Question about Swagelok fittings

[Kent]

Working on the brakes on the 40 and used a Swagelok to plumb the residual and proportioning valves into the system. Question is I goofed on the line and want to replace it but not sure if the Swagelok can be reused. I snugged it down tight but was able to get it off the brake line.

Can they be taken apart and used again on a different line once they have been compressed, or do I need a new one?

Thanks

Kent

 

[Poser]

You need a new one...



*This is stated only to provide a generic answer to your question. In no way do I condone or suggest this as a good practice for brake line fabrication. A trail fix is one thing, but flaring and bending brake line is not difficult and something that anyone can get the knack of in short order. Further, the tooling for performing this operation is not cost-prohibitive.

 

[dgangle]

if you didn't tighten enough to permanently lock the ferrule set to the brake line, yes. It doesn't take much to lock these and when done they cannot be reused.

The new ferrule set is part number SS-300-SET and they can be bought individually or as a whole stick as pictured.

on the right is the SS-300-SET, the center is an non-reusable/previously used set and the right is the nut which can be reused indefinitely.

Hope this answers your question.

 

[Kent]

Yes that answers my question.

Thank you both!

Poser - I didn't think about flaring to splice the lines back together. The compression fitting is simple but I see your point.

You are right, the auto parts store has a small section of flared line with fittings. I could simply buy two more fittings and flare the ends and splice it together that way. Hmmm, thanks for the input.

Kent

 

[bsevans]

If you are relocating the entire Swagelok fitting and brake line it can be reused. If you want to use the Swagelok fitting with another brake line you need to replace both the front and back ferrule. We take apart high pressure lines using Swagelok fittings all the time. The body of the fitting would need to be replaced if the nut were over torqued and the ferrules scared the seat in the body. You might want to go to the Swagelok website and gather some info about their application. You also need to read about the proper torque to get the proper seal. You definitely do not want to tighten too much as it will deform the components. One other thing, you never want to use components from non-swagelok fittings (such as Parker) on your Swagelok fittings.

Swagelok

Even though Swagelok fittings are very reliable and rated for much higher pressures, if you are using the Stainless Steel version, they are not legal to use for automotive brake lines on public roads. You can use them on a vehicle that is a trailer queen driven on trails only. This really would only come into play if you were to have an accident on a public road and it came to light that you had brake lines that use components that were not certified for automotive brake line use.

 

[dgangle]

Not to discredit anyone's input, but our trucks aren't the space shuttle, part of the reactor in a nuclear power plant or of the missle defense system. Get a new ferrule set if you need and use common sense. There are no brake line police....at least in the world me and everyone I know live in.

 

[Poser]

There are no brake line police....at least in the world me and everyone I know live in.

Attorney = Brake Line Police

 

[Downey]

We've always provided Swageloks for two reasons:
1. they are an easy install/repair, and are rated at something like 10 times the pressure your brake system will ever see. Very defendable!!!
2. Joe average citizen can/does screw up double flaring with even the best of double flaring tools---too risky!!!
Since Swageloks were designed for field repair on earth movers and elevator motors on the 80th floor, Swagelok never got around to promoting them for regular passenger car use, otherwise they would have gotten around to getting them approved a few light years ago!!

 

[Tigerstripe40]

We've always provided Swageloks for two reasons:
1. they are an easy install/repair, and are rated at something like 10 times the pressure your brake system will ever see. Very defendable!!!
2. Joe average citizen can/does screw up double flaring with even the best of double flaring tools---too risky!!!
Since Swageloks were designed for field repair on earth movers and elevator motors on the 80th floor, Swagelok never got around to promoting them for regular passenger car use, otherwise they would have gotten around to getting them approved a few light years ago!!

I purchased a nice-ish double flaring tool (napa brand) a few years ago to do my RDB conversion (which still isn't installed).

I STILL can't get the double flare right. I wound up just buying the rear brake lines pre-made but was a bit worried about adding in the proportioning valve. If I screwed up the double flare on new brake lines, I was scared that I wouldn't be able to do it on a 30+ year old line..

now that I know about Swagelocks, I think thats what I am going to use instead.

Are they available at Autozone/Napa/Checker?

 

[Pin_Head]

We also disconnect and reconnect Swagelok fittings all the time at work with no problems, but nobody is going to get hurt if they leak. However, I wouldn't use them for brake work because they aren't approved for that use and that would increase my liability. The problem isn't the fitting. They are good to 6,000 PSI or more. I'm not sure that the tubing is compatible with the fitting or approved for use with them. We only use the fittings with their recommended tubing. It is not just the tube diameter that is important. Flaring the tube isn't that tough after a little practice.

 

[Tigerstripe40]

We also disconnect and reconnect Swagelok fittings all the time at work with no problems. However, I wouldn't use them for brake work because they aren't approved for that use and that would increase my liability. The problem isn't the fitting. They are good to 6,000 PSI or more. I'm not sure that the tubing is compatible with the fitting or approved for use with them. We only use the fittings with their recommenced tubing. It is not just the tube diameter that is important. Flaring the tube isn't that tough after a little practice.

I could never get the double flare straight. It was always lopsided.

 

[salguire]

Attorney = Brake Line Police

I have to agree with Poser. This is one of the things that it is not that hard to do it the right way. The cops are not going to stop you and inspect your cruiser, they stop the big rigs for stuff like this. If you cause an accident because of faulty brake lines that you have fabricated that do not meet DOT specs then you are liable. I know there are many rigs running around with flat glass or plexi windows, bead-lock wheels or homemade brake lines but as long as you never have an accident you are fine.

 

[dgangle]

I like to think I am mechanically more capable than the average guy. That being said, I have purchased 3 different double flaring tools from notable brands and after countless attempts at practice, could not make a good double flare if my life depended on it. Bad luck? Stupidity? Ignorance? Who knows. The Swagelok fittings are easy, work and have proven the test of time.

Just because an aftermarket part doesn't have DOT approval, does that make it unsuitable for use on your truck? The jury will never be back on that one. Ever read the fine print on virtually all Willwood brake parts, MAF disk conversion kits or SST brake lines sold by many of the niche-market companies that sell stuff for our little hobby?

 

[bsevans]

I could never get the double flare straight. It was always lopsided.

I'm not sure what double flair tool you are using. I've found that the quality and consistency of the double flair improves with better flaring tools. I have owned a half dozen flaring tools and all but two of them I would not recommend or give away. The kit I have now is pricy but makes flawless flairs - single, double, metric bubble, push connect and GM fuel lines. It is made by Mastercool and is a "Universal Hydraulic Flaring Tool Set". I’ve owned it for over a year and it has saved me time and material (no rework). I found it on the internet for $289. I've found that if you are installing SS brake lines you will appreciate the capability of this hydraulic flaring system.

Mastercool

 

[John McVicker]

I'm not sure what double flair tool you are using. I've found that the quality and consistency of the double flair improves with better flaring tools. I have owned a half dozen flaring tools and all but two of them I would not recommend or give away. The kit I have now is pricy but makes flawless flairs - single, double, metric bubble, push connect and GM fuel lines. It is made by Mastercool and is a "Universal Hydraulic Flaring Tool Set". I’ve owned it for over a year and it has saved me time and material (no rework). I found it on the internet for $289. I've found that if you are installing SS brake lines you will appreciate the capability of this hydraulic flaring system.

Mastercool

Not trying to hijack, but Bsevans, Which PN of the Mastertool brand did you purchase/recommend ??

Thanks and now back to the main topic.

John

 

[Kent]

Wow some good discussion here!

Thanks for the info.

Kent

 

[cruiserbrett]

There is NO way you should use swagelocks on standard brakeline. The wall thickness is not enough to provide proper compression of the fitting and the tension needed to retain the fitting on the tube. If you have ever seen true swagelock tube, its significantly thicker to allow for the correct compression and retention of the swage (tapered fitting).

Might it work? sure? wanna find out why its not meant for standard DOT brake tube?

 

[Poser]

Barry-


I own the flaring tool that you have linked, and while I like the fact that I can make fuel injection lines and other flares with it, hands down, the easiest, cleanest, and fastest flaring tool I have EVER used is the one pictured below, that I purchased from Eastwood.








Eastwood <---- this is a link

 

[fj hunter]

i feel like something needs to be added here ...

i worked over 27 years in the computer chip manufacturing field. i estimate that i made at least a few 100,000 swagelock joints on everthing from plastic to stainless.

I have taught classes on how to properly tighten and reuse certain parts.

I have engineered systems that have reused steel, and stainless steel joints well over 200 times.

i'd go with swage way before i'd pick up a flaring tool.

on the use of swage on brake lines. in classes where swage is presented and pressure tested, the tubing usually pops long before any joints ever break loose.

those ratings ran upwards of 25,000 PSI. prior to burst. and never had problems under vacuum.

but one wrongful death suit, and there goes the reccomendations at swage. what a wonderful world we live and work in.

 

[jeffery_1965]

Not that this will change peoples minds, but here's some information that I would like to post again, and let others make their own decision. The funny thing is everyone keeps quoting how strong the fitting is, but it takes the fitting and tubing together to make a good joint. If you do not follow swagelok's recommendations to the letter, I don't think quoting fitting strength means squat. I know I've posted this before, but it seems that some folks think tubing is tubing, well I would beg to differ.

First off, most OEM brake tubing is made from Bundy tubing, which is actually a thin piece of steel sheet wrapped on itself twice, then brazed. Don't believe me, look here: Bundy tube - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Next, if you read up on Swagelok's suggested tubing for their fittings, you start to get the idea of all the features needed in the tubing for it to function with their fittings. http://www.swagelok.com/downloads/we.../MS-13-151.PDF Smooth finish, and appropriate hardness to properly seal against the fittings is required.

My opinion is that I might consider using swagelok fittings on seamless or welded-and-drawn tubing used in a properly designed brake line setup, but I would not bet my life, or anyone else's life on using swagelok fittings on bundy tubing. My call purely, but if you choose to use them on your rig, I wouldn't want to be in your place if you are the cause of an accident. I know, they've been used before, and might work "most" of the time. It would be nice if someone would call swagelok and find out if they support their fittings on bundy tubing.

My $0.02

Jeff