Pertronix or Full Electronic Distributor

[Racer65]

No, the 78-newer USA trucks use fully electronic ignition. A points dissy does not provide the right signal to trigger that style ignitor.

Sorry for digging deeper...For those years, including '81-newer 60 Series, can it be be set up as a traditional points dizzy, like the pre-'75 years with the 61080 dizzy? I.e. bypass the ignitor and use a ballast with the coil. The reason I'm asking is because when these are used on the 2F or 3F engine in the overseas markets, it appears to be set up that way. The ignition diagram shows just a coil with resistor. No ignitor or other electronic components.

 

[65swb45]

Sorry for digging deeper...For those years, including '81-newer 60 Series, can it be be set up as a traditional points dizzy, like the pre-'75 years with the 61080 dizzy? I.e. bypass the ignitor and use a ballast with the coil. The reason I'm asking is because when these are used on the 2F or 3F engine in the overseas markets, it appears to be set up that way. The ignition diagram shows just a coil with resistor. No ignitor or other electronic components.

Just reentering this discussion after a few days in the desert.

By force of reason, if you can stick a DUI/DUM in an FJ60, you can stick a points-type ND dizzy in.

AS A NON-TECHNICAL observation based on over 20 years of selling and installing hundreds of Pertronix systems, I have NEVER seen or heard of a coil failure for lack of a ballast resistor.

 

[FJ40Jim]

Yes, it is possible to hack away at a later US spec Cruiser and downgrade to points ignition. It just requires ditching the dissy, coil and ignitor.

Again, a ballast is mentioned. On 81-newer US Cruisers there is no ballast circuitry. This has nothing to do with what dissy is installed. The wiring on the truck does not have provision for ballast bypass when cranking.

 

[65swb45]

Well I guess we have reached one of those rare occasions where we can agree to disagree Jim.

As I wrote in my article for Toyota Trails back in 2005, I travel hundreds of miles into the outback with my Landcruisers on a regular basis, and my decision-making process is driven by the consideration of limiting vulnerability. Whether it's removing fool infection for a carburetor I know I can fix in the field, or taking out a 30+year old large cap dizzy with a 30year old module in favor of a dizzy I can run with points, reload with a Pertronix kit, and re-reload with points if the Pertronix fails, I know I am going to get home. Maybe I'm bastardizing. Maybe I'm sacrificing a little performance [though I'm not sure of that] I'm definitely not a purist. But I think my instincts for survival are good.

my friend; it's all good.

 

[devo]

This is a great thread.
I have a 1981 FJ43 out of Colombia. Although it is an ‘81 the distributor is more like what you would find in a 1975 NA 40.
I had a choice when upgrading, either run the FJ60 type distributor ignition system or Pertonix. I chose Pertonix for the reason that if it could fail I would simply replace it with points and condenser. I love what Mark said, “limiting vulnerability “. I’m out a lot and vulnerability figures in.

Anyway I want to ask, do coils wear out? If I upgraded the distributor does it make sense to run a 30 year old coil?



devo

 

[1911]

Anyway I want to ask, do coils wear out? If I upgraded the distributor does it make sense to run a 30 year old coil?

My experience only - they don't wear out, but they can go bad. There is a lot of wire wound up in a coil; in a high-vibration environment (such as a motorcycle), the wire can break and cause an intermittent open or interruption in the resistivity of the coil. If the seal on the canister is compromised, they can also become corroded inside. Failing either of these, there is not much to go wrong, as there are no moving parts in the coil. So, I have replaced coils several times in motorcycles, but never in a Land Cruiser. The factory original coil in my 40 is 39 years old and still works great; I didn't touch it when I changed my dizzy out for a big-cap FJ60 unit.

 

[77mustard40]

Great discussion... years ago I dumped my points for a big cap from a 60. Sent her to Jim for a refresh and recurve, installed & timed and haven’t touched it since. Seemed to run better, but then again mine seems to ‘run’ better after a good bath.

 

[thorslc1977]

My vac advance was shot on my OEM 77 dissy ( I am original owner). So I bought one of City Racers points distributor to use advance module from that. Once I had my dissy out I noticed breaker plate was sticking so I used breaker plate from City Racers. All of these parts fit perfectly and even though his instructions said to bypass ignitor for his dissy I have it in place with my dissy with his parts. Now I have my original dissy in place with new parts working perfectly and still smog legal here in Cali.

 

[cuencanolenny]

I've had two of the Pertronix units. The first one lasted two months. The second one lasted less than that time. The first one just flat failed. The second one never worked right. I removed it, reinstalled the points and it has been running fine ever since. Lots of folks on Mud swear by it, I swear at it.

 

[1969FJ]

I have heard a lot of Pertronix failures on here. I purchased my kit over 10 years ago and I am wondering if Pertronix is suffering from quality control issues , wherever they are made ? It happened to Optima batteries and it can happen at any time. Mine has never failed and it always runs fine.

 

[pbgbottle]

I had a battle with my pertroinx in my old boat I went through 3 modules in a year. Sent back to pwrtorinx for warranty each time they tested bad they always sent me new ones,that being said I was also fooling around with their flame thrower coils and ballast resistor removal ,After all my messing around with stuff and converting my old boat back to stock configuration Points ,
30 year old coil all was fine a month later I went to try the ingniter 2 one more time and all I did was replace the points plate with the module left everything else alone ,( for easy swap out in case of another module failure)
Left ballast resistor left old coil left stock plug gap stock timing
And the pertronix has been great for the last 5 years , I wouldn’t waste money on the pertronix coils either and run all factory specs and it will run just fine

I still carry a spare igniter 2 and my points plate for backup. Just in case of another failure
Ultimately I figured the module frying was from my faulty flame thrower epoxy coil it was junk right out of the box I carry a spare Napa oil filled coil now and am still using the 30 year old factory oem coil on the boat

 

[cuencanolenny]

I had a battle with my pertroinx in my old boat I went through 3 modules in a year. Sent back to pwrtorinx for warranty each time they tested bad they always sent me new ones,that being said I was also fooling around with their flame thrower coils and ballast resistor removal ,After all my messing around with stuff and converting my old boat back to stock configuration Points ,
30 year old coil all was fine a month later I went to try the ingniter 2 one more time and all I did was replace the points plate with the module left everything else alone ,( for easy swap out in case of another module failure)
Left ballast resistor left old coil left stock plug gap stock timing
And the pertronix has been great for the last 5 years , I wouldn’t waste money on the pertronix coils either and run all factory specs and it will run just fine

I still carry a spare igniter 2 and my points plate for backup. Just in case of another failure
Ultimately I figured the module frying was from my faulty flame thrower epoxy coil it was junk right out of the box I carry a spare Napa oil filled coil now and am still using the 30 year old factory oem coil on the boat

I didn't use their coil. I had purchased a Taylor Vertex epoxy coil about five years ago and a Mallory ballast resistor. I did not try the Pertronix with the ballast resistor. As I understand it the ballast resistor just helps prolong point life and the Pertronix didn't have an issue with that.

 

[FJ40Jim]

This is a great thread.
Anyway I want to ask, do coils wear out? If I upgraded the distributor does it make sense to run a 30 year old coil?

No, coils don't wear out. They can fail due to oil leaks or shorting out or meltdown.

If the dissy is upgraded to the waterproof, ball bearing, electronic unit, then it requires a different coil & ignitor.

 

[brian]

Ok forgive me here but.
I have the pertronix one and a firecracker or whatever they call it aftermarket hot coil that I would like to replace with OEM. The truck is a 1975. So can I use a 1975 coil and igniter package for that? The distributor that I'm using is what they call the non USA which I gather is just a 69 to 71 or whatever distributor.

 

[cuencanolenny]

Ok forgive me here but.
I have the pertronix one and a firecracker or whatever they call it aftermarket hot coil that I would like to replace with OEM. The truck is a 1975. So can I use a 1975 coil and igniter package for that? The distributor that I'm using is what they call the non USA which I gather is just a 69 to 71 or whatever distributor.

I use the same type of distributor. I'm not sure what you mean by using an igniter with it though. The OEM coil is much lower voltage than the Taylor-Vertex type of coils which produce in the 45K volt range vs 28K for stock.

 

[Solace in Solitude]

The DUI is working fine. Reliability was #1 for me. I like that it's new and parts are interchangeable with GM and available at most any auto parts store. It fit without changing the side cover. 8 months is still kind of new, so time will tell.

I love my DUI, for several reasons.

My stock ‘78 dissy’s Vac Advance was still “working”, but was also the source of my vacuum leak... robbing 44 of power... especially as altitude increased.

I couldn’t find a new vac advance module... I couldn’t find a new dissy, with a new vac advance module, that I was comfortable driving into ‘nowhere’... I couldn’t find a method for resealing the vac advance module, that I was comfortable driving into “nowhere”.

So, I started researching alternatives... and DUI won out...

1. A DUI replaces the dissy, coil and igniter... and requires NOT using the “fat” BY wire, on my ‘78... it has the “fat” pink Yazuki resister wire spliced into it.
2. DUI runs “fully battery power”, so plugs are gapped at .055” and timing is set to about 12*BTDC.
3. Increase in power is significant... in tests, I’ve found I can cruise at 70mph... even fully loaded and uphill. Of course, some of the power increase is attributable to plugging that vacuum leak. Note: I seldom exceed 60... but, it sure is nice to merge into freeway traffic, rather than merely becoming a target.
4. No power loss at altitude... I’ve driven above 7k’ thus far and will exceed 9-10k’ in May-Jun.

Caveats:

1. DUI had gear problems early on... that’s been resolved... just be sure you buy the ‘Toyota Version”, to get the correct gear.
2. There are three Toyota DUIs... I bought the one (blue cap) with the vacuum advance module.
3. DUI’s cap is large... I removed my heaters a couple of years back. So, no problem. Those with heaters may need to relocate the heater pipe that runs along the block side cover.
4. All the electronics (coil, etc.) are in/on the cap... I carry FULL spares, for an easy swap, in an emergency.
5. Easy access to new parts ... as @Steamer said.
6. Their use of nylon screws prevent arcing... but, do NOT overtighten them... as me how I know.

I was preparing an order when I found a several month-old ad, on MUD. I PMd the guy and worked out a great deal, for the NIB DUI, a set of LiveWire plug wires and everything needed for installation.

I added a relay, to deliver full battery to the DUI and, the results are excellent!!

 

[cuencanolenny]

I love my DUI, for several reasons.

My stock ‘78 dissy’s Vac Advance was still “working”, but was also the source of my vacuum leak... robbing 44 of power... especially as altitude increased.

I couldn’t find a new vac advance module... I couldn’t find a new dissy, with a new vac advance module, that I was comfortable driving into ‘nowhere’... I couldn’t find a method for resealing the vac advance module, that I was comfortable driving into “nowhere”.

So, I started researching alternatives... and DUI won out...

1. A DUI replaces the dissy, coil and igniter... and requires NOT using the “fat” BY wire, on my ‘78... it has the “fat” pink Yazuki resister wire spliced into it.
2. DUI runs “fully battery power”, so plugs are gapped at .055” and timing is set to about 12*BTDC.
3. Increase in power is significant... in tests, I’ve found I can cruise at 70mph... even fully loaded and uphill. Of course, some of the power increase is attributable to plugging that vacuum leak. Note: I seldom exceed 60... but, it sure is nice to merge into freeway traffic, rather than merely becoming a target.
4. No power loss at altitude... I’ve driven above 7k’ thus far and will exceed 9-10k’ in May-Jun.

Caveats:

1. DUI had gear problems early on... that’s been resolved... just be sure you buy the ‘Toyota Version”, to get the correct gear.
2. There are three Toyota DUIs... I bought the one (blue cap) with the vacuum advance module.
3. DUI’s cap is large... I removed my heaters a couple of years back. So, no problem. Those with heaters may need to relocate the heater pipe that runs along the block side cover.
4. All the electronics (coil, etc.) are in/on the cap... I carry FULL spares, for an easy swap, in an emergency.
5. Easy access to new parts ... as @Steamer said.
6. Their use of nylon screws prevent arcing... but, do NOT overtighten them... as me how I know.

I was preparing an order when I found a several month-old ad, on MUD. I PMd the guy and worked out a great deal, for the NIB DUI, a set of LiveWire plug wires and everything needed for installation.

I added a relay, to deliver full battery to the DUI and, the results are excellent!!

I'm looking forward to reading your experience at altitude. I live in Cuenca, Ecuador, 8,440 ft. and frequently go 12-14,000 ft and it has no power. It is frustrating as the little 2.0L fuel injected cars just zip by me, and I pay a penalty for having such a large engine ($700 a year because it is 4.2L and the baseline engine size is 1.6L). Are you running an Aisan carburetor? Did you change to the high altitude jets? The final question is which distributor did you go with as you refer to three available. Thanks, I appreciate your candor.

 

[FJ40Jim]

Ok forgive me here but.
I have the pertronix one and a firecracker or whatever they call it aftermarket hot coil that I would like to replace with OEM. The truck is a 1975. So can I use a 1975 coil and igniter package for that? The distributor that I'm using is what they call the non USA which I gather is just a 69 to 71 or whatever distributor.

Yes, the 75-77 USA ignitor/coil package works with any points distributor.

 

[brian]

Yes, the 75-77 USA ignitor/coil package works with any points distributor.

with the pertronix in the dissy?

 

[FJ40Jim]

Points is points.

Pertronix is breakerless electronic ignition.