Lockers - why you want them and how/when to use them

[TexasJack]

I am absolutely positive I can take an unlocked Landcruiser to a trail I can climb fairly easily that the best driver simply cannot climb. Review the videos I attached at the beginning of this thread. It isn't brain surgery.

Everybody that wants to wheel doesn't have to have lockers but those that want to run the more aggressive trails alone better have them because not every location has an anchor for your winch.

 

[n00g7]

I am absolutely positive I can take an unlocked Landcruiser to a trail I can climb fairly easily that the best driver simply cannot climb. Review the videos I attached at the beginning of this thread. It isn't brain surgery.

Everybody that wants to wheel doesn't have to have lockers but those that want to run the more aggressive trails alone better have them because not every location has an anchor for your winch.

One of them is better than none. Sometimes one is the same as none. Both is best, but sometimes you're still stuck!

Tbh, it's important to have both for a truly capable rig, but the cost can be more than the truck, so many people don't.

 

[Tools R Us]

... me? I 'wheel to get places and I get there. ...

Exactly, on Saturday, the place we will be going, to assess a cabin in need of repair, is very scenic, great route. Likely wont even engage the CDL, probably will be stock rigs there, all good. But that is no indication of where we may go next, it likely will be locker land.

Do lockers make routes easier, absolutely. Can they reduce the impact on the environment, absolutely. Can lockers reduce that chance of rig breakage, absolutely. They only needed infrequently, briefly, often only for a few feet, but that can be absolutely critical. Can you wheel lots of places without lockers, absolutely. But, lockers greatly increase route selection, access, improving capability increases the places where you can go, absolutely.

My rig is not "sacred" more like scratched, dented, used for carting tools and supplies, to the places where I want and/or need to go. Lockers are another tool to that end, a critical tool, absolutely.

We call stub routes, in and outs. The above pictured route is point to point, so yes it has two points of access. From one end, the first place where lockers are needed is about 1/4mile in, the other end is right at the start. It has a lot of "texture" so favors short rigs, and/or big lifts/tires. You could attempt to drag your rig, but the under carriage would often be on the ground, there aren't many anchor points, would likely need two capable rigs to drag it. With enough route and rig destruction, could likely get it done. But why would you want to, picking another route, more appropriate to your rigs capability, would be much more enjoyable?

 

[ChaseTruck]

... I know I am high-jacking my own thread but I meant it to be a thread about how to avoid getting stuck in the middle of no where while you are alone. Expanding it to include how to get unstuck is a natural progression...

Coming back to the part of the discussion that still makes sense to me, I'd like to offer a few tidbits:

1. Disclaimers: the majority of my experience is in an ARB-locked K5 Blazer. You may say no wonder that thang needs lockers, what with 19th century carriage suspension design and all that. I offer that I've spotted 80s (perhaps more than my share...) through the very same obstacles, and more often than not, the 80 needed at least a locked rear in the same spots as that old K5. I've played a bit with our locked LX, but doubt that I'll be wheeling that one a lot in the future, if at all; same for our locked 80, mostly because I've started to look in a different direction altogether. In terms of terrain, I've been putzing around in dry desert conditions - the 37s on the K5 are a bit over a year old, and I don't think I've gotten them wet yet... But back to this 'avoid getting stuck' thing:

2. Using selectable lockers only after you've gotten stuck can be quite a losing proposition, particularly on climbs, where loss of momentum and loss of traction can result in unfavorable vehicle positions. I'm a strong proponent of 'lock first, ask questions later' - as in look at the obstacle, read the available lines, and when in doubt, I lock at least the rear. Particularly so if there's loose material on the surface, gravel, loose rocks, sand, and the like. Then drive, ready to lock the front when needed.

3. Front lockers are awesome but are best used sparingly - saves wear on axle components, and permits easier steering. I find that often I don't need that help from the front locker for more than 5-10 feet, depending on the obstacle, of course. But for that short distance, that locked front can make all the difference. A locked rear end has the tendency to 'square' itself to the obstacle (perhaps related to wheel base and rear leaf suspension; I haven't noticed it as much with the LX, whereas the FJ40 does it with a vengeance ), which may or may not be desired. The little bit of extra grip from the locked front can help there quite a bit. By the way, I'm not doing front digs (at least not deliberately) - my truck is not set up for that, and it's too heavy and too big for those type of trails anyways. Again, as mentioned before, I lock the front when in doubt - if I don't need the front help, an open front is one click away. My truck is set up so I can actuate the front independent of the rear, but the places where this might help (front locked, rear open - e.g. at a ledge with a turn where I don't want the rear to push the truck straight...) are few and far in between.

4. In terms of lockers vs. winch, I'll say that I've used the lockers way more that I can count or remember over the last dozen years; the winch (a Ramsey 9.5) came into play maybe a dozen times. On a few of those occasions, the lockers didn't help, since I'd gotten myself hung up front and rear, and the tires that still were on the ground had not enough contact pressure to provide traction. Would I pick a winch over lockers - no, since I get a lot more use out of the lockers. Would I think about not having a winch on the truck - no, not after having one on the truck for 10 years. I see them as different tools that serve distinct purposes, i.e. I don't see lockers as 'recovery' equipment. I don't think I've used the winch in pre-emptive mode, unless you count letting the FJ40 down WipeOut Hill on the cable.

5. I'd venture to say that two of the more important tools to avoid getting stuck are that thing between the ears, and seat time. Knowing what your truck can - and can't - do is quite important when looking at an obstacle. But general trail awareness, and recognizing when you're getting tired and you're not paying enough attention are at least as important as tech specs. I've read that most skiing accidents happen in the afternoon, perhaps due to fatigue and lack of concentration; I'll say that similar dynamics are in play when it comes to long trail rides.

 

[White Stripe]

I think it's good to learn to wheel without lockers first. Nothing wrong with wheelin open diff. I had a good time when I was open diff and I learned to focus on my tire placement. As my skill increased I bought lockers even.

 

[canman]

Interesting point made by @Tools R Us regarding the environment. I think everyone will begin to see more and more of this type of stuff.

 

[n00g7]

4. In terms of lockers vs. winch, I'll say that I've used the lockers way more that I can count or remember over the last dozen years; the winch (a Ramsey 9.5) came into play maybe a dozen times. On a few of those occasions, the lockers didn't help, since I'd gotten myself hung up front and rear, and the tires that still were on the ground had not enough contact pressure to provide traction. Would I pick a winch over lockers - no, since I get a lot more use out of the lockers. Would I think about not having a winch on the truck - no, not after having one on the truck for 10 years. I see them as different tools that serve distinct purposes, i.e. I don't see lockers as 'recovery' equipment. I don't think I've used the winch in pre-emptive mode, unless you count letting the FJ40 down WipeOut Hill on the cable.

At this point I know what I can go over, what I may be able to go over, and what I definitely can't go over. For the latter I just pull cable and let my skid plates do their job rather than repeatedly bash metal on rock and potentially end up in a precarious position.

I don't value one over the other really, but most of the places I've wheeled I can get home if I have a winch, not so much with just lockers. Desert is a different situation with lack of anchor points.

 

[duggy]

I wheeled a non-locked 80 for 3 years and thought I was billy bad ass until I got into a locked rear 100 which made a world of difference. I always knew how easier it was to get up obstacles with it being unlocked by watching others, but until I actually got in and drove my own rig up the obstacle was when I knew lockers were the way.

In Texas we have very similar terrain to @Tools R Us pictures, dirt hill climbs with rocks and huge boulders in the way.

I still at times keep the rear unlocked just to keep the excitement going, but when I am holding up the convoy, I lock the axles and walk up the trail.

 

[Broski]

He also didn't say you needed them.

And why would Mr. T build all these trucks without lockers if they really were needed?

What this comes down to is that some folks do feel lockers are needed to make their life complete. That's fine, but it's still not an argument for why any random LandCruiser owner needs lockers.

If you think you don't need locker your not wheeling hard trails or you just can't afford them, Mr.T made 80 for the masses the masses go to the mall the rest of us with lockers are out on the hard trails.

 

[Broski]

At this point I know what I can go over, what I may be able to go over, and what I definitely can't go over. For the latter I just pull cable and let my skid plates do their job rather than repeatedly bash metal on rock and potentially end up in a precarious position.

I don't value one over the other really, but most of the places I've wheeled I can get home if I have a winch, not so much with just lockers. Desert is a different situation with lack of anchor points.

I don't wan't to pull cable if i can just turn the magic dial.

 

[baldilocks]

@brosky hit the nail on the head. I used to tell my kids "now we're wheeling" every time
I had to get out and pile rocks to smooth out the trail or use my high lift jack for the tenth time that day because I could not afford to feed and house them and buy lockers too or even a winch for that matter. I would spend hours doing what I can now do in a locked rig in less than half the time with less vehicle effort and damage.
A rig without lockers is really only 3 wheel drive at best. And as far as when to use lockers: when I damn well please. I believe there is a placard sullying the interior landscape of an elocker equipesd 80 that has instructions for using the factory lockers for those who don't care to experiment. I read it once and iirc, getting stuck is the first step. And here I always thought that lockers were to keep us from getting stuck in the first place. I guess I haven't learned a damn thing in the last 30 years.
Just to remind myself how much I need lockers and how fortunate I am to have them under my 80, the next time I run Rubicon, I will run it unlocked or at least until forward motion ceases and I start relying on the the skinny pedal and it's brother momentum, no, maybe I will run unlocked until I prove that lockers exist for a very good reason by smashing a body panel or snapping a birfield or breaking a steering component all the while enduring the shock waves to my kidneys and that glare from my wife that says "are you an idiot today or what"?
Meh, I think I will use my ARB's instead because they actually SAVE me money and time.

 

[wardharris]

@brosky hit the nail on the head. I used to tell my kids "now we're wheeling" every time
I had to get out and pile rocks to smooth out the trail or use my high lift jack for the tenth time that day because I could not afford to feed and house them and buy lockers too or even a winch for that matter. I would spend hours doing what I can now do in a locked rig in less than half the time with less vehicle effort and damage.
A rig without lockers is really only 3 wheel drive at best. And as far as when to use lockers: when I damn well please. I believe there is a placard sullying the interior landscape of an elocker equipes 80 that has instructions for using the factory lockers for those who don't care to experiment. I read it once and iirc, getting stuck is the first step. And here I always thought that lockers were to keep us from getting stuck in the first place. I guess I haven't learned a damn thing in the last 30 years.
Just to remind myself how much I need locker and how fortunate I am to have them under my 80, the next time I run Rubicon, I will run it unlocked or at least until forward motion ceases and I start relying on the the skinny pedal and it's brother momentum, no, maybe I will run unlocked until I prove that lockers exist for a very good reason by smashing a body panel or snapping a birfield or breaking a steering component all the while enduring the shock waves to my kidneys and that glare from my wife that says "are you an idiot today or what"?
Meh, I think I will use my ARB's instead because they actually SAVE me money and time.

Air, electric, cable, all good and all designed to SAVE money and time.....brilliant!

At the end of he day, its not what you spend, but what you get.

 

[Douglas S]

A rear locker pretty much pays for itself the first time you find an empty parking lot with a thin layer of fresh snow. It will rotate around the front axle with the CDL and rear locker engaged.

 

[LandCruiserPhil]

I have seen obstacles that guys fully locked have problem and other walk it without lockers. Good line selection and a good driver is MUCH better than lockers.
Sometimes its the archer and not the arrow.

 

[baldilocks]

I have seen obstacles that guys fully locked have problem and other walk it without lockers. Good line selection and a good driver is MUCH better than lockers.
Sometimes its the archer and not the arrow.

Sometimes wheel base matters. And yes, anything can happen on any given day.

 

[Broski]

Your right if you can't drive or pick a good line then lockers are not going to Help

 

[KWalkerM]

A rear locker pretty much pays for itself the first time you find an empty parking lot with a thin layer of fresh snow. It will rotate around the front axle with the CDL and rear locker engaged.

I am so glad you mentioned this, just picked up a fully locked 80 to replace my 60. My biggest complaint is not being able to drift it since it is AWD.

As far as lockers, driving a (mostly) unlocked v8 60 made me a much better driver because it is a pain in the but to get unstuck in a heavy 60 series in the woods alone or with minitrucks as the only rescue. Now that I have lockers I rarely use them except to goof off or when I get sick of the lack of power in lowrange and need a little bit of help up the hills.

A experience and open/open/open trumps lock/lock/lock and no experience any day. Given that a large majority of LC owners rarely get out enough, I don't think most even need lockers in the first place; however they are probably more useful for the weekend warriors when the lack of experience gets them stuck.

I still stand by a hi-lift and knowing how to use it is the #1 most important tool before lockers and a winch. YMMV

 

[baldilocks]

I am so glad you mentioned this, just picked up a fully locked 80 to replace my 60. My biggest complaint is not being able to drift it since it is AWD.

As far as lockers, driving a (mostly) unlocked v8 60 made me a much better driver because it is a pain in the but to get unstuck in a heavy 60 series in the woods alone or with minitrucks as the only rescue. Now that I have lockers I rarely use them except to goof off or when I get sick of the lack of power in lowrange and need a little bit of help up the hills.

A experience and open/open/open trumps lock/lock/lock and no experience any day. Given that a large majority of LC owners rarely get out enough, I don't think most even need lockers in the first place; however they are probably more useful for the weekend warriors when the lack of experience gets them stuck.

I still stand by a hi-lift and knowing how to use it is the #1 most important tool before lockers and a winch. YMMV

I think you are on to something. All newbies shall be required to start out with a bone stock rig and only a hi-lift jack. We could could call it the starter kit and let it be a rite of passage to becoming a lazy trail slug with lockers and a winch.
Seriously though, the newbies that start off with all the good bits provide hours of entertainment.

 

[mudgudgeon]

Yeah, short and sweet from someone who is widely recognized as knowing his stuff.

That also sums up my point, maybe more clearly than I made it. If your style/taste/local trails runs toward "looking for trouble" lockers will get you there and most likely get you back again. That's all I'm saying.

True, lockers will make you more trail worthy -- but that's probably why most people bought a LandCruiser in the first place. Even without lockers, the 80 series is one of the most trail worthy vehicles ever produced, certainly the most trail worthy vehicle I've ever owned. Adding lockers will take you a bit farther, but it's more about going a little further than other LandCruisers. There is no basic insufficiency in an unlocked 80, so before you spend the big bucks adding them (since the vast majority of LandCruisers leave the factory without them even though it's the kind of truck intended to go into harm's way) consider how much use you'll actually get out of them according to your needs. And as Christo reminds, they are not a panacea; they can get you into the sort of trouble you'll still need a winch to get out of.

I mostly agree.
They will get you further than an unlocked truck, whether or not they get you into deeper trouble comes down to your own judgement. fitting lockers does not immediately equip the driver with good judgement, nor does fitting a winch. it is amazing what an unlocked cruiser can get over with good judgement and some skill, but a locked cruiser is a whole different animal again



90% of cruiser leave the factory without lockers, because 90% of cruisers are driven by soccer mums and retirees who mostly go to the mall. last time I went to the mall, I got in, and out again without needing lockers

 

[mudgudgeon]

I think you are on to something. All newbies shall be required to start out with a bone stock rig and only a hi-lift jack. We could could call it the starter kit and let it be a rite of passage to becoming a lazy trail slug with lockers and a winch.
Seriously though, the newbies that start off with all the good bits provide hours of entertainment.

"newbies" and "Hi-lift jack" spells 1st aid kit required!

I've never used the hi-lift jack I bought as a newb because it was a "must have". it sits in the corner of the garage collecting dust, and gets used in the shed ocassionaly when I'm changing springs. Fxxxing dangerous things IMO, more so on rough uneven loose surfaces etc