That's nothing to worry about. Burn it in.
Builds Moonshine - A Build Thread (4 Viewers)
- Thread starter GLTHFJ60
- Start date
This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate
links, including eBay, Amazon, Skimlinks, and others.
- Thread starter
- #2,262
Cool. That's exactly what I was thinking, just wanted verification.
Ya Id weld it. That gap wont provide much holding metal anyway. You'd only gain, what, 1/18" of extra purchase if it were flush?
Send it! Good luck!
Send it! Good luck!
- Thread starter
- #2,264
First fit of the shackle hangers with outboard plates. No go:
Second try is much better:
Moved out a decent amount:
Sitting on jackstands still, but with her new axle this time!
Decent tie rod to oil pan clearance:
Spring is nearly flat, so I *think* that the shackle angle is good.
A couple of questions I'd like some input on:
1. Do y'all think the shackle angle is good? I think it is based on the fact that the spring is nearly flat, but I'd like another couple opinions before burning in. One thought was that I can adjust the angle later if need be by putting longer shackles on (they are 4" on center now).
2. What is a reliable method to measure to ensure that the axle is square? I want to make sure this thing tracks dead nuts straight, so should I just measure out the spring hangers or is there a better way? I will be taking this truck to an alignment shop after the swap is done to make sure everything is good.
3. Ideas on a new front bumper design? There will have to be a new crossmember between the outboard brackets, but what should I do for the uppers?
Thanks all!!
Second try is much better:
Moved out a decent amount:
Sitting on jackstands still, but with her new axle this time!
Decent tie rod to oil pan clearance:
Spring is nearly flat, so I *think* that the shackle angle is good.
A couple of questions I'd like some input on:
1. Do y'all think the shackle angle is good? I think it is based on the fact that the spring is nearly flat, but I'd like another couple opinions before burning in. One thought was that I can adjust the angle later if need be by putting longer shackles on (they are 4" on center now).
2. What is a reliable method to measure to ensure that the axle is square? I want to make sure this thing tracks dead nuts straight, so should I just measure out the spring hangers or is there a better way? I will be taking this truck to an alignment shop after the swap is done to make sure everything is good.
3. Ideas on a new front bumper design? There will have to be a new crossmember between the outboard brackets, but what should I do for the uppers?
Thanks all!!
Cruiserdrew
On the way there
What springs are those? They look pretty long. Just eyeballing it but the axle looks pretty far forward. Can you move it all back a bit?
Regarding the shackle angle, I don't think it matters that much but I'd want them a little steeper than your last picture.
I'd also beef up those springs a bit. By the time you add a bumper and winch you're going to be riding the bump stops.
Why did you choose Frombe steering as opposed to cross over steering? That's going to make your final positioning harder and may endanger your oil pan on compression.
Nice work though. You've learned things you can learn no other way.
Axle square--Could you measure from the rear axle forward to the front and make sure they measure exactly the same? Or drop a plumb bob from some obvious fixed point on each side of the frame. It won't be perfect, but you'll be close enough to not notice.
Regarding the shackle angle, I don't think it matters that much but I'd want them a little steeper than your last picture.
I'd also beef up those springs a bit. By the time you add a bumper and winch you're going to be riding the bump stops.
Why did you choose Frombe steering as opposed to cross over steering? That's going to make your final positioning harder and may endanger your oil pan on compression.
Nice work though. You've learned things you can learn no other way.
Axle square--Could you measure from the rear axle forward to the front and make sure they measure exactly the same? Or drop a plumb bob from some obvious fixed point on each side of the frame. It won't be perfect, but you'll be close enough to not notice.
- Thread starter
- #2,266
The springs are FJ60 rear springs, so they are longer than the stock fronts. The axle centerline is only ~1" farther forward than the stock position, based on my measurements.
Steeper for the reason of adding weight (bumper, winch) or drivability in the current config? I'm thinking that adding an inch to the shackle length will help with the angle.
These are beefier springs than what was there before! I agree that they're flat, but they're as flat as the rear springs and have the same number of leaves. I'm going to leave the springs themselves as-is until I get some miles on her.
I chose FROMBE steering because that's what NWF offers, and I really like their arms. I am concerned about the oil pan clearance, but I think I can fix that with bumpstops. I'm not too concerned with whole-axle uptravel, as long as each wheel can come up 4" or so.
So that's the thing I'm thinking about. The shackle hangers, by my understanding, don't do that much to locate the axle. It's the spring hangers and springs that locate the axle under the truck. The spring hangers are within 1/32" measured from the grease zerk on the rear spring pin to the front spring hanger. In addition, the axle appears perfectly centered under the frame, with 18.75" between the WMS and the frame on each side (measured with plum bob). The concern is that when I measure the wheelbase, I've got a .625" difference between driver and passenger, but I suspect that the difference is due to my cement pad not being perfectly level, or that I am having a hard time verifying that the knuckles are pointed perfectly straight.
The question I'm trying to answer is can I ignore the outside wheelbase measurement if all of the spring hanger measurements check out?
- Thread starter
- #2,267
Better pics:
Cruiserdrew
On the way there
For the best handling you want the shortest shackle that allows the spring to fully elongate when compressed. If you aim for 45 degrees, it can get both longer and shorter depending on spring load. Measure a stock shackle for that spring-that's the ideal length. I have heard that Tahoe rear springs are very good in this application. You might investigate that. More load carrying ability, cheap, about the right length.
Beefy or not you broke the last set of springs on there due to the springs inverting, so flat is a compressed as you would ever want. That's going to leave you virtually no uptravel in the suspension-not what I would want. Maybe move those rear spring hangers back an inch, leave the fronts where they are and see how it works. Or, do an add a leaf and recheck your angle with more arch in the spring.
To me it looks like you will risk locking that spring forward with that little angle in it.
How did the caster come out?
Beefy or not you broke the last set of springs on there due to the springs inverting, so flat is a compressed as you would ever want. That's going to leave you virtually no uptravel in the suspension-not what I would want. Maybe move those rear spring hangers back an inch, leave the fronts where they are and see how it works. Or, do an add a leaf and recheck your angle with more arch in the spring.
To me it looks like you will risk locking that spring forward with that little angle in it.
How did the caster come out?
- Thread starter
- #2,269
With spring length, if the shackle is at that angle but the spring is fully elongated, isn't that an ideal shackle angle? Still trying to think through it.
I'm not sure that the last set of springs that broke were due to inversion. The second leaf split right near the u-bolt.
I can't measure caster yet because the pad isn't level. That's why I'm concerned about the wheelbase measurement.
Cruiserdrew
On the way there
Another idea would be to measure the stock pin to pin measurement. That's going to be basically right. I still think you'll want more arch in that spring. If you were closer I have a set of very good to excellent FJ62 springs with an added extra leaf from another pack I'd give you.
I've always thought you wanted the spring as flat as possible when sprung over?
Looks AWESOME Johnny! can't wait to see it with wheels on.
Looks AWESOME Johnny! can't wait to see it with wheels on.
Your shackle angle is nearly horizontal; not good. You need to move the rear spring mount back to get a more vertical shackle angle.
- Thread starter
- #2,273
After a tip from mtweller, I dropped a plum bob from a fixed position on both sides of the frame and measured to the axle housing to determine square. As it turns out, the axle is exactly square to the frame, measured to the housing tube right outside the inner C. Awesome.
Knowing that and that the axle is centered under the frame, I am reluctant to move the spring hangers at all. Besides, I wanted a little less front overhang for a better approach angle. Therefore, I moved the shackle hangers forward on the frame ~5/8". This is the result. This, to me, looks perfect, after considering the advice of everyone.
The black mark is where the hanger lined up with the frame for the second fit up (last set of pictures):
This is where the wheel will be in relation to the wheel well:
I'm tickled pink. I need to obtain a 2x4 tube to box in the front mounts and then this is going to be burned in for good.
Knowing that and that the axle is centered under the frame, I am reluctant to move the spring hangers at all. Besides, I wanted a little less front overhang for a better approach angle. Therefore, I moved the shackle hangers forward on the frame ~5/8". This is the result. This, to me, looks perfect, after considering the advice of everyone.
The black mark is where the hanger lined up with the frame for the second fit up (last set of pictures):
This is where the wheel will be in relation to the wheel well:
I'm tickled pink. I need to obtain a 2x4 tube to box in the front mounts and then this is going to be burned in for good.
- Joined
- Jun 21, 2011
- Threads
- 225
- Messages
- 20,977
- Location
- Redding, California
- Website
- trail-tailor.com
Looks pretty good to me Johnny, maybe even a tad more back towards the vertical side is where I'd lean.
J
J
The angle looks much better.
- Thread starter
- #2,276
You mean you'd prefer to see the shackles even more vertical than they are now?
Agreed. I'm much happier, and the brackets fit better there as well.
- Joined
- Jun 21, 2011
- Threads
- 225
- Messages
- 20,977
- Location
- Redding, California
- Website
- trail-tailor.com
maat
yeah nah maybe
this thing is a fxxxing weapon, love it!
- Thread starter
- #2,279
I'm going to keep it where it is for now. I think this is pretty ideal for the shackles I've got. I will put a winch up front in the future, but it'll have synthetic line, so it won't be all that heavy.
Thank you sir
I like the second angle better as well and agree that a tad more vertical would be fine but that might just be splitting hairs. With it laid over as much as it was the spring rate would have been very soft. Making the shackle more vertical will help stiffen it up which is good for the heavy diesel and front end control when cornering. During my second round of shackle set ups I went with shorter and more vertical set ups (from what I had) and the handling tightened up which was a good direction for a SOA with no sway bars. Of course too vertical is way too stiff so one could go too far.
