, and also the number of U-bolts attaching each location. A picture would be awesome. That would give me so much peace of mind.
Oh, before I forget, what diameter bolts are you all using? I suppose if I get them from Metal Tech, White-knuckle offroad, or Slee they'll send me the right ones...

Final question, should the legs be attached horizontal as much as possible? I'm imagining they'll need to be angles slightly downwarss to clear the pinchwelds. I'm guessing that's ok?

Thanks for all your support of this newbie to off-road mods!