More paint, more problems (1 Viewer)

[ozarkmud]

I have a FJ80 in Dark Grey / Blue Grey (183) with peeling clearcoat. Local bodyshop is booked out, and would probably want about $10k to do the paint.

Is there a single stage version of Dark Grey / Blue Grey from Toyota or maybe another reputable manufacturer? Can I paint over top (when the clear coat is removed), or do I have to sand it down?

I'd consider switching to white since it's single stage, but I don't know if I can paint that over top, either. I think I'm going to have to do this at home.

I've heard of Maaco having terrible results, with a paint job that looked great for 6 months and started to rust (not an 80 series).

Thank you!

Related: What is your favorite color for factory paint in an 80 Series? - https://forum.ih8mud.com/threads/what-is-your-favorite-color-for-factory-paint-in-an-80-series.1318173/

 

[studawg]

Post a few pics

 

[Malleus]

"removing" the clearcoat is sanding, FWIW. You can't sand clearcoat off without sanding the paint under it.

Changing color is a matter of taste but it's not easy even if the new color will cover the old one; you either do it the way Maaco does it, poorly, by spraying the entire truck, barely masking parts, or paint the way Toyota did it, one part at a time. It depends on whether you want to disassemble your truck or not.

Just offering considerations for rumination.

 

[ozarkmud]

I'm sorry for the wait. Finally took those photos.

Makes sense about removing clearcoat through sanding. In this case it does flake off quite a bit on its own, but sanding is still probably the surest way to get it off.

 

[Marvelicious]

Mine is a bit better than that, but the same color and doing the same thing. I worked in a body shop for a few years when I was younger and I'll tell you from experience that I don't want to do it! Even a quick "scuff and shoot" that is aggressive enough to get rid of all the lifted clear is probably going to cut through to bare metal in some places - at that point you need to do primer. Also, your nice, shiny new paint will just call attention to every little door ding and gravel chip unless you do at least some body work.

My plan is to do a Monstaliner job (they have a gray that's not far off so the door jambs will more or less look okay) and move on with my life. I'm planning to remove all the lifted clear even to do the liner, but the texture should hide all the dings and whatnot.

I'd say you have three realistic options: shell out the money to have it done right, do something like I'm planning, or learn to live with it. I have look at a ton of DIY paint-jobs that, "look pretty good for doing it myself", and every one of them looked like a waste of time and materials to me. Maybe I'm just picky because I was in the business, but that's my 2 cents.

 

[LandLocked93]

Couldn't a good pressure washer speed things up a bit in terms of getting clear off?

 

[SHIfTHEAD]

So you can save a lot of money doing the prep yourself, but the downside is you will be without the use of the vehicle for a while. Remember, you can have two of these; quick, cheap and good. So you pick which two you want. If it's quick and good, it ain't gonna be cheap. So doing the prep yourself you can get cheap and good, but it will take a while. IMO, like Marvelicious said, new paint will highlight EVERY thing that is imperfect with the body, especially dark colors. Right now you have a matte finish that is actually hiding a lot of stuff that you can't see. So, if it were me and you could be without the car for a couple weeks, pick a time and strip every single thing off the body you can, including windows. Using a semi flexible block sander and some 400 grit paper go over all the big areas to see the low and high spots. Circle them with a sharpie. Then with the low spots scuff the paint with some 220grit paper and skim a little body filler in there. Less is more or you will be sanding for hours, but sand them down flat and keep doing that till the low spots are filled and level. On the high spots tap them with a small peen hammer to depress the metal and get them so they are just barely low spots and do the body filler trick again. The body filler should just be a couple millimeters at the most.

Now this process is what you'd use if you want it to look pretty good in a darker color. If you don't want to go all through that then I'd do a color change and paint it white. White hides A LOT of imperfections. All you would really need to do is sand through the bad clear coat and scuff up all the rest of the paint (including the door jambs) with something like 400 grit paper. It's important to scuff every bit of paint on the truck. If it's shiny and it's painted over it will eventually peel. Try to not go down to the metal, but if you do have some good quality rattle can primer (like something from Eastwoods) on hand to spray over the bare metal. Once that's all done and the body is prepped the body shop can do final preps and paint it. Remember to keep it inside while the prepping is happening. Primer isn't water proof, actually it will absorb water as it's porous in nature. So when you do drive it to the paint shop, make sure it's dry outside.

 

[ozarkmud]

Thank you for the great information! Lots to think about. Seems like maybe no good option. Not sure if I want to do truck bed liner or not.

It sounds like a very matte grey paint might work okay? Or are matte paints not going to be well sealed enough? I don't know a lot about paint.

Related but unrelated, I just noticed this on my '93 FZJ-80. I thought white was not supposed to have any clear coat? Or is it something else? I wonder if it was repainted in part or in whole.

 

[Marvelicious]

Looks like clear to me. I don't know about Toyota in the 90s specifically, but base-clear paint is generally just a better product, so it probably is. The white just probably doesn't fail like this as often because it's a light color and absorbs less heat. Another possibility is that it may have been repaired at one point with base-clear. It's fairly common to blend a repair onto adjacent panels to make up for any slight color variations.

This thread sold me on the liner...

The Monstalined 80's thread

Well, Looks like JCardona and I have both gone you know what deep and completely Monstalined our 80's recently. I know there's a plethora of others who have done sections of theirs, and others have lined their rigs with various different liners. Post your lined rig in this thread, color...

forum.ih8mud.com

 

[jpoole]

@ozarkmud Your '93 had no clear from the factory so that's a repair/respray in base-clear. Anywhere you see this type of delamination/failure was also repaired though hopefully the area is small and most of the paint is original. The single-stage paint, if there's enough of it left, cleans and polishes nicely.

 

[BILT4ME]

I'm sorry for the wait. Finally took those photos.

Makes sense about removing clearcoat through sanding. In this case it does flake off quite a bit on its own, but sanding is still probably the surest way to get it off.

View attachment 3479126View attachment 3479127View attachment 3479128

If you choose to do Monstaliner (or equivalent), realize that it will kill the resale value. There have been a couple folks here try to remove Monstaliner and they literally ended up with a grinder to remove it. Not easy, not cheap, and a TON of work if you decide later that you don't like it or want to sell it.

 

[Kernal]

No experience with wrapping a vehicle, just another option.

Seems like the biggest drawback is that it doesn't last as long as a standard paint job.

CAR WRAP VS PAINT: 11 REASONS TO WRAP YOUR CAR - SpeedPro

There are many benefits to wrapping a vehicle instead of painting it. Learn some of our favorite and contact your local SpeedPro for a free consult.

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Can Car Wraps be Repaired? | Wrap Guys

Learning about whether or not car wraps can be repaired can help you choose the best option after an accident. Call Wrap Guys today to see how we can help.

wrapguys.com

 

[Marvelicious]

If you choose to do Monstaliner (or equivalent), realize that it will kill the resale value. There have been a couple folks here try to remove Monstaliner and they literally ended up with a grinder to remove it. Not easy, not cheap, and a TON of work if you decide later that you don't like it or want to sell it.

I suppose that's a valid concern, though for my part I would value a well done liner in good shape over oem paint that's literally falling off. Neither is going to appeal to someone looking for an untouched garage queen. Different strokes, though at the very least it would limit the size of the resale market.

 

[Kernal]

Agree with Bilt4me, covering the body with liner would absolutely ruin the resale value of what is now a collectible vehicle and might limit the market to ~16-25 year old males. A cheapo respray would not help either IMO as when it fails it may need to be removed before repainting the whole vehicle correctly.

One more option, find a shop willing to adjust the price if you do a large chunk of the prep work ie: remove/reinstall everything attached to the body including the fender flares, door handles, belt molding, weather stripping, grill, headlamps, tail lights, etc,etc

 

[Marvelicious]

...and might limit the market to ~16-25 year old males.

I'm way closer to fifty than I care to think about, but okay... I do agree with your point overall. If you're really worried about resale, having paint done right is the best option. I will say that DIY prep is not really included in "doing it right". You might find some shops that would give you a break on stripping molding and trim, but I don't think it would be the huge discount you'd think. That stuff doesn't take a pro very long.

 

[studawg]

I'm sorry for the wait. Finally took those photos.

Makes sense about removing clearcoat through sanding. In this case it does flake off quite a bit on its own, but sanding is still probably the surest way to get it off.

View attachment 3479126View attachment 3479127View attachment 3479128

I have personally overseen the repainting of dozens of Land Cruisers mostly 60s and 80s.

Im 95% sure that the paint in those pictures is not original. Factory Toyota clear coat on LCs of this era just doesn't typically age that way. I would also doubt that the whole vehicle was repainted. So you've probably got a mish-mash of repainted and original panels.

If the vehicle in question is a 93+ FZJ80, has less than 200k miles and is relatively rust free, Id say it is definitely worth it to spend the money and pay a shop to paint the whole thing, in the original color, the right way.

Id definitely remove the fender flares myself and if it has a roof rack, Id personally remove that as well after you've researched the proper way to do it. You can either leave the rest to the pros, which like the previous poster said, can do that pretty quickly and easily or do it yourself. Things like the lower window trim pieces, front and rear bumpers, running boards, lights, grille, badges, side markers, etc... The thing to keep in mind here is that its an older vehicle and if these pieces are broken during removal, they are hard to repair and maybe impossible to replace. And this might be the first 80 the shop has ever seen.

And then, rather than sanding, I would have the vehicle media-blasted. Softer than sand-blasting so it won't destroy the weatherstripping. This was a 62 we did a while back...

Id say that route should cost in the neighborhood of $8-9k.

If its a 91-92, or has over 225k, or has a lost of rust underneath, then I think it becomes a harder decision and factors such as how long you plan to keep it, or how much you love it, or does it have sentimental value, or maybe just how much $$$ you have come into play.

I would avoid monstaliner at all costs. Id even recommend a budget paint job over that. Unless its just a trail truck, but then why bother doing anything anyway.

After all this is done, the only problem you will have is strangers offering to buy it from you every time you take it out!

 

[ozarkmud]

Great information on the Monstaliner. It does sound like for a liner job, it's the way to go. These are daily drivers (we try to have some redundancy, especially with where we live).

I have personally overseen the repainting of dozens of Land Cruisers mostly 60s and 80s.

Im 95% sure that the paint in those pictures is not original. Factory Toyota clear coat on LCs of this era just doesn't typically age that way. I would also doubt that the whole vehicle was repainted. So you've probably got a mish-mash of repainted and original panels.

If the vehicle in question is a 93+ FZJ80, has less than 200k miles and is relatively rust free, Id say it is definitely worth it to spend the money and pay a shop to paint the whole thing, in the original color, the right way.

That is interesting. There's a blue/grey '91 and a white '93. Do you think that both have been repainted?

The '91 has absolutely minimal rust. '93 has some, although not quite sure how extensive. It seems like nothing terrible, although just doesn't look nearly as clean as the '91.

'93 is triple locked with a fairly nice interior. Both have north of 225k miles, although less than 250k miles. I personally love the '91, my wife loves the '93.

I don't think a professional paint job would be good until we get some dedicated car port space. We also live a ways down a gravel road, which probably isn't good for the paint either.

The local body shop wasn't taking new work, and couldn't recommend anyone else, but it was sounding like it'd be $10k to do it. $8-9k sounds about right. Not quite sure if we want to spend that kind of money. At times it seems like it would've been better to buy a sorted 80 series rig and maintain that, rather than catch up on everything.

I guess I was hoping that it might be possible to sand down the clear coat and touch up with a matching single stage, but it seems like maybe that isn't realistic. I didn't think the blue/grey would be so shiny you'd notice, but I'm also not a very visual person, and I know almost nothing about paint.

 

[Marvelicious]

Great information on the Monstaliner. It does sound like for a liner job, it's the way to go. These are daily drivers (we try to have some redundancy, especially with where we live).



That is interesting. There's a blue/grey '91 and a white '93. Do you think that both have been repainted?

The '91 has absolutely minimal rust. '93 has some, although not quite sure how extensive. It seems like nothing terrible, although just doesn't look nearly as clean as the '91.

'93 is triple locked with a fairly nice interior. Both have north of 225k miles, although less than 250k miles. I personally love the '91, my wife loves the '93.

I don't think a professional paint job would be good until we get some dedicated car port space. We also live a ways down a gravel road, which probably isn't good for the paint either.

The local body shop wasn't taking new work, and couldn't recommend anyone else, but it was sounding like it'd be $10k to do it. $8-9k sounds about right. Not quite sure if we want to spend that kind of money. At times it seems like it would've been better to buy a sorted 80 series rig and maintain that, rather than catch up on everything.

I guess I was hoping that it might be possible to sand down the clear coat and touch up with a matching single stage, but it seems like maybe that isn't realistic. I didn't think the blue/grey would be so shiny you'd notice, but I'm also not a very visual person, and I know almost nothing about paint.

Ten grand on a complete paint job with some minor body work (fixing dings, etc) sounds pretty reasonable for the Pacific Northwest. You might get lucky and find someone who does good work out of a home shop, but otherwise labor is expensive around here.

There seems to be a big contingent on here that really want to push the "collector" thing. I'm old enough that I watched that happen with early Broncos back in the day, and they're absolutely right, but I personally want no part of it. Be honest with yourself about what you want and realize that the bed liner path is definitely a one-way trip. For my part, mine is a good "50/50" rig: it looks pretty good at 50 feet while going 50 miles an hour. I won't ever feel bad about it because I know that if I wanted a collector, I'd be money ahead starting with one in better shape.

 

[Broski]

From the few pictures that you posted Monstaliner is not going to hurt it's value.
Now if you are talking what it would be worth after a quality paint job verses Monstaliner then that's deterrent.

I know 2 guys both in there 50s that did the Monstaliner thing and are happy with it !

I'm 64 and did the roof of my 80 a few months a go & rattle caned the hood and finders myself. It's good from far but far from good

I say go for it, way cheaper, Hides a ton of sin, why less prep and durable

 

[Kernal]

"I would have the vehicle media-blasted"

@studawg :

Can you go over the process you've used to prep a vehicle for paint ie: type and grit size of media used, how far down do you take it??

After media blasting is it then sanded lightly before painting?