My TBI adventure...so far (1 Viewer)

[alex e]

I need to connect the SBC (painless) harness to my perfect 2F harness and don't really know where to start....any tips for a wiring newb? The engine was sold to me with everything labelled even! I just don;t know where to start....PM me and maybe we can compare notes.

 

[cruiser enthuiser]

glad to hear its getting better!

Little neglected items like IAC and TPS make a world of difference once you dial them in.

Yes, indeed. Thanks for the tip .

Ed

 

[cruiser enthuiser]

Vehicle Speed Sensor Install

The last component of my TBI conversion went on today. I ordered a VSS from Stealth Conversions (Jags that Run). Here's a link to their site: Stealth Conversions Vehicle Speed Sensors for V8 Conversions. They make a groovy little piece that installs on the transfer case in front of the speedo cable, Part #2PRS-TOY. It's job is to tell the computer the relative speed of the vehicle. The beauty of this one is that it does not require any kind of VSS buffer. It wires straight into the ECM. Installation took all of 20 minutes.

I took it out for a test spin immediately. I was curious to see how it would affect engine performance. I know a lot of guys who have done TBI conversions did not bother with the VSS and I know others, Jim @ Downey foremost among them, who swear by it. Prior to the VSS install my engine sometimes was reluctant to drop into idle and would flash a VSS error code. I believe this was because the ECM did not recognize the vehicle was not moving. Anyway, my test run consisted of 25 minutes of around town driving with lots stop lights, modest traffic and plenty of idling. I did notice a general improvement in idle quality, particularly when decelerating. Not an earth-shaking improvement, but definately smoother.

I am also happy to say that it was my first real ride that produced no error codes!

Here's a couple of pics of the VSS.

 

[greencruiser]

hey just wondering what the fitting you used for the suction line on the tank is it metric or npt?

 

[cruiser enthuiser]

hey just wondering what the fitting you used for the suction line on the tank is it metric or npt?

Good question. I'm thinking it was NPT. It seems like a long time ago now.

 

[cruiser enthuiser]

Just For Fun

Here's something just for fun. My 12-yr old boy and I did a little wheeling today in the FJ40. First time I've had it off-road since completing the conversion and it did outstanding! We shot some video with our digital camera and had a good time putting together a little movie .

As a side note, back when I was running a carb I stalled once on the last up-hill shown in the movie. Carb flooded and then I could not get it re-started. Because of the incline (it's a lot steeper than it looks in the vid) it was a bit dicey getting her going again. I believe it was that day that I decided I'd had enough of that old carb.

Enjoy,
Ed



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=67hiNKtaXuk

 

[FJFOOL]

Ed, I've really enjoyed this "adventure", have learned a lot. Are you pleased with the way it turned out ?Thinking about doing this myself, thanks for answering a lot of questions !! Good video as well !

 

[cruiser enthuiser]

Ed, I've really enjoyed this "adventure", have learned a lot. Are you pleased with the way it turned out ?Thinking about doing this myself, thanks for answering a lot of questions !! Good video as well !

Glad you enjoyed it and man, I sure learned a lot too! It was my hope to contribute to the growing knowledge base that's out there already and create a thread with information that I would have wanted to know before getting into this.

Predictably, the conversion was more involved , more time-consuming and more expensive than I had planned on. Don't ask me for a total cost, I still haven't added up the receipts and I am reluctant to do so. However, I think anyone would be hard pressed to do a fuel injection conversion for much less than I did.

Driveability is night and day from my old carb. I have wheeled it several times (lightly) and driven around town a lot. In fact, I take any excuse to drive it now. It is responsive and reliable and I no longer worry about it flooding or not starting. I haven't checked mpg and doubt I will bother, although I'm sure it's improved. In short, it's been an amazing performance upgrade.

Knowing what I know now I wouldn't hesitate to do it again. My FJ60 has a very tired 2f in it so I've got my eye out for another 350 TBI. To anyone considering a TBI conversion I say: Do it! If I can, you can.

 

[fjnaz]

Ed, I can understand not wanting to add up the reciepts. I try to forget how much I've spent on my cruiser. And, to make it worse I've been considering TBI for my 78 2F.

Could you answer a question. Affordable Injection, Howell, TurboCity, and others have somewhat bolt in systems for $1200 (plus or minus) that include Dizzy's, Rebuilt TBI components, most sensors, wiring harness, and most importantly custom chips and chip support. I've read every TBI thread I can find and it seems like the cost of a do-it-yourself TBI ends up higher than people think.

Given your experience, effort, and expense which way would you recommend - Do-it-yourself like yours, or pre-packaged?

 

[badass]

cruiser enthuiser, i got a question for ya, are you running a STOCK UNPROGRAMMED GM 7747 ECM COMPUTER?

 

[trona]

Thanks for the input. I did figure out that the timing had to be set to zero (with that wire disconnected) however I'm still having some issues with it mis-firing and idling too high. I think part of my problem may be a very large vacuum leak that I completely ignored . Will post more on that later.




The E8153 was definately a mistake and I am replacing it - totally inadequate pressure. I will post an update on that as soon as the new pump is installed.

Make sure your fuel filter is after the pump not before causes cavitation on efi pumps especially when the fuel is hot.

 

[cruiser enthuiser]

Ed, I can understand not wanting to add up the reciepts. I try to forget how much I've spent on my cruiser. And, to make it worse I've been considering TBI for my 78 2F.

Could you answer a question. Affordable Injection, Howell, TurboCity, and others have somewhat bolt in systems for $1200 (plus or minus) that include Dizzy's, Rebuilt TBI components, most sensors, wiring harness, and most importantly custom chips and chip support. I've read every TBI thread I can find and it seems like the cost of a do-it-yourself TBI ends up higher than people think.

Given your experience, effort, and expense which way would you recommend - Do-it-yourself like yours, or pre-packaged?

I think the answer depends on how much work you want to do yourself. I was on a very tight budget for mine. I think the biggest single expense I avoided was a wiring harness. At the time I of my project a Painless harness was $380. Going through the stock GM harness was also the single biggest learning experience, and it was time consuming for a newb like me. However, I got the donor motor for only $100 which included the harness, all sensors, the dizzy, the ECM (computer) and of course the intake manifold. I did buy some new sensors: coolant temp sensor, IAC, oil pressure sender. Also changed the dizzy cap for new, new plugs, my wires were already new. Also rebuilt the throttle body and a few other little things. The parts really are abundant and if you shop around on-line you can find some great deals - I ordered a lot of parts from RockAuto.com who seemed to be consistently cheapest. I am sure my cost was well under $1,000 (my original estimate was $500-$600). I imagine that even with the pre-packaged kits there will be additional work and expense required when it's all said and done.

What I didn't plan for was the work I had to do once all the parts were bolted on. Adapting the TBI components to an early SBC is different than dropping in an entire TBI engine. There's a lot of tuning and messing around to do to get it to run right. You've got to get a scanner or a USB cable to run WINALDL on a computer. And while it runs great now, I know it could run better if I had a new chip burned (another unplanned for expense).

With all that said...if money were no object, or at least less of an object, I would probably buy a complete TBI engine and a Howell kit.

 

[cruiser enthuiser]

cruiser enthuiser, i got a question for ya, are you running a STOCK UNPROGRAMMED GM 7747 ECM COMPUTER?

Yes .


At least for now. I've been on the fence as to whether to invest in the chip programming hardware or pay someone do it for me. I have an FJ60 that I think will get TBI eventually and buying custom chips everytime I do some mod could get expensive. On the other hand, learning to program them looks pretty involved .

 

[cruiser enthuiser]

Make sure your fuel filter is after the pump not before causes cavitation on efi pumps especially when the fuel is hot.

I have a pre-pump filter and post-pump filter as recommended for in-line electric fuel pumps.

 

[jackbrad]

At one time I had entertained the idea of running the emissions stuff and, who knows, someday I might. Not for now. I removed the EGR and that other sensor that controls it (I forget the name right now). I installed a block-off plate and gasket. The plate came from Summit, about $12.

When I did the TBI conversion on my cruiser I left the EGR and sensor hooked up. Does the computer not give you error codes if you remove these pieces? If so did you have that programmed out?

Thanks this is a really helpful build thread.

Jack

 

[nicholastheczar]

Ed -

You have a PM.

Nick

 

[digger]

Did you run a 2 or 4 pulse vss? I can't get a straight answer from anyone on which one I need (currently running 2 pulse to a converter). I'm running the Toyota I6 w/ a tbi. My truck won't idle a/ dies when warmed up. It also sends the wrong speed to the ecm (speedo reads 60 mph, scanner reads 32 mph on the scanner). I'm scratching my head on this problem.

 

[FJFOOL]

He has a 2 pulse, from jagsthatrun.com, pt#2PRS-TOY. I use the same one.

 

[Alz Toy]

So, what to do about only getting 12 PSI? I understand that TBI should run a strong 13 PSI. I just couldn't believe that the new fuel pump was not performing. After some reading I came to understand that the fuel pressure regulater on the throttle body unit can cause a drop in PSI with age and wear. Since my unit is 21 years I figured it was a likely culprit and due for a rebuild. I ordered a TBI rebuild kit from Ebay for about $40. The throttle body is very simple. It only took 2-3 hours to break down the unit, carefully clean it and reassemble. Notice in the picture the old, worn diaphragm from the pressure regulator next to the new one.

Exellent write up, some things I've found. On the TBI rebuild kit, get p/n# 96-3013A. Its made by GP Sorensen and only $ 7.56 including tax from Autozone, as opposed to $35-40.00 elsewhere. I " bought " another kit, brought it home and noticed there wasn't a fuel pressure diafram in the kit. Called the autoparts store and they said it was an additional $40.00! Took it back and saved $30.00. TBI Parts on E Bay is run by DC Trumpet from Third Gen, hangs out in the TBI, and DIY Prom section, very helpful. Check out Moates if you think you'll get into tuning ( got my Autoprom there ). I'm at the point where I need to choose a fuel pump, and setup my fuel lines, and O2 systems. For a cheap laptop, check out Bob Johnson.com, I got a Panasonic Toughbook w/acc for $100. I'm using a '95 System with a 16197427 PCM so I can relate to your harness re work, there was roughly 17 wires just for the tranny alone to dump. Good work, gives me hope . Al

 

[digger]

I guess I should be running it straight to the ecm and not through the dakota digital converter? My ecm is not getting a correct speed reading from the vss. it is reading about half the speed I'm actually moving and doesn't even register until after 17mph. Would this problem give me the idle and stalling problems that I'm having also?