Lockers - why you want them and how/when to use them

[BadReligion]

I'd also wager that well over 90% of the trails in any state are passable without even thinking of lockers...except maybe Alaska.

In a state like NV with 10,000+ miles of dirt road, that means over 1000mi would be off limit, and often times that 10% is the more interesting/road less traveled.

I can probably run 90% of the Rubicon without engaging a single locker, and 99% with only one locker. Heavy throttle, lots of rock stacking/winching and bashing my vehicle could get me through the whole thing unlocked. Does that make lockers unnecessary?

Like others have said, with any unlocked vehicle, you are 2x2 at best. Lockers make the 80 (or any vehicle) a true and very capable 4x4. It doesn't matter if you are wheeling the Rubicon or climbing muddy hills in Ohio. A locked 80 will make it through a tough spot with less wheelspin, more control, and less of a chance for getting stuck or breaking something compared to a similar non locked 80. Other than the cost (if adding aftermarket), there are ZERO downsides to selectable lockers.

 

[TexasJack]

It's not lockers being a problem, it's people claiming you NEED them. That and the insinuations that your LandCruiser is a weak, little pedal truck if you do NOT have lockers.

Look, I understand, some people need lockers. But the way this spins out so predictably with few saying anything but implying how you MUST HAVE lockers or you're just some lightweight Subaru jockey...it starts sounding more and more like these threads come up because some folks are fundamentally insecure about having or needing lockers. That's not my bag, as I've noted repeatedly. If you need 'em, get 'em.

But let's look at the other side of the coin. There are thousands of LandCruisers in this relatively LandCruiser-scarce country that manage to serve their owners well COMPLETELY WITHOUT the supposed NEED for lockers. It's a ridiculous argument to insist the world's most capable 4x4 is somehow incomplete, incompetent, or unworthy of respect without a certain option, but people make it nonetheless, with a sneer that implies those who own them are all fools for doing so. I assume they're serious, if a bit misguided, and not simply trying to drive up the resale price of their 3X locked truck...but sometimes I wonder. Maybe they think we should rename this place ILUVLOCKERS.com? And the rest of us should just leave, because we couldn't possibly have anything of significance to point out? I suppose that's their attitude, but their problem isn't what's on their truck, it's more a bad attitude about those who politely disagree with their unquestioned assumptions.

I never felt my truck was a wimpy truck without lockers. I ran it that way for 14 years and was pretty happy with the way it was. I wheeled it very regularly. I just didn't know the difference it would make to have them. The truck is MUCH more capable with them. Hills that used to be a hassle to get up or mud bogs I used to get stuck in aren't even a challenge anymore. I kind of see it like taking the running boards off and adding sliders so I don't damage the rocker panels. It is simply one more thing on my side to allow me to get to places inaccessible beforehand and get back home undamaged. I have found many of those places I couldn't get to or places I would get stuck worth the cost of lockers. Mr. T. didn't include them in every Landcruiser because most people would never use them. Only a serious wheeler would find them useful. Most people don't want scratches on their truck. Most people who use the lockers don't care and/or buff them out annually.

 

[Pin_Head]

Lockers are like pistols.
Like the old saying goes: It is better to have them and not need them than to need them and not have them.

 

[Tools R Us]

I think it's just easier to avoid wheel spin in the first place, although if that's your bag, yeah, the auto makes it easier to limit it with the number of legs on the average human.

Are you really attempting to argue that manual is some how better for even mildly technical wheeling? Lets see, smoother, more controlled, less breakage, etc, go to the auto, manual can be push started that's it. After decades of manual wheeling, I moved to the auto, and almost immediately stepped up my game from the new found advantages. Have you ever even wheeled an auto?

I've been all over.

Good deal, then you have been on the trails that we are talking about?

So have the vast majority of Land Cruisers sold without lockers. Doesn't seem to have got us all stuck so far. Yep, harder and easier routes in all kinds of places. all kind of ways to deal with that, lockers are just one.

Considering the market that they were sold to, surprised any of them came with lockers, bonus! But it's a red herring argument, they are relatively easy to add, pretty much essential if the choice is to do even mildly technical wheeling.

... If you find yourself regularly getting stuck, you may just need lockers. Or pick better lines. Or air down. Or just decide that stub trail holds nothing interesting enough to waste the time on. The truck has proven itself. I've got nothing to prove for it or for myself. YMMV, obviously.

Sometimes other lines are available, others, not. Please don't modify the route to meet your want, or go off route to make a bypass, these give OHV a major black eye. Ether research, know what to expect or be ready to turn around if your not equipped/experienced. Any time your on the trail, should be aired down.

Stub trail, really, I thought you had "been all over"? There are lot of routes that are technical, many of them are long. Often when you have to work to get there, there is less traffic (or none), great views, better history, stuff less or not trashed, less or not "touched".... Wait, what an I thinking, the best stuff is on the big road, it's right over there, only idiots would go on that little road, likely to get your paint scratched,, that's better.

If your going wheeling to prove something, well that is your problem. Some of us actually enjoy using the stuff that we spent $$$$ and time on, for it's intended purpose.

 

[n00g7]

No single change you make to your vehicle will increase its wheeling capabilties like installing lockers. I have pretty much done all of the prudent things to an 80 you can do to make it more trail worthy and lockers are by far the biggest difference maker!

A winch. A winch will get you over anything lockers will, if there is something to hook up on infront of you. Depending on where you are, that could be 100% of the time or 0% (ignoring the guy with the baddest rig going first).

 

[Tools R Us]

... Basically, I'm not going to judge anyone about whether they or their vehicle is 'hard core" enough based on their choice of equipment.

Then why are you in this thread? It's about lockers and how to best use, get the most out of them. But, by your on admission, don't have any experience with them, appear to have zero understanding of their advantages. Yet endless argue that they are unnecessary. I agree that most owners don't "need" an 80 and for sure don't need lockers, other rigs would be far better, likely you included. The Op said that he is wheeling at a level where he feels lockers would be an advantage to HIM, some were attempting to be helpful.

... I agree. She was right to be impressed. Somehow, I've managed to accomplish the same thing in a variety of unlocked vehicles (OK, one had a rear LSD, but that ain't no locker...), though...I guess because I followed the Desert Rat's advice re the same in his columns in PV4 back in the mid-70s after first learning that wheel spin ... yada, yada,,

Yep, and I drove several places today and never spun a tire, didn't even engage low or the CDL! Maybe I failed to point out that the route is mildly technical? This is just one of the spots on it. I'm sure you ran it clean, in some old school unlocked rig, in the snow, on bald 31" tires, etc. May get away with that on the web, not going to work in the real world.

 

[Tools R Us]

A winch. A winch will get you over anything lockers will, if there is something to hook up on infront of you. Depending on where you are, that could be 100% of the time or 0% (ignoring the guy with the baddest rig going first).

A winch is fiddly and slow. If you're there with others, hookup the strap and have the properly equipped rig drag your under equipped rig through, much quicker. Or you could just buy a locker,, can be had for less than the winch, then you likely wouldn't be stuck in the first place?

 

[jcardona1]

You guys realize you're arguing with the same guy that thinks anything over a 31" tire is stupid and meant only for showing off, right?

 

[TexasJack]

You guys realize you're arguing with the same guy that thinks anything over a 31" tire is stupid and meant only for showing off, right?

So you mean he is incredibly hard-headed or just likes to jerk people's chains!

 

[Tools R Us]

... I can probably run 90% of the Rubicon without engaging a single locker, and 99% with only one locker. Heavy throttle, lots of rock stacking/winching and bashing my vehicle could get me through the whole thing unlocked. Does that make lockers unnecessary? ...

With a lot of people, it's not about the equipment, it's about the route. They have been some places, so no one needs to go anywhere more challenging than where they have been. They think users that like that stuff, are crazy, a lower life form, etc. Unfortunately we see this all of the time in our Forest work. Fortunately by taking agency personal out, some have become educated, understanding, agree that more technical wheeling is legitimate recreation. So are managing routes to meet that demand.

This is a spot on a little known route that we will be brushing, signing, etc. I should have put a rig in there for scale, but you can see Inkpot standing on the undercut.

 

[greentruck]

In a state like NV with 10,000+ miles of dirt road, that means over 1000mi would be off limit, and often times that 10% is the more interesting/road less traveled.

I can probably run 90% of the Rubicon without engaging a single locker, and 99% with only one locker. Heavy throttle, lots of rock stacking/winching and bashing my vehicle could get me through the whole thing unlocked. Does that make lockers unnecessary?

Like others have said, with any unlocked vehicle, you are 2x2 at best. Lockers make the 80 (or any vehicle) a true and very capable 4x4. It doesn't matter if you are wheeling the Rubicon or climbing muddy hills in Ohio. A locked 80 will make it through a tough spot with less wheelspin, more control, and less of a chance for getting stuck or breaking something compared to a similar non locked 80. Other than the cost (if adding aftermarket), there are ZERO downsides to selectable lockers.

Please, why do people feel that you're somehow restricted or that trails would be "off limits" if you don't have lockers? That just one of the many straw men being thrown up here and batted about as if it's relevant.

BTW, it's 33s you want to be one, not stock tires, which will leave you sitting lower than you want to be.

Just because there are zero downsides to lockers, does that make them strictly necessary as several have implied and at least one person has boldly stated is an absolute truth about this weak-kneed 80 I never realized would be such a dog without lockers? Never mind that the opposite side of that coin is that the rest of us are losers or wannabees for owning unlocked 80s. I get the point, but I don't see what's so threatening to inspire these cheap shots at the majority of LandCruiser owners.

Yeah, I have been around, grew up in the Southwest. Wish I could spend more time there, but Colorado and a bit of Utah is where my time and budget usually take me...not that I could learn anything there because I'm not smart enough to own a set of lockers, of course. My dad is a non-believer in 4x4 - just a waste of money -- and we never got stuck on our various adventures. Sure, we had to judge how to go about getting through obstacles, but who said anything about getting off the trail? Nope, not here. One more strawman, Kevin, you're baling the stuff this evening.

I can't say I've been everywhere (and I didn't), but I've been around enough to know that you shouldn't let yourself feel a trail is "off limits" because lockers are said to be needed. Mostly, they won't be, as the mention of the Rubicon indicated. Now, I wouldn't get in a traffic jam there and hold folks up, but a different, uncrowded trail like that? Very well might, in fact that's the kind of trail that works just fine for me when it's said to require lockers, but not really, they just expedite things and most people avoid it because they've bought into the Mysticism of the Magic Dial. How did any of us oldtimers survive childhood if our dad's didn't have lockers? Or like mine, who would have none of this all wheel drive nonsense?

If you're in a hurry or have a deadline, fine, but let's not kid ourselves it's really a NEED for your vehicle. No, if you're jonesing for lockers, that's about you, not your LandCruiser. About where you want to go (yep, lots of places need them here and there, but getting to them and most other places off road is plenty fine in my 2x2 80, thank you). And by definition, if it's not a stub trail, there are at least two ways in. Can't get through a certain place? Is there anyone handing out medals for doing so? Then no need for competition, or speed, just do whatever it takes. Or is your wheeling some sort of performance art where biggest is always best? me? I 'wheel to get places and I get there. Somehow I don't feel the truck is missing anything Why insist that simply owning a LandCruiser and being willing to use it is a shallow endeavor unless you build it to some ordained list of ingredients. Your choice, your truck.

But that all doesn't change the fact that most owners find the truck delivers to their expectations just fine without lockers, period. If that makes it an inferior, unworthy, nearly useless jalopy in the eyes of some, well, y'all will get over it someday. I plan on driving it and getting where I want to go until the gubmint pries the license from my hands. But if someone wants to buy me lockers, sure, there are no downsides to having them on the truck. Heck, I might even use them every once in awhile, mainly to avoid having to pull cable and get mud on my feet. That's nice, but not really a need.

I'm not sure how I survived growing up without lockers, but thousands of other did and managed just fine, too. Like a cell phone, some consider them a necessity of life. If you can't manage without them, then get them. Enjoy. Meanwhile, I am not going to buy into the lack of lockers as buzzkill meme.

 

[greentruck]

I never felt my truck was a wimpy truck without lockers. I ran it that way for 14 years and was pretty happy with the way it was. I wheeled it very regularly. I just didn't know the difference it would make to have them. The truck is MUCH more capable with them. Hills that used to be a hassle to get up or mud bogs I used to get stuck in aren't even a challenge anymore. I kind of see it like taking the running boards off and adding sliders so I don't damage the rocker panels. It is simply one more thing on my side to allow me to get to places inaccessible beforehand and get back home undamaged. I have found many of those places I couldn't get to or places I would get stuck worth the cost of lockers. Mr. T. didn't include them in every Landcruiser because most people would never use them. Only a serious wheeler would find them useful. Most people don't want scratches on their truck. Most people who use the lockers don't care and/or buff them out annually.

TexasJack,
I do appreciate your thoughtful comments and trying to at least understand my point of view. Enjoy those lockers!

Try not to join in the Greek chorus that insists you're not serious until you're locked. You've related right here in this thread what seemed a serious interest in offroading. Were you NOT serious before the lockers? I don't think so, or that you were any less serious than thousands of other owners of unlocked LandCruisers are.

And serious doesn't mean I wouldn't find them useful. They make things easier, which is what their most passionate advocates seem to describe, but rarely want to point out. Still, easier is useful, but somehow just doesn't sound as hairy-chested as most of what is said about lockers, but you've been quite honest about that, which is refreshing. Sure, humans are at good at making life easier. Not sure how much of a virtue that is, but it's definitely not a need like some insist. There are good reasons to get lockers, you described many. But arguing lack of serious intent just doesn't apply if you haven't felt the need for them.

 

[n00g7]

A winch is fiddly and slow. If you're there with others, hookup the strap and have the properly equipped rig drag your under equipped rig through, much quicker. Or you could just buy a locker,, can be had for less than the winch, then you likely wouldn't be stuck in the first place?

Depends on how tight the trails are for how easy it is to pull. My Jeep has lockers, on a more aggressive wheeling day I'll need them several times and the winch a couple. So, more or less, depending on where you wheel, the winch is the better buy.

You can still get stuck with lockers... I have tons of times. At the bottom of an icy hill in the snow, I decided that a winch was more important. Zero way to get up without one.

I have a winch on my 80. Will do lockers with regear, but it's not high on my priority list (still need to fix the hood, valence, and pass fender from my wreck, rebuild steering box with 100 series parts, etc. before even thinking about dropping in a compressor and ARBs) for the type of trails I plan on doing with it.

That's not to say I don't love lockers, I do, just haven't locked the 80 yet.

 

[TexasJack]

TexasJack,
I do appreciate your thoughtful comments and trying to at least understand my point of view. Enjoy those lockers!

Try not to join in the Greek chorus that insists you're not serious until you're locked. You've related right here in this thread what seemed a serious interest in offroading. Were you NOT serious before the lockers? I don't think so, or that you were any less serious than thousands of other owners of unlocked LandCruisers are.

And serious doesn't mean I wouldn't find them useful. They make things easier, which is what their most passionate advocates seem to describe, but rarely want to point out. Still, easier is useful, but somehow just doesn't sound as hairy-chested as most of what is said about lockers, but you've been quite honest about that, which is refreshing. Sure, humans are at good at making life easier. Not sure how much of a virtue that is, but it's definitely not a need like some insist. There are good reasons to get lockers, you described many. But arguing lack of serious intent just doesn't apply if you haven't felt the need for them.

Many people on Mud wouldn't consider me a serious wheeler because I go out of my way to avoid difficult routes. I only take them when there is no other convienent way to reach my destination. I use my Cruiser to get me there and get back home. I do my best not to tear my truck up along the way. Lockers are a means to an end. If they keep me out of a bad scrape, I'll use them. Otherwise I won't. I am a pretty good wheeler without lockers because I wheeled for so long without them. I often don't think of turning them on even when they might help. There have been plenty of times climbing very steep hills with loose rock where I might have rolled my truck if I didn't have them so better to have them than not.

 

[ZackR]

Quite the heated conversation! I haven't wheeled with lockers before however from what I've learned they provide a major advantage for certain situations and no disadvantage other than cost of purchase (factory or aftermarket). Do I have factory locker envy? yes. Do I wheel my cruiser hard enough to justify ARB Air or Harrop E lockers? Not yet. For people in my situation (forest roads, some mild wheeling with a stock setup, more focused on getting to the destination than taking the absolute hardest route) I like to think a rear Aussie locker will be enough. I haven't bought one yet but it's on the list (after all the PM is dialed in).

My style of off roading is to take it slow and easy with zero wheelspin or body damage if possible. If I could have found a factory locked cruiser at a decent price and in decent condition I would have made the purchase. Like many others I was late to the 80 game and had to forego factory lockers to find a cruiser in much nicer condition for the same price. As many have said before you can always add lockers depending on need.

Enjoy the abilities of your cruiser wither its locked or not, I know I will.

 

[justintpryor]

I have heard a lot of people say that at first you shouldn't have lockers, so you can learn how to wheel better without them. Because lockers will just get you into bigger and more dangerous situations. I think that's a load of bull. My 80 has been my first off-roader, and by that I mean something that does more than fire roads. My lockers allow me to go slow and not rely on momentum, making a unarguably safer ride. They put less stress on the truck, the trail and the people inside. If I was bashing about, relying on momentum my girl would never want to go wheeling. AND its nice to make it look effortless in front of others!!!

 

[Buckru]

Lockers, like the winch and shovel etc. etc., are tools. When properly used give advantage to not having them. Sure I could dig my rig out of a mud bog by hand or use a shovel. I could try to push my rig or use a winch. I could spin my tires throwing rooster tails of dirt all the way up a hill climb or engage the lockers to slowly and gracefully walk my rig up. They are tools designed to improve performance and they work like a charm. It's called the magic dial for a reason.

No one says you have to have them but anyone who says they aren't a vast improvement is a fool.

 

[izzyandsue]

Sharing my story, I have factory lockers, all new actuators too. My truck came with them, didn't know what they did as I am new to all this. And because I am new to this, I went to few 4WD driving schools to learn from people with lots of experience and formal training. The last course I did was a culmination of all previous courses, and a winch was required for the course.
All day in the muddy and rocky NC mountains in private land designed for the school, awesome trails. I have a winch, brand name redacted, 9 months old. The day of he class, during the exercise, winch won't work, it's dead. Instructors tell me to keep going (they did try to revive the winch first), let's see how far you can go. Long story short, when students got stuck by design, and needed the winch to self recover, again by design to practice the skill, the locked cruiser went through every obstacle without help. The last fail hill climb looked scary, and they had my truck at the back of the pack so others could winch me. Locked the rear, 2nd gear start, hill was no issue at all. I did get a Superwinch 115000 Tigershark winch after the class, want to be prepared....

When and how to use lockers is a great skill to learn. Then again smooth 2 foot driving and proper tire pressure can get you out of many situations, and is very difficult to do with 3 pedals. Done right with lots of practice gets you very little wheel spin.

 

[Tools R Us]

... I never realized would be such a dog without lockers? Never mind that the opposite side of that coin is that the rest of us are losers or wannabees for owning unlocked 80s. I get the point, but I don't see what's so threatening to inspire these cheap shots at the majority of LandCruiser owners.

Oh jeez, the victim play, I guess if it works for you, still not pretty. I don't recall calling Cruiser owners losers or wannabees, to those who I offended, sorry. All Cruisers are cool, but, the fact is, some are more capable than others. IMHO, it's good to have choices, some don't care to do the more technical routes so all good, don't need that stuff.

We wheel with diverse groups, so lots of Jeeps. At least they realize that a Rubicon is more capable than a Sahara, it is what it is and don't get all whiny about it.

... Please, why do people feel that you're somehow restricted or that trails would be "off limits" if you don't have lockers? That just one of the many straw men being thrown up here and batted about as if it's relevant.

Well because that is the way it is and will be more prevalent soonish. There was a big law handed down from congress, called Travel Management, directing all of the agencies to better manage their routes. Part of this is the liability risk. We lose hikers to exposure every year, luckily haven't lost many OHV users, yet, but the rescues are way up. Most often tourists, frequently in rentals, almost always in places that are way over their experience, prep and rig capability level.

It's a big deal, we have lost a couple of great OHV areas/routes due to stupid people law suits. The cost of rescues comes out of our OHV budget. So, the routes are being categorized by challenge and will be signed and listed on the map as such. Also, working on a list of prohibited routes for rental agencies to put in their contracts.

Does anyone believe this will totally solve the problem, nope the irresponsible will ignore it. But it will be more difficult to bring a case, and looking at applying our stupid driver law, that allows for all costs of a rescue to be charged to the driver. It will also allow for enforcement ticketing.

One of the signs, bigger, better are being worked on. Most users understand the concept that not all rigs are equal, not all are appropriate for all types of routes. Some don't get that simple concept, so the warnings have to be.

 

[Tools R Us]

Another big challenge to OHV is the clean and scenic rivers and streams act. In areas of critical watershed, there will likely be routes that are traction aid rigs only. Silting of streams is a big deal, agree that it's likely not the best, but beats having no routes in that area.