Questions for those towing travel trailers with 2016+ LX570 (1 Viewer)

[TeCKis300]

This is all wonderful info, thank you! A few follow-ups:

1. The tongue weight of 800lbs seems over the factory recommended 700lbs, were you able to weigh your whole set up? Maybe a broader question, where does one go to get their total GCWR?
2. How accurate is the TPMS to manually checking the tires? The manual recommends 39psi for the rear tires when towing and 33psi for the front, did you inflate all 4 tires or just the rear?
3. 80 gallons of water is 667lbs, wow! At an RV park, do they have fresh water hookups on each site or do you fill-up at a central location prior to parking? Great tip to avoid weight especially if water is available at the camp site.

1) From the manual for the 2020 LX570. These numbers have changed over the years, with significant changes when SAE J2807 was applied. I wouldn't sweat +/- 100lbs, and a properly adjusted WD hitch will distribute weight to the forward axle, and back to the trailers axle.

2) Don't worry too much about precision or accuracy with tire air pressures. They change and fluctuate anyways with atmospheric conditions, and there's margin, so it's futile to geek out here. If towing at the upper ends of the spectrum, it's reasonable and can be beneficial to go above those pressures by 3-5 PSI, particularly in the rear axle.

3) I always travel with full fresh water tanks, though full tanks in my Airstream is 40 gallons. My laden trailer is almost 8k and 1200lb tongue. I tend to boondock or camp without hookups, and an RV doesn't make a great home without water. Water is usually the constraining resource.

 

[coleAK]

This is all wonderful info, thank you! A few follow-ups:

1. The tongue weight of 800lbs seems over the factory recommended 700lbs, were you able to weigh your whole set up? Maybe a broader question, where does one go to get their total GCWR?
2. How accurate is the TPMS to manually checking the tires? The manual recommends 39psi for the rear tires when towing and 33psi for the front, did you inflate all 4 tires or just the rear?
3. 80 gallons of water is 667lbs, wow! At an RV park, do they have fresh water hookups on each site or do you fill-up at a central location prior to parking? Great tip to avoid weight especially if water is available at the camp site.

My trailer is full of stuff given the variety of things we do, limited access to support where we camp, and weather we can experience camping. Most of the time I’m pushing the 6800lb GVW limit without full water tanks.

I typically travel with 1/3 fresh water tank and the grey and black tanks empty. If I wasn’t carrying so much weight of stuff I would carry more water. When I head north or east of Fairbanks though it’s always with full fresh water. Tundra water is nasty... further north you go the worse it gets.

 

[Kieranz]

Yes, I would encourage more RPM. Max HP is @ 5600rpm for the 5.7L. Not to necessarily shoot for that as a target unless you need max oomph, as it's also its own relative peak stress level, but there is lots of room to operate with higher RPMs.

The idea with rpm is to use more combustion events to help do the climbing work. Rather than big heavy combustion events at max torque, apply more lighter combustion events. RPM also helps with additional coolant and oil flow, both in the engine and transmission.

The 5.7L is overall a strong and flexible motor. It's likely happy to operate low, high, and everything in between, so it's really just an optimization recommendation.

Perhaps also interesting is the climbing performance available at max HP. HP is ~200HP @ 3500 RPM vs ~320 HP @ 5600 RPM.

View attachment 2664034

That's what I did in practice. On the high altitude, steep grade, I was between 2nd and 3rd gears. 2nd gears had me around 5k RPM and the car was willing to still pull. Didn't sound great, but I know I had Toyota reliability. When on 3rd gear, I was down to a more reasonable RPM around 4k RPM. But the car was struggling to hold speed on the uphill and I didn't want to lug the engine.

 

[Kieranz]

This is all wonderful info, thank you! A few follow-ups:

1. The tongue weight of 800lbs seems over the factory recommended 700lbs, were you able to weigh your whole set up? Maybe a broader question, where does one go to get their total GCWR?
2. How accurate is the TPMS to manually checking the tires? The manual recommends 39psi for the rear tires when towing and 33psi for the front, did you inflate all 4 tires or just the rear?
3. 80 gallons of water is 667lbs, wow! At an RV park, do they have fresh water hookups on each site or do you fill-up at a central location prior to parking? Great tip to avoid weight especially if water is available at the camp site.

You're welcome.

- I was unable to find a scale. I used some back of napkin calculations to arrive at that estimate. But I may have been off +/- 50 lbs. I also didn't realize that some truck scales on the interstates are available when the signs say closed. Good to know for next time.
- TPMS in the vehicle doesn't account for altitude variance. Since I was at high elevation, the dash gauges likely read 3 to 4 lbs higher than actual. That said, I was closely observing how much higher the PSI went from cold to when on the highway. It must have raised good 6 to 7 lbs, which was borderline of what I was comfortable with. The additional weight can cause the tire to overheat. Ironically in some cases and counterintutitive, you want to add more air to a tire if the PSIs are reading high due to overheating. The 21" rims on the LX only have Dunlop or Yokohama P rated tires in that size. I was aware that this could have been a potential troubleshoot before towing, so I kept my eyes on tire pressure during the trip.
- The owner of the trailer had topped off the water tanks as a courtesy. If it were up to me, I would have only carried 10 to 15 gals, as the site we went to had full hookups. I felt bad dumping all the water they had just filled prior to my pickup. So I left with the extra ballast

 

[Kieranz]

You're welcome.

- I was unable to find a scale. I used some back of napkin calculations to arrive at that estimate. But I may have been off +/- 50 lbs. I also didn't realize that some truck scales on the interstates are available when the signs say closed. Good to know for next time.
- TPMS in the vehicle doesn't account for altitude variance. Since I was at high elevation, the dash gauges likely read 3 to 4 lbs higher than actual. That said, I was closely observing how much higher the PSI went from cold to when on the highway. It must have raised good 6 to 7 lbs, which was borderline of what I was comfortable with. The additional weight can cause the tire to overheat. Ironically in some cases and counterintutitive, you want to add more air to a tire if the PSIs are reading high due to overheating. The 21" rims on the LX only have Dunlop or Yokohama P rated tires in that size. I was aware that this could have been a potential troubleshoot before towing, so I kept my eyes on tire pressure during the trip.
- The owner of the trailer had topped off the water tanks as a courtesy. If it were up to me, I would have only carried 10 to 15 gals, as the site we went to had full hookups. I felt bad dumping all the water they had just filled prior to my pickup. So I left with the extra ballast

Also given that I didn't have a WD hitch and fully knowing that the tongue rate was on the rear axle, I only added air to the rear tires.

 

[stonekutters]

Thank you @Kieranz @coleAK @TeCKis300 and @Dan Higgins

Some good takeaways:

• Loading up on water makes sense if going to a remote location or where water quality is unknown / poor.
• If going to a RV campground its less weight to tow and better to fill-up on the camp site.
• Keeping RPM high but below peak torque for climbing.
• Research on trailing specific forums / YouTube channels for more info.
• Weigh stations are a good option to weigh the TV + TT even if they are closed.
• Tongue weight of +/- 100lbs is ok as long a good WD hitch is used.

 

[GordJ]

All this talk of hauling water reminded me of the one thing that makes rving different from all other towing. When you stay at a place with a sani dump don’t leave without emptying the tanks. There’s just no reason to haul used food for no reason but there’s lots of reasons to dump it.

 

[pakjoe]

1) From the manual for the 2020 LX570. These numbers have changed over the years, with significant changes when SAE J2807 was applied. I wouldn't sweat +/- 100lbs, and a properly adjusted WD hitch will distribute weight to the forward axle, and back to the trailers axle.
View attachment 2664285

2) Don't worry too much about precision or accuracy with tire air pressures. They change and fluctuate anyways with atmospheric conditions, and there's margin, so it's futile to geek out here. If towing at the upper ends of the spectrum, it's reasonable and can be beneficial to go above those pressures by 3-5 PSI, particularly in the rear axle.

3) I always travel with full fresh water tanks, though full tanks in my Airstream is 40 gallons. My laden trailer is almost 8k and 1200lb tongue. I tend to boondock or camp without hookups, and an RV doesn't make a great home without water. Water is usually the constraining resource.

I have a 2016 LX570 currently pulling a 2019 Airstream 22' Sport with a 4,500 GVWR (dry weight 3,634), tongue weight 422 lbs. using an Equalizer hitch set up (1,000 lb). It tows great with zero sway. I'm looking at upgrading to a 2017 Airstream 23' International Serenity 23D. It has a tongue weight of 720 lbs and a 6000 GVWR (dry weight 4,761). I'd like to use the same hitch set up, however I have concerns about the tongue weight. Your post suggests that an additional 100 lbs over the 700 stated max is not to be concerned about. My sense is the LX factory hitch receiver is over engineered, however adding the weight of the Equalizer (as well as the heavy down shaft I needed to even up with the Airstream height) I'm likely at 800 lbs or so. Should I back away from the 23D and look for a regular 23 that has a much lower tongue weight ? Or will the LX / Equalizer set up handle it (the extra tongue weight) OK?

 

[TeCKis300]

I have a 2016 LX570 currently pulling a 2019 Airstream 22' Sport with a 4,500 GVWR (dry weight 3,634), tongue weight 422 lbs. using an Equalizer hitch set up (1,000 lb). It tows great with zero sway. I'm looking at upgrading to a 2017 Airstream 23' International Serenity 23D. It has a tongue weight of 720 lbs and a 6000 GVWR (dry weight 4,761). I'd like to use the same hitch set up, however I have concerns about the tongue weight. Your post suggests that an additional 100 lbs over the 700 stated max is not to be concerned about. My sense is the LX factory hitch receiver is over engineered, however adding the weight of the Equalizer (as well as the heavy down shaft I needed to even up with the Airstream height) I'm likely at 800 lbs or so. Should I back away from the 23D and look for a regular 23 that has a much lower tongue weight ? Or will the LX / Equalizer set up handle it (the extra tongue weight) OK?

The LX is capable of towing the 23 or 23D with no constraints on behalf of the tow vehicle. I towed the 23D with my previous LX470/100-series and she did great. The LX570 hitch is spec'd for 850lbs so both those models will fit within the stated capacities. Agreed that the hitch is exceedingly robust and likely capable of much more as it's an integral cross member of the frame rather than a bolted on job as most vehicles have. Your existing Equalizer 1k is perfect for the job.

I tow a 27FB which is definitely on the upper end, at 8k lbs and 1200lbs tongue, and perhaps exceeding some specs. I don't necessarily condone it, but I'm wholly comfortable doing so as I've taken the time to dial in the setup. With the right setup, she tows exceedingly well, with the same 1k Equalizer. Your 2016 has the benefit of an 8-speed tranny and bigger front brakes stock, and I've heard others reports towing larger 25'+ widebody Airstreams with equal success.

Feel free to choose whichever trailer model that suits you best.

 

[pakjoe]

I have a 2016 LX570 currently pulling a 2019 Airstream 22' Sport with a 4,500 GVWR (dry weight 3,634), tongue weight 422 lbs. using an Equalizer hitch set up (1,000 lb). It tows great with zero sway. I'm looking at upgrading to a 2017 Airstream 23' International Serenity 23D. It has a tongue weight of 720 lbs and a 6000 GVWR (dry weight 4,761). I'd like to use the same hitch set up, however I have concerns about the tongue weight. Your post suggests that an additional 100 lbs over the 700 stated max is not to be concerned about. My sense is the LX factory hitch receiver is over engineered, however adding the weight of the Equalizer (as well as the heavy down shaft I needed to even up with the Airstream height) I'm likely at 800 lbs or so. Should I back away from the 23D and look for a regular 23 that has a much lower tongue weight ? Or will the LX / Equalizer set up handle it (the extra tongue weight) OK?

The LX is capable of towing the 23 or 23D with no constraints on behalf of the tow vehicle. I towed the 23D with my previous LX470/100-series and she did great. The LX570 hitch is spec'd for 850lbs so both those models will fit within the stated capacities. Agreed that the hitch is exceedingly robust and likely capable of much more as it's an integral cross member of the frame rather than a bolted on job as most vehicles have. Your existing Equalizer 1k is perfect for the job.

I tow a 27FB which is definitely on the upper end, at 8k lbs and 1200lbs tongue, and perhaps exceeding some specs. I don't necessarily condone it, but I'm wholly comfortable doing so as I've taken the time to dial in the setup. With the right setup, she tows exceedingly well, with the same 1k Equalizer. Your 2016 has the benefit of an 8-speed tranny and bigger front brakes stock, and I've heard others reports towing larger 25'+ widebody Airstreams with equal success.

Feel free to choose whichever trailer model that suits you best.

Appreciate your response. Thanks. Do you "know a guy" in the Atlanta area that does a good job with hitch set ups. The Airstream dealer is doing the transfer from the 22 to the 23, however in case it doesn't feel right I would love to have a Series 200 (towing) expert fine tune my set up. Again, thanks for your response.

 

[TeCKis300]

Sorry, don't know anyone out in Atlanta.

Key things:
1) Trailer sits level when all hitched up and LX is at normal ride height
2) Ball ideally as close and tight to the bumper as possible. Avoid it projecting horizontally more than necessary
3) WD tension might be difficult to setup by classic measuring fender strategies with AHC. I would say form normal AHC height, you should have to lift the hitch by the tongue jack by about 3-4", and then be able to set the bars on the brackets by hand. That should roughly provide enough front axle load restoration (FALR) at ride height

 

[pakjoe]

Sorry, don't know anyone out in Atlanta.

Key things:
1) Trailer sits level when all hitched up and LX is at normal ride height
2) Ball ideally as close and tight to the bumper as possible. Avoid it projecting horizontally more than necessary
3) WD tension might be difficult to setup by classic measuring fender strategies with AHC. I would say form normal AHC height, you should have to lift the hitch by the tongue jack by about 3-4", and then be able to set the bars on the brackets by hand. That should roughly provide enough front axle load restoration (FALR) at ride height

Thanks you! Very helpful.

 

[rnummi]

BTW, you may find better info on forums that are specific to towing trailers or on YouTube. When we first started towing we watched the LoLoHo YouTube channel. It is by a couple who tow an Airstream all over the US though they are towing it with a truck. But lots of good advice on towing and camping with a trailer.

Getting the new to me 2017 LX570 tow package ready to pull our Airstream 23D International Serenity. Purchased Redraw Tow-Pro Elite V3, RedArc Cable TPH-021 (Prewired for the LX), the little Plug Cap for the "factory look" controller install (Part #TPSI-002). Also had to snag the 7 Pin plug receptacle (it didn't come with it)... strange that its all the way over on passenger side....the & Pin install was simplicity itself.. the Toyota kit even came with the correct bolts. On previous tow vehicle (MB AMG Gl63) I was running with the Curt Echo blue tooth controlled Brake Controller. Wasn't happy... intermittent breaks in communication, etc... Looking forward to joining the LR/LX Crew here....there is a ton of info on towing w/ various set ups... the Airstream crowd is very very hooked on Can-Am RV for set up advice on any TV...

 

[rnummi]

Sorry, don't know anyone out in Atlanta.

Key things:
1) Trailer sits level when all hitched up and LX is at normal ride height
2) Ball ideally as close and tight to the bumper as possible. Avoid it projecting horizontally more than necessary
3) WD tension might be difficult to setup by classic measuring fender strategies with AHC. I would say form normal AHC height, you should have to lift the hitch by the tongue jack by about 3-4", and then be able to set the bars on the brackets by hand. That should roughly provide enough front axle load restoration (FALR) at ride height

The "standard" trailer ball height seems to be around 21"..... (at least that's what it is on Airstream 23). LX seems to be waaay higher than old TV. Clearly going to have to get a much bigger drop on the stinger. Im guessing a full 10-12" drop from hitch (to accommodate weight distribution). Im curious about how the WD hitch setup will affect the AHC?

 

[TeCKis300]

The "standard" trailer ball height seems to be around 21"..... (at least that's what it is on Airstream 23). LX seems to be waaay higher than old TV. Clearly going to have to get a much bigger drop on the stinger. Im guessing a full 10-12" drop from hitch (to accommodate weight distribution). Im curious about how the WD hitch setup will affect the AHC?

Yes, the LX hitch is pretty high up. I don't remember exactly anymore as my LX is modified and my Airstream has almost a 3" lift between Dexter lift blocks and upsized tires. The other challenge is that the LX is constant height and doesn't droop, so you can't rely on the suspension sagging to bring the two closer together. Perhaps that has the benefit making it easier to measure exactly how much of a drop hitch you'll need.

AHCs interaction with the WD bar has some unique benefits. You'll want to make sure you have enough WD tension at "normal" ride height after everything has leveled. Because if you set it up in droop, the self leveling will have the effect of reducing WD tension. AHC lowers 1" at 65mph, which has the nice effect of increasing WD tension right when it's needed at higher speeds. This has the complimentary effect that you can set WD tension just a bit milder at rest, to keep more articulation. Manually putting the system to high mode, also has the effect of relaxing the WD bars, great for traversing dips into gas stations or campgrounds with uneven surfaces.

 

[rnummi]

Yes, the LX hitch is pretty high up. I don't remember exactly anymore as my LX is modified and my Airstream has almost a 3" lift between Dexter lift blocks and upsized tires. The other challenge is that the LX is constant height and doesn't droop, so you can't rely on the suspension sagging to bring the two closer together. Perhaps that has the benefit making it easier to measure exactly how much of a drop hitch you'll need.

AHCs interaction with the WD bar has some unique benefits. You'll want to make sure you have enough WD tension at "normal" ride height after everything has leveled. Because if you set it up in droop, the self leveling will have the effect of reducing WD tension. AHC lowers 1" at 65mph, which has the nice effect of increasing WD tension right when it's needed at higher speeds. This has the complimentary effect that you can set WD tension just a bit milder at rest, to keep more articulation. Manually putting the system to high mode, also has the effect of relaxing the WD bars, great for traversing dips into gas stations or campgrounds with uneven surfaces.

Thanks! Very helpful....looking at the Curt 17123 which is a pretty substantial drop. Will let you know how it works out.

 

[rnummi]

FYI, my 2017 LX570 manual says when you cross over 2000lbs towing GVWR trailer weight, use of sway control is required. Crossing 5000lbs a WD hitch is required. Just curious as to why required if rated tow cap is 7100lbs. Currently using an Equalizer WD anti-way hitch to tow a Airstream 23D, 6000lb GVWR trailer.

 

[eatSleepWoof]

FYI, my 2017 LX570 manual says when you cross over 2000lbs towing GVWR trailer weight, use of sway control is required. Crossing 5000lbs a WD hitch is required. Just curious as to why required if rated tow cap is 7100lbs. Currently using an Equalizer WD anti-way hitch to tow a Airstream 23D, 6000lb GVWR trailer.

Likely for legal liability reasons.

 

[TeCKis300]

FYI, my 2017 LX570 manual says when you cross over 2000lbs towing GVWR trailer weight, use of sway control is required. Crossing 5000lbs a WD hitch is required. Just curious as to why required if rated tow cap is 7100lbs. Currently using an Equalizer WD anti-way hitch to tow a Airstream 23D, 6000lb GVWR trailer.

Am I understanding the question is why sway control and then WD is required at various thresholds?

Simple answer is because of the dynamics of an overhung (aka ball towed) hitch. Tongue weight has the effect of reducing weight off the steer axle, reducing its directional control.

There's more to it however. Depending on what's towed, it's not always true that sway/WD control is required at those same thresholds. Large boats with long tongues don't have as substantial of tongue weights and one can tow well into higher weight just on the ball. Open car haulers, dump trailers, and heavy utility trailers are also often towed without the benefit of either.

Travel trailers are a different animal. They have significant tongue weights. Combined with substantial side area that can catch wind. Both together require more due diligence and and the benefit of WD/Sway control. Depending on the hitch used, those may not be separate distinct functions and are integrated. I would highly recommend even a 2k lb travel trailer use a lighter duty WD hitch. It greatly increases the threshold of sway and safety factor because side gusts can be no joke in the wrong situation.

 

[coleAK]

Am I understanding the question is why sway control and then WD is required at various thresholds?

Simple answer is because of the dynamics of an overhung (aka ball towed) hitch. Tongue weight has the effect of reducing weight off the steer axle, reducing its directional control.

There's more to it however. Depending on what's towed, it's not always true that sway/WD control is required at those same thresholds. Large boats with long tongues don't have as substantial of tongue weights and one can tow well into higher weight just on the ball. Open car haulers, dump trailers, and heavy utility trailers are also often towed without the benefit of either.

Travel trailers are a different animal. They have significant tongue weights. Combined with substantial side area that can catch wind. Both together require more due diligence and and the benefit of WD/Sway control. Depending on the hitch used, those may not be separate distinct functions and are integrated. I would highly recommend even a 2k lb travel trailer use a lighter duty WD hitch. It greatly increases the threshold of sway and safety factor because side gusts can be no joke in the wrong situation.

My brother has a ~3k lb rPod. He tows it with his Jeep GC trailhawk (rated to 7200 lbs) with a WD/sway control hitch. I’ve towed it with my LX and used his hitch. I wouldn’t want to tow it far or in high winds without a WD.