Not your Standard Capabilities Question (1 Viewer)

[BlckHwk23]

Hey everyone. Happy to be back. I was on this forum briefly when I owned my 5th gen 4Runner. So on to the discussion.

I’m on a waitlist with my local dealer. I’ve place a refundable deposit on either the First Edition or Land Cruiser Trim.

I currently own a Canyon AT4X, which is fun to drive but has minimal backseat space, and limited range (350 miles per tank). I intend on taking a trip out West after summer next year. My planned route takes me over some mountain passes (Blackbear Pass, Imogene, Red Cone) into Moab, and other parks in Utah.

I KNOW the AT4X can accomplish this without much difficulty in stock form. What I don’t know is if the Landcruiser can do the same. Ideally I’d like to only add bigger tires for slightly more ground clearance and remove the front air dam when it’s time to hit the trails.

Based on known approach and departure angles does anyone think the passes and Moab can be done with only tires and the front dam removal? My only point of reference right now is watching 4Runners complete the trails on YouTube but it’s so difficult to know if they’ve been modified to improve their ground clearance, or just have better tires. If I can get the Landcruiser to stock approach and departure angles for a 4Runner I’d feel better but I’m still not sure it would make the trip without some significant battle scars.

 

[Jetboy]

None of the places in Colorado you've mentioned should be any real challenge at all for a stock LC250. You can do all of them in most any stock 4x4 with reasonably decent driving. You should not have issues with bumper dragging or body damage if you pay attention driving.

Moab depends a lot on the trail. You'll almost certainly scrape up the bumpers on moderate moab trails like hell's revenge or even Fins and Things. The rear more than the front. You would do the same in the Canyon, maybe moreso. You should get around them no-problem even on stock tires at stock height. But expect to leave some bumper paint/plastic shavings on the rocks unless you're a very careful driver.

If you go more toward trails like Poison Spider Mesa or Gold Bar Rim, you might start to run into more trouble stock with the bumpers dragging a lot. And gold bar rim you'll really want a winch for one tricky spot. Going beyond that gets more challenging. But you can see a lot of great stuff and go have a lot of fun stock around Moab. I've done all of those trails in a 2015 4Runner with about 2 inches of lift and 34" tall tires, rock sliders, a winch and rear bumper skids. I did drag bumpers in various places and the only time I've ever used a winch in moab was on gold bar rim at a very big rock ledge. It's not a clearance issue, just too big of a rock for the wheelbase. I used a winch to go down it too. If you want to go play on the harder stuff - you can rent a wrangler on 37's for a day for about $500 or a UTV.

In all of those trails, I'm not talking rip the bumper off type of damage, but mostly just scratching it up as it touches the rocks. They're very abrasive. Supposedly the bumper skins on the new LC are cheap and easy to swap on purpose for when you scratch them up. I guess that's the idea behind the black plastic rear bumper not being painted. It's $150 or whatever it is for a new bumper cover and they're all black so you don't need to pay for paint. I kinda like that idea.

 

[Rednexus]

I hit up Moab and several of the passes in the San Juans in my GX when it was stock other than skids, sliders, and tires. I did air down before each trail. No issues, only one tiny scrape on the bottom of my front bumper and I drug my skids some. ATRAC did a great job when I needed it. However, I did see some folks struggling with rigs built similar or a bit more than mine - it's all about off-roading experience and picking the right line. I off-roaded in a Subaru for over a decade and got very good at that, so even a stock GX/4Runner/LC is a cakewalk. I would, however, absolutely spring for the rear locker and plan on upgrading the tires to a good set of AT's rather than whatever they have stock, plus getting set up with an air source (onboard or portable compressor).

We're heading back out in 2024 and I'm looking forward to how easy these trails will be with a lift and 33s at that point.

 

[Phillyd2]

I would do skids plates and sliders before tires but all three would be best.

As JB correctly said, it depends on the trails you decide to do but there are plenty that could easily be done.

I would also let the trails remove the front plastic for you or at least tell you when its time, but that's just me.

 

[BlckHwk23]

None of the places in Colorado you've mentioned should be any real challenge at all for a stock LC250. You can do all of them in most any stock 4x4 with reasonably decent driving. You should not have issues with bumper dragging or body damage if you pay attention driving.

Wow! I would have sworn the LC would run out of approach on the steps on Blackbear based on the videos I’ve watched. Good to know.

 

[BlckHwk23]

I would do skids plates and sliders before tires but all three would be best.

As JB correctly said, it depends on the trails you decide to do but there are plenty that could easily be done.

I would also let the trails remove the front plastic for you or at least tell you when its time, but that's just me.

Yeah that’s why I’m hoping to get a first edition. It comes with an extra skid and Rick rails from the factory,

 

[Jetboy]

Should be no problem on approach angle. Normally you can take approaches at a bit of an angle and the bumper design plus wheels turned a bit ends up with a very good effective approach angle even if it's not excellent on a perfectly straight ahead situation. Where you run into trouble mostly is the really steep spots in Moab where you have to take the rock face straight on. Then it can be a bit more tricky.

I would have liked to see Toyota push the wheels out further to improve the approach and departure angles. The rear is limited by having the spare tire down there - you have to have enough rear frame to fit the spare between the rear axle and rear cross member, so it's a minimum of about 40 inches total behind the rear axle. But the front could be improved. Especially on the LC250 models where the sway bar is moved behind the front suspension. The front axle could have been pushed another 3-4 inches forward I think.

 

[Phillyd2]

Yeah that’s why I’m hoping to get a first edition. It comes with an extra skid and Rick rails from the factory,

The rock rails look ok but you should double check what kind of skid plates they will be using.

 

[BlckHwk23]

Should be no problem on approach angle. Normally you can take approaches at a bit of an angle and the bumper design plus wheels turned a bit ends up with a very good effective approach angle even if it's not excellent on a perfectly straight ahead situation. Where you run into trouble mostly is the really steep spots in Moab where you have to take the rock face straight on. Then it can be a bit more tricky.

I would have liked to see Toyota push the wheels out further to improve the approach and departure angles. The rear is limited by having the spare tire down there - you have to have enough rear frame to fit the spare between the rear axle and rear cross member, so it's a minimum of about 40 inches total behind the rear axle. But the front could be improved. Especially on the LC250 models where the sway bar is moved behind the front suspension. The front axle could have been pushed another 3-4 inches forward I think.

Likely had to do with packaging. From what I saw, the only pulley was for the water pump? The rest was all electrically powered and pushed forward in front of the engine

 

[BlckHwk23]

The rock rails look ok but you should double check what kind of skid plates they will be using.

Knowing Toyota likely aluminum or worse, composite. Hopefully additional heavy duty skids are part of the 150+ accessories set to release with the vehicle.

 

[Phillyd2]

Knowing Toyota likely aluminum or worse, composite. Hopefully additional heavy duty skids are part of the 150+ accessories set to release with the vehicle.

Yes, most likely which is why I mentioned it. Of course they could be good enough from the less challenging trails but I'm a very big fan of the best protection you can buy.

 

[Jetboy]

Toyota has a formula for off-road angles where they focus on matching approach, break over, and departure and also optimize for shorter wheelbase. Toyota seems to think the off-road obstacles are shaped like sine waves.

I'm not sure I agree with that philosophy. I think approach is more important than departure and both are more important than breakover. The UTV makers have it figured out. I think the LC would be better off with about 120" wheelbase on and off road.

 

[on the rocks]

I KNOW the AT4X can accomplish this without much difficulty in stock form. What I don’t know is if the Landcruiser can do the same. Ideally I’d like to only add bigger tires for slightly more ground clearance and remove the front air dam when it’s time to hit the trails.

Of the 3 passes in Colorado, Redcone will be the most difficult. Make sure to watch the other two for closures. Heavier rain this year have been shutting them down. COTREX is a great resource. All 3 are late July to August runs and if you do that run mid summer, Moab will be brutal hot.
I personally wouldn't take the AT4X on Redcone, but would think the 250 would be fine with 33's min. It isn't too bad but the bottom portion is chunky boulder sections that are just a rough slow ride. Just make sure the IFS portion is armored up well. Sounds like you looking at newer vehicles so brakes are not an issue, but the decent is extremely steep. If your not into steep descents, you will not enjoy this section.
While there you can continue through Montezuma and over into Breckenridge over another pass that is a good drive. Plan a stay in Breck if you do. If you are able to get a 250 and get it on 35's and solid bust it up radical hill on the west side of Webster. That will certainly test your vehicle. The rest is pretty moderate if experienced.
I have all 3 on video years ago and really need to re-shoot them. I had horrible videos of all 3. The redcone video attached is the top section and really doesn't show how steep the decent is, not sure why I didn't get the bottom section. The first decent section and the end are crazy steep and why it is one way. If you want to be bored and watch it with your laptop on it's side lol, you will see the 4 wheelers walking it to make sure they want to descend it. Little do they know, there is no turning around by then.
Guessing if you want to travel across the country to run them, your pretty familiar with all.

 

[BlckHwk23]

Of the 3 passes in Colorado, Redcone will be the most difficult. Make sure to watch the other two for closures. Heavier rain this year have been shutting them down. COTREX is a great resource. All 3 are late July to August runs and if you do that run mid summer, Moab will be brutal hot.
I personally wouldn't take the AT4X on Redcone, but would think the 250 would be fine with 33's min. It isn't too bad but the bottom portion is chunky boulder sections that are just a rough slow ride. Just make sure the IFS portion is armored up well. Sounds like you looking at newer vehicles so brakes are not an issue, but the decent is extremely steep. If your not into steep descents, you will not enjoy this section.
While there you can continue through Montezuma and over into Breckenridge over another pass that is a good drive. Plan a stay in Breck if you do. If you are able to get a 250 and get it on 35's and solid bust it up radical hill on the west side of Webster. That will certainly test your vehicle. The rest is pretty moderate if experienced.
I have all 3 on video years ago and really need to re-shoot them. I had horrible videos of all 3. The redcone video attached is the top section and really doesn't show how steep the decent is, not sure why I didn't get the bottom section. The first decent section and the end are crazy steep and why it is one way. If you want to be bored and watch it with your laptop on it's side lol, you will see the 4 wheelers walking it to make sure they want to descend it. Little do they know, there is no turning around by then.
Guessing if you want to travel across the country to run them, your pretty familiar with all.

I appreciate the vote of confidence, but as they say, ignorance is bliss. I have not run these trails before, only watched videos of runs with step by step breakdowns. Your videos are really helpful to see what else I may have missed.

 

[elbarto]

Most of the passes (black bear, Imogene) I think would be easier in the LC than the canyon, since the wheelbase is shorter, and I think slightly narrower. My understanding is are shelf roads with switch backs, which is why I live in CO but admittedly haven’t done either in my Power Wagon (and partly why I am looking to sell my PW for a 250…a lot of the trails in CO are not suited for long wheelbase/wide vehicles)

 

[APIOQM]

Knowing Toyota likely aluminum or worse, composite. Hopefully additional heavy duty skids are part of the 150+ accessories set to release with the vehicle.

Are these supposed to be Toyota accessories? I don’t recall seeing anything about this in the press release. I would love if I could get the First Edition mud flaps for the 1958.

 

[Jetboy]

The FJ cruiser rock sliders were decent. They'd be fine on any of those trails. As would the OEM skids. Those trails have challenges here and there. But they're nothing at all like the Rubicon or Johnson valley in terms of how those places abuse your vehicle. For the places you're wanting to go, I think the OEM sliders will be fine. As will the OEM skids.

 

[BlckHwk23]

Are these supposed to be Toyota accessories? I don’t recall seeing anything about this in the press release. I would love if I could get the First Edition mud flaps for the 1958.

Sorry got a little overzealous with the number. It’s 100 and counting according to Toyota’s press release

 

[jdam]

Are these supposed to be Toyota accessories? I don’t recall seeing anything about this in the press release. I would love if I could get the First Edition mud flaps for the 1958.

They're supposed to be aftermarket accessories validated by Toyota and able to be installed at the dealer/included in financing/warranty. Think ARB, Dometic, etc. but available at the dealer.

 

[Phillyd2]

They're supposed to be aftermarket accessories validated by Toyota and able to be installed at the dealer/included in financing/warranty. Think ARB, Dometic, etc. but available at the dealer.

Right. Seems to be just regular stuff that can be bought from amazon but without special branding.

Hopefully real vehicle specific items will follow at some point.