Novice locker install (1 Viewer)

[highfructose]

Would anyone happen to know precisely what the guy in this video is marking with a punch around 2:24 into the video?

I get the bearing caps and where they attach…but is he also marking the actual bearings inside as well? So the bearings are placed in the proper orientation when it goes back together?



For anyone seeking to add a rear locker that may not have ever done it before, I think the attached orientation for the dial indicator ($35 on Amazon) gave me a good reading.

The 4.10 diff/3rd member was only like $310 shipped (less than 100k miles on a mid 2000’s 100 series)…the front 4.10 diff from a 2010+ tundra was only $180 shipped…

supposedly 3 hours or so of labor to get the locker installed…which if you have an extra 3rd member, you can do at your leisure.

Supposedly only 3 hours of labor total to pull and replace the existing rear 3rd member…

supposedly only 5 hours of labor to pull and replace the existing front 3rd member.

$200 for a medium sized harbor freight press that I may be able to sell afterwards.

if you’re sticking with 33” tires and sort of want a locker, it appears to be a no brainer…this will be the most complicated mechanical repair/upgrade I’ve ever attempted though.

Any assistance/pointers appreciated.

 

[Fisher23]

Would anyone happen to know precisely what the guy in this video is marking with a punch around 2:24 into the video?

He is just marking Left and Right bearings. Sure you can re-use them but myself I put in new bearings and seals.

 

[NikP]

Locker install isn't a very technical task really. A couple hours at the most once it's on the bench. A matter of getting bearing load correct as long as you don't do anything with your pinion. I've done it without the press. I place the bearing in my freezer and It'll slide on easily.

I'm more worried about the extensive rust in your third member.

 

[bloc]

I'm more worried about the extensive rust in your third member.

Agreed. Any pro that would be expected to warranty their work would take one look at this and go “nope.”

 

[TimCFJ40]

I haven't done a Toyota Axle, but I have done gears and lockers on a Dana 44 (Much harder than Toyota) and Ford 9" (about the same). Take your time and replace the bearings no matter what. I'd recommend a set of clamshell bearing pullers in addition to the press.

As to the rusty 3rd member, if you're putting in a locker and new bearings and seals it's nothing to worry about. That little bit of rust on the gears will be long gone after the first mile. You should change the oil after break in anyway.

 

[bloc]

I don't like that he torques the bearing cap bolts then removes them one at a time for loc-tite with the other cap bolt still torqued. Not good for cast parts such as these.

As to the rusty 3rd member, if you're putting in a locker and new bearings and seals it's nothing to worry about. That little bit of rust on the gears will be long gone after the first mile. You should change the oil after break in anyway.

The video outlines leaving the pinion bearings and seal in place to simplify setup.

 

[highfructose]

He is just marking Left and Right bearings. Sure you can re-use them but myself I put in new bearings and seals.

One of the “races” (I think that’s what it’s called) bearings looks a bit rusty and there’s like 94k miles on this diff so I’m thinking I will replace the bearings.

Would anyone happen to have a reccomendation for a brand of bearings and seals kit?

 

[highfructose]

Locker install isn't a very technical task really. A couple hours at the most once it's on the bench. A matter of getting bearing load correct as long as you don't do anything with your pinion. I've done it without the press. I place the bearing in my freezer and It'll slide on easily.

I'm more worried about the extensive rust in your third member.

Your post has me considering removing the rust. It’s definitely surface rust-this diff has been sitting in my central Florida garage for perhaps a year…

What would you recommend is a smart tool to clean up the rust?

And would you recommend I then paint the rust free portions of bare metal afterwards?

 

[highfructose]

Agreed. Any pro that would be expected to warranty their work would take one look at this and go “nope.”

What portions of the third member may have been unduly weakened by the rust?

 

[bloc]

What portions of the third member may have been unduly weakened by the rust?

If the pinion bearings look at all like those gears you will have a grenade in that diff in somewhere between a few hundred and few thousand miles.

You may gain some insight by inspecting the carrier bearings when you replace them, but assuming the pinion bearings are the same is a big assumption. Only way to be sure is to pull the pinion to inspect those bearings, which adds a lot of work to the job. That said if the bearings are good you can just put it all back together and since there are no changes you could even reuse the pinion nut and tighten it to the same spot and in theory drive on.

End of day a diff that looks like that should raise big red flags.

 

[highfructose]

If the pinion bearings look at all like those gears you will have a grenade in that diff in somewhere between a few hundred and few thousand miles.

You may gain some insight by inspecting the carrier bearings when you replace them, but assuming the pinion bearings are the same is a big assumption. Only way to be sure is to pull the pinion to inspect those bearings, which adds a lot of work to the job. That said if the bearings are good you can just put it all back together and since there are no changes you could even reuse the pinion nut and tighten it to the same spot and in theory drive on.

End of day a diff that looks like that should raise big red flags.

I don’t have anything to compare it to, but the pinion looks ok enough maybe. That brown on the front actually looks like it might be paint. There are some painted letters on it and the orange isn’t rough to the touch.

There was a bit of surface pitting on the races though.

My plan is to get a diff rebuild kit. I think they’re like $200. I need to figure out 100% which one fits though.

 

[bloc]

There not being any visible corrosion on the bearing roller ends is encouraging, but I'd still want to be absolutely sure.. and that requires pulling the pinion.

Keep in mind that a diff rebuild kit will mean setting up the diff and pattern as if it's new. The existing shims will be a good starting point but you will have to assemble it, check pattern, (see Zuk's pictures), adjust shims, etc. You'll need a good bearing splitter and heavy duty press.

The lesson here is source a good diff if attempting what is done in the video.

 

[highfructose]

There not being any visible corrosion on the bearing roller ends is encouraging, but I'd still want to be absolutely sure.. and that requires pulling the pinion.

Keep in mind that a diff rebuild kit will mean setting up the diff and pattern as if it's new. The existing shims will be a good starting point but you will have to assemble it, check pattern, (see Zuk's pictures), adjust shims, etc. You'll need a good bearing splitter and heavy duty press.

The lesson here is source a good diff if attempting what is done in the video.

True, if attempting what’s in the video, good quality diff is a good idea.

I think my path is going to take me comparable to what teckis300 did…and I’ll probably end up taking the conservative advice offered here, namely: replace all bearings.

While it would be nice to save $200 on not buying new bearings/seals…a cursory review online indicates horror stories such as a reusing of even 5k old bearings sometimes leads to catastrophe not far down the road.
Considering I hope to not have to remove these diffs or work on them again for 250k miles (arb locker willing), I plan to attempt to replace all bearings with new.

That being said: does anyone happen to have advice on whether going with a crush sleeve for the pinion is a better idea than using a solid spacer with shims?


As an update to the thread for any other novice seeking a locker install:

After checking existing backlash (which I believe was around 8 thousandths), removal of the bolts holding the carrier/chunk in was easy.

Removing the ring gear bolts started out relatively easy but then I came across a couple that didn’t want to come out with my electric impact.

The impact gun was a must in my opinion to remove these ring gear bolts.

In hindsight, I should have been fully conscious that there was loctite on these. Even though 10 of 12 came out relatively easily, the last two sort of wrecked by harbor freight 17mm impact socket…and the bolts themselves rounded off a little as well.

Had I just gassed the bolts with a map torch, I would have had zero issues…learning to mechanic…

Once those bolts were wrecked, the internet told me I could use a dremel to take the “washer” off the bolts and remove their “grab” onto the carrier…thereby reducing the amount of torque it would take to remove them.

I did that…still wouldn’t come off even with new socket (harbor freight easy lifetime warranty)…after removing the washer from the bolt as well as taking a hammer and chisel to the corner of the bolt to try to force it to move a bit…thereby also altering the diameter of the bolt head somewhat, I was able to use the torch and the new socket to remove the buggered bolts.

Lesson learned: know what bolts tend to have loctite and use the torch.

I happen to have an extra 3rd member and was able to very easily extract two new ring gear bolts by hitting them with the torch and using a fresh 17mm socket on an impact gun to remove them.

 

[bloc]

If you haven’t already, spend a few hours pouring over Zuk’s install writeups. They don’t even have to be Toyota 9.5” specific, as a lot of the hardware on 8” chunks is really similar. Likewise, any 9.5” from a 60/80/100 would be almost a carbon copy for your 200, if there aren’t a lot of those. You should get all kinds of little details like the loctite on the ring gear bolts.

As for spacer vs crush sleeve, reusing bearings would make dialing in the spacer while anticipating bearing break-in super easy, but that won’t necessarily be an option for you. As I remember it the big risk in running a crush sleeve is hammering the pinion flange on a rock or something and that compressing the sleeve further allowing pinion play and the resulting problems. If you don’t see yourself doing that, it should be fine. Many, many people are wheeling pretty hard with the stock crush sleeve..

I don’t know what most of the people on here running gears have done.. they’d have to speak up.

 

[bloc]

Also, I’d consider getting new ring gear bolts. These things are a very high grade part and the heat from loosening the loctite might be enough to alter the heat treat.

Plus to do things truly right you should chase the threads in the ring gear before torquing the new ones. The old loctite can alter the clamping force for a given torque.

 

[TeCKis300]

As for spacer vs crush sleeve, reusing bearings would make dialing in the spacer while anticipating bearing break-in super easy, but that won’t necessarily be an option for you. As I remember it the big risk in running a crush sleeve is hammering the pinion flange on a rock or something and that compressing the sleeve further allowing pinion play and the resulting problems. If you don’t see yourself doing that, it should be fine. Many, many people are wheeling pretty hard with the stock crush sleeve..

I don’t know what most of the people on here running gears have done.. they’d have to speak up.

I debated this as well. Figured with how few (none, at least due to this?) have had diff problems, there was no point to chase better. Perhaps on a race rig.

Stock crush spacer

 

[highfructose]

For anyone looking to do a gear or locker install and sort of figure it out as you go, this website appears to be zuk’s…it has a series of picture laden stories of locker and gear installs…for a novice this is an excellent resource.

Toyota Gear Install Eaton

ZUK shares many close-up good pics of Toyota gear installs

www.gearinstalls.com

 

[highfructose]

Zuk appeared to use a chisel and hammer to remove whatever the main rubber/metal seal was in one of his articles…that worked pretty easily. Bearings and metal and what not in there were in good shape…but that rubber on the seal was, at this point, approaching 20 years in age…best practice I think is to go ahead and replace the seal (and likely all the bearings and races as well-for something meant to last 25 years, there doesn’t seem to be a good argument to save $200 and reuse seals, bearings, and races)

 

[highfructose]

Would anyone happen to know whether this harbor freight race driver kit would work for our rear diff?

Bearing Race and Seal Driver Set, 10-Piece

Amazing deals on this 10Pc Bearing Race And Seal Driver Set at Harbor Freight. Quality tools & low prices.

www.harborfreight.com

 

[supercarrera]

I think I got something very similar off Amazon for a lot less money. I use these a lot with my cheap HF press. It works well a lot of the time but sometimes you won't have the right size you need so you'll have to figure out a way to improvise with other stuff you have around the shop like old bearing races etc.