OEM ring gear and pinion 41201-69166 -> 41201-80527 ? (1 Viewer)

[Eurasiaoverland]

Hi All

I'm expecting to need a new rear ring gear and pinion.

The original set, 41201-69166 has, according to Megazip been superseded by 41201-80527.

Has anyone confirmed that -80527 is a straight swap? Does it run the same bearings, seals, flange etc? I tried to run the part number in the EPC and it seems this part was never fitted to vehicles from factory, so I cannot see what other gear it runs with.

I've seen some aftermarket sets from vendors on here but they seem to be 41:10 rather than 37:9. I do not want to go this route. I understand the difference is tiny but I'm quite uncompromising on keeping things original.

I would be very grateful if someone could chime in!

Thanks

EO

 

[OGBeno]

That is correct.

41201-69166 supersedes to and is replaced with 41201-80527 which is still available from Toyota.

It will be a direct fit. The part numbering difference is due to factory installed gear set part number vs. service part replacement gear set part number.

This happens all of the time with these parts that are now over 40 years old almost since their manufacture.

 

[Eurasiaoverland]

That is correct.

41201-69166 supersedes to and is replaced with 41201-80527 which is still available from Toyota.

It will be a direct fit. The part numbering difference is due to factory installed gear set part number vs. service part replacement gear set part number.

This happens all of the time with these parts that are now over 40 years old almost since their manufacture.

Thank you very much Onur, I was hoping for a response from you

The Megazip website threw me as it listed a bunch of flanges, oil slingers, oil seal etc which made me wonder if it needed other parts to be replaced, but a direct fit sounds perfect, just what I want if it turns out, as I suspect, that I need these.

All the best,

EO

 

[Eurasiaoverland]

Hi Onur

Re-visiting this as I am close to ordering. Debating whether to try 41201-80527.

I mistakenly made an inquiry with Amayama for 41201-69155 (a typo, this is a 37:10 set, where I want 37:9) but they came back with a supersession to 4120180521+4120460050+4121460020+9036633006+903664(message ends).

What worries me about this is the 33 mm outer pinion bearing.

Could it be that 41201-80527 also requires a 33 mm bearing? (original on the 60 was 30 mm), or is it really identical to 41201-69166?

Thanks,

EO

 

[Eurasiaoverland]

Perhaps I have a different understanding of the term 'direct fit' but as a warning to anyone planning to buy this, 41201-80527 is not, according to my research, identical to 41201-69166.

I cautiously ordered -69166 from Amayama and they intially told me I would receive -69166, now they have -80527 on hand and have confirmed that the outer pinon bearing is 33 mm. The original bearing size is 30 mm. I can see from photos that the splined area of the shaft (where the flange sits) is larger.

As far as I can tell this means that is is not compatible with the original 60's
-Inner and outer pinion bearings
-Crush sleeve
-Oil slinger
-Drive flange
-Oil seal
-Lock nut

In addition to this, I wonder if all the necessary hardware will even fit the 60's original diff housing. I'm not really willing to put over $1000 into finding out if this is the case.

EO

 

[4runner2FJ60]

I was gonna say, with the price from Toyota on that ring gear, I wouldn't give it a second thought, just call Cruiser Outfitters or Valley Hybrids!

 

[Eurasiaoverland]

I was gonna say, with the price from Toyota on that ring gear, I wouldn't give it a second thought, just call Cruiser Outfitters or Valley Hybrids!

Does their stuff run with all the original hardware? I'm not keen on non genuine stuff but once again, Toyota seem to have taken a dump on classic owners.

Unfortunately Cruiseroutfitters only has a 41:10 set, no 37:9, and that's a no-go for me.

 

[4runner2FJ60]

Hmmmmm I am a little surprised I guess. I didn't know 3.7s were hard to find. I am about to regear my front to 4:10. I bet the ring and pinion are in great shape being the front if you are interested? I think the aftermarket Sumo gear...etc are good replacements if you can find the 3.7s. $1,200 for the toyota ring is $$$$$ a lot!

 

[cruisermatt]

Does their stuff run with all the original hardware? I'm not keen on non genuine stuff but once again, Toyota seem to have taken a dump on classic owners.

Unfortunately Cruiseroutfitters only has a 41:10 set, no 37:9, and that's a no-go for me.

it's 4.10 vs 4.11:1, it's 0.0024% difference, it is 100% fine and people have been doing it for decades including myself. There is far more tire slip then that during normal driving

 

[cruisermatt]

Hmmmmm I am a little surprised I guess. I didn't know 3.7s were hard to find. I am about to regear my front to 4:10. I bet the ring and pinion are in great shape being the front if you are interested? I think the aftermarket Sumo gear...etc are good replacements if you can find the 3.7s. $1,200 for the toyota ring is $$$$$ a lot!

37:9 is 4.11, not 3.70's

 

[4runner2FJ60]

37:9 is 4.11, not 3.70's

@cruisermatt I was thought he was looking for 3.70.....my bad.

 

[Eurasiaoverland]

Hmmmmm I am a little surprised I guess. I didn't know 3.7s were hard to find. I am about to regear my front to 4:10. I bet the ring and pinion are in great shape being the front if you are interested? I think the aftermarket Sumo gear...etc are good replacements if you can find the 3.7s. $1,200 for the toyota ring is $$$$$ a lot!

3.70 to 1 (which is 37:10, not 37:9) is not common in my part of the world. I am planning on putting a powerful 4 cylinder diesel in the vehicle with a lot of low-end torque and would honestly have switched to 3.70 to 1 if it was not very costly, for lower highway engine speeds. But I have a perfect font factory 37:9 diff rebuilt here so for now I am sticking with this ratio.

it's 4.10 vs 4.11:1, it's 0.0024% difference, it is 100% fine and people have been doing it for decades including myself. There is far more tire slip then that during normal driving

I know the difference in ratios is trivial (though not as small as you quote), but I have aftermarket 37:9 options so there is no need for me to consider it, unless they fall through. Maybe it's cheaper in the US to go with 41:10 but here I am shipping in regardless, so better get a 37:9 set from Australia or Japan. I am here to restore a vehicle to original condition and don't want to make compromises where I can.

As for the calculation: (37/9) / (41/10) = 37 / (9 x 4.1) = 37 / 36.9 = 1.00271. As a percentage, that is 0.271 %. Still trivial and comparable to uneven tyre wear though.

 

[cruisermatt]

I forgot to multiple by 100

 

[Eurasiaoverland]

I considered my options for replacing the rear ring gear, they were as follows:

The original 41201-69166 is no longer available. There is one for sale on ebay.it but after some (slow) messaging with the seller, it was clear he is rather delusional about the value of what he's sitting on. One crappy picture on ebay, no additional hardware (bolts, crush tube, nut, seal) meant there was no way I was trusting this guy to supply such an expensive part.

Aftermarket 37:9 - after some research in Japan and Australia - there is a Joint Fuji / Terrain Tamer kit but by all reports the quality is pretty poor - a trusted contact tried to set one, reported poor machining and couldn't run a good pattern. Also reported very soft threads on the pinion shaft. So that's a no.

Aftermarket 41:10 - THe US suppled aftermarket ring and pinion sets seem to get good reviews. But wrong ratio (and thinner teeth). I'm sure plenty of people run these without issues, but it's not for me.

So, back to 41201-80527. After careful cross-referencing checks in the EPC, I am pretty certain that this is compatible with the old 60 hpusing/diff carrier, with all the additional hardware. Amayama advised me that there was no official supersession and even returned the first set to the supplier. But given my options I decided to go ahead and run with it.

And here it is.

The additional hardware bag (bolts, nuts, oil seal 90311-45028, crush tube 41231-60040, pinion shaft nut 90179-22029) gets its own label.

Factory has run a pattern in some red lead.

4.11 ratio, production date 6th September 2022.

I heated up the ring gear and dropped it onto the rear LSD carrier (actually from a late 80 series) and can confirm that it fits perfectly.

EO

 

[Eurasiaoverland]

The main difference between 41201-80527 and -69166 is that the pinion shaft has been beefed-up to 100 series specifications, that is, an increase in width at the outer pinion shaft bearing journal from 30 to 33 mm, and an increase in spline count from 29 to 32. This, in my opinion, is a welcome upgrade as these splines seem to be the weak point of the rear diff.

The tapered roller bearings have therefore changed:

The inner bearing is still 40 mm, but the outer is now 33 mm. Both have a steeper taper angle, and are therefore taller. The outer width remains the same however, so they fit the 60 housing perfectly. These bearings are made by NSK, compared to the Koyo originals.

Taller bearings, same housing means a shorter crush tube. Here the comparison of 41231-60040 (100 series) with -60020 (60 series).

The drive flange obviously needs to change too. Here is my only uncertainy. 41204-60060 is the 100 series drive flange, but for some reason dear Toyota have already discontinued this.

-60060 seems to supersede to -60080 which is from the very latest 70 series and 200 series Landcruisers. The bolt hole pattern is the same as the 60/70/80/100 series. The difference seems to be in that low profile dust deflector which has no swage for the oil seal lip. The flange is 32 spline, with a 45 mm diameter sealing surface, compared to the 38 mm of the 60/80 series flanges.

So we are looking at a supersession in a supersession. According to this great article from Drive2.ru (the guy really knows his Toyota diffs) the 100 series oil seal, 90311-45028, which comes with the ring and pinion kit, needs to be changed for the 200 series oil seal, 90311-45036. This comes in its own little blister pack and is made in Japan, unlike the 60/80/100 series seals which are made in Vietnam.

So my only uncertainty is how the flange dust deflector sits compared to the 60 housing. I need to do a bit more assembly before reporting back.

EO

 

[Eurasiaoverland]

With the bearings all pressed on and the pinion shaft installed, here is what it looks like at the flange:

It's not a perfect fit but good enough. I bought a 100 series dust deflector to see if I could put it on the 200 series flange, but no chance, the 200 series flange is wider where the deflector presses on, plus the 100 series deflector is much taller. But that's the only downside (apart from cost) of this arrangement of keeping it original ratio, all genuine parts.

So that's a 60 Series housing with -80527 ring an pinion, 100 series bearings, crush tube and pinion shaft nut and 200 series flange and oil seal (though it hads not yet been fitted - this is the interim fitting of the shaft/flange to set the ring gear backlash and carrier bearing pre-load.

Sadly, after fitting my new ring gear, I realised that my 80 series LSD carrier does not run true. And AMayama just got back to me to say that the carrier is no longer produced by dear Toyota. So no chance of bolting this all up any time soon

EO

 

[Reinhardtius]

Just cracking open this thread. I am going to replace my own R and P on my 70 series with these parts, given that the original final gear kit was the same PN as yours.

Anything I need to know going into this beyond the useful information already described?

 

[Eurasiaoverland]

Just cracking open this thread. I am going to replace my own R and P on my 70 series with these parts, given that the original final gear kit was the same PN as yours.

Anything I need to know going into this beyond the useful information already described?

That's a very vague question to follow a lot of specific information. If you mean to ask if I have come across any more issues with running this ring and pinion, then no. All the parts I mention above fit together and the differential ran fine on the bench, apart from the runout. I have a new LSD centre in Russia but it's not exactly the easiest place to ship out of these days, so I have not got any further than the above steps, though to me it already proves the concept. Nevertheless, buy at your own risk. As mentioned, this in not an official Toyota supersession, as far as I know.

EO

 

[Reinhardtius]

The additional hardware bag (bolts, nuts, oil seal 90311-45028, crush tube 41231-60040, pinion shaft nut 90179-22029) gets its own label.

Did these items come with the final gear kit or were they purchased a la carte?

 

[Eurasiaoverland]

Did these items come with the final gear kit or were they purchased a la carte?

They are part of the final gear kit.