Lockers - why you want them and how/when to use them (1 Viewer)

[inkpot]

I wheeled my 80 without lockers from 1997 until 2010. I got damned good at getting up difficult trails unlocked. With that said, I got damned tired of digging myself out of mud holes. Try 3 hours of digging and lugging rocks and lockers and a winch start to make all the sense in the world!

You can play IN the trail or you can drive ON the trail. I usually have a mission/destination in mind. NOT finishing the distance in a fair amount of time is a huge FAIL for me.

 

[Tools R Us]

... I'd also wager that well over 90% of the trails in any state are passable without even thinking of lockers...except maybe Alaska. ...

Maybe, likely, but I haven't wheeled all of the states to know. Most of the named, popular, destination, type routes are well groomed, if that and web wheeling is what you are looking for, lockers are good sig line filler. Some of the more challenging routes can be done unlocked, with lots of tire spin, digging holes, taking the strap, higher likelihood of damage, etc.

Most of the wheeling I do is for the Forest Service, one of our tasks is to run/inspect all of the routes (open, closed, otherwise) in Tonto, so ~4500mi of routes. May not seem like much, but we have often gone out, beat our stuff all day and only added 5mi. Often have no idea what we are going to find, so don't bother showing up on those days without at least one locker. On those days we have found some of the best stuff.

... And as Christo reminds, they are not a panacea; they can get you into the sort of trouble you'll still need a winch to get out of.

Oh boy, again,, I'm doing it "wrong"! Often put my rig in harms way, often in remote locations where no one has been, maybe in decades, and don't have a winch, the shame of it all!

We recently took the head of engineering for Tonto out for her first time in a 4x4, went on a relatively challenging route. As part of the debrief, she mentioned; I was watching didn't see a rig spin a tire all day, do you know how huge that is! Started the conversation about ground pressure among recreation types, how horses would be the worst, and big tire SUVs could be the least damaging. Properly prepared, locked rigs, with an operator that knows how to run it, can go amazing places without spinning a tire.

Fully agree on the route damage thing. If you don't think that soil displacement, erosion, silting, dust, etc, is a huge factor in our future OHV privilege, you have another thing coming. IMHO, lockers and knowing how to use them, are part of a well prepared rig, a commitment to lands stewardship and our future OHV use privilege. We are working with Tread Lightly on a new education, signing campaign and this is a big part of it.

 

[greentruck]

SNIP

I have considered getting one of those connectors for my winch that digs into the dirt very deeply and will pull you out when you don't have anything else to connect to but I'd like to get some input from Mud members on how well they work before I spend the money. Of course, it won't help much in real rocky terrain and Texas has a lot of that!

Yeah, in non-rocky terrains, the PullPal is the ultimate portable anchor. But it's kinda largish and clumsy to have around. Keep in mind that burying your spare can serve a similar purpose, although a lot of work even if the ground is suitable for digging.

I have a slightly different solution and it's one that can usually work around rocks if there's a way to get them in with a sledge. I bought them 30 years ago and have yet to need them, though. It's a pair of heavy angle iron cut into a stake with holes pierced at the top to get a clevis or hook into. These are heavy (3/8") but take up virtually no room since there are just an L. You might get by with driving just one, but driving in the second one and daisy chaining them together is good practice.

And they were designed to work in sand, as they were sold as "sand spikes." The L is big enough (3") that when the inside is faced toward the vehicle, there's plenty of frontal area to give them a bite when driven into soils, sand, whatever.

 

[greentruck]

SNIP


Oh boy, again,, I'm doing it "wrong"! Often put my rig in harms way, often in remote locations where no one has been, maybe in decades, and don't have a winch, the shame of it all!

Nope, you just know your terrain and vehicle. Just as with lockers, winches are an option, it's up to you to decide if you need that or not.

Basically, I'm not going to judge anyone about whether they or their vehicle is 'hard core" enough based on their choice of equipment. If you choose Land Cruiser, you already mostly know what you're capable of, winches and lockers optional. Your vehicle is not inferior nor are your skills in question having already made that decision.

We recently took the head of engineering for Tonto out for her first time in a 4x4, went on a relatively challenging route. As part of the debrief, she mentioned; I was watching didn't see a rig spin a tire all day, do you know how huge that is! Started the conversation about ground pressure among recreation types, how horses would be the worst, and big tire SUVs could be the least damaging. Properly prepared, locked rigs, with an operator that knows how to run it, can go amazing places without spinning a tire.
SNIP

I agree. She was right to be impressed. Somehow, I've managed to accomplish the same thing in a variety of unlocked vehicles (OK, one had a rear LSD, but that ain't no locker...), though...I guess because I followed the Desert Rat's advice re the same in his columns in PV4 back in the mid-70s after first learning that wheel spin gets you nowhere in 2-wheel drive down on the farm. Funny, he never seemed to worry much about lockers, but that was in the days when manual trannies were far more common. Driving an auto tranny makes limiting wheel spin more difficult, but attention to one's driving habits can still be way, way cheaper than a pair of new ARBs, installed. For most people, that's all they'll ever need if they're already rocking Mr. T's finest.

Which is not at all to say lockers aren't way handy for sniffing out every little trail in the back country. That's the sort of service where they likely come in very handy, but also likely an outlier as the sort of daily service few are likely to encounter unless they intentionally seek it out.

 

[Tools R Us]

... Driving an auto tranny makes limiting wheel spin more difficult,

Strongly disagree, as a long term manual wheeler, it is much easier to be smooth with an auto. Two pedaling, is much easier than three pedaling, limiting wheel spin with the brake is pretty effective, to a point, almost like a poor mans locker.

... but attention to one's driving habits can still be way, way cheaper than a pair of new ARBs, installed. For most people, that's all they'll ever need if they're already rocking Mr. T's finest.

ARB lockers are nice, but a locker can be had for ~$300.

... Which is not at all to say lockers aren't way handy for sniffing out every little trail in the back country. That's the sort of service where they likely come in very handy, but also likely an outlier as the sort of daily service few are likely to encounter unless they intentionally seek it out.

Maybe where you are, for some of us, locker recommended type routes are common and some of them are close, popular. But no worries, there are also plenty of Subaru type routes if that is what you prefer!

 

[Tools R Us]

... I have heard from other long-time mudders that the Max Trax winds up being thrown out behind the vehicle half the time with no traction aid provided. Can you provide some detail on your experience with them?

My limited experience with that type of thing, they are only helpful in a very narrow range of stuck types. I my 1wd wheeling days (VW) we carried strips of carpet, somewhat helpful, and rolled up easy to stow. Most of the time, with a properly setup rig, enough air let out of the tires, etc, by the time enough digging is done to use this type of traction aids, it will drive out without them.

... By the way, I know I am high-jacking my own thread but I meant it to be a thread about how to avoid getting stuck in the middle of no where while you are alone. Expanding it to include how to get unstuck is a natural progression.

It is a good discussion for newbies and old hands alike. I learn something new everyday and there are some incredibly knowledgeable people on this forum.

As you mentioned earlier, the number one thing is seat time, reading has little helpfulness. Going with others, improving your craft is by far the most helpful. As far as stuck, the most helpful is, knowing the signs of it happening, and stopping before it's totally buried, it's way easy to make things much worse than they need to be. Sometimes, simply letting 2psi more out of the tires solves the problem.

 

[red mud fj]

I've had a couple occasions when ARB locker save the day.

Just had loaded the snowmobiles and turning around to head home when 80 slid off the road into hard 4' snow bank with only the drivers side rear tire showing. Unable to open the passenger side doors due to the depth of snow I new it was going to be a long cold night of shoveling to get the tire chains on. I was able to get the rear drivers side chain on and thought ill give it a try despite the ice under the hard pack snow, with ARB locked the 80 chewed its way onto the road with only one chain on.

You never know when those extras like lockers or a Pull Pal is all that is needed to save you from hours shoveling.

 

[TexasJack]

Yeah, in non-rocky terrains, the PullPal is the ultimate portable anchor. But it's kinda largish and clumsy to have around. Keep in mind that burying your spare can serve a similar purpose, although a lot of work even if the ground is suitable for digging.

I have a slightly different solution and it's one that can usually work around rocks if there's a way to get them in with a sledge. I bought them 30 years ago and have yet to need them, though. It's a pair of heavy angle iron cut into a stake with holes pierced at the top to get a clevis or hook into. These are heavy (3/8") but take up virtually no room since there are just an L. You might get by with driving just one, but driving in the second one and daisy chaining them together is good practice.

And they were designed to work in sand, as they were sold as "sand spikes." The L is big enough (3") that when the inside is faced toward the vehicle, there's plenty of frontal area to give them a bite when driven into soils, sand, whatever.

I'm interested. Do you have photos?

 

[TexasJack]

My limited experience with that type of thing, they are only helpful in a very narrow range of stuck types. I my 1wd wheeling days (VW) we carried strips of carpet, somewhat helpful, and rolled up easy to stow. Most of the time, with a properly setup rig, enough air let out of the tires, etc, by the time enough digging is done to use this type of traction aids, it will drive out without them.

As you mentioned earlier, the number one thing is seat time, reading has little helpfulness. Going with others, improving your craft is by far the most helpful. As far as stuck, the most helpful is, knowing the signs of it happening, and stopping before it's totally buried, it's way easy to make things much worse than they need to be. Sometimes, simply letting 2psi more out of the tires solves the problem.

My first "wheeler" was an Army truck we called a quarter ton....very capable. My father was a deer guide on Ft.Hood and I helped him put the hunters in their stands...this was around 1970 to 74. If I got stuck without him in the truck I would put big sticks under the tires. It worked great until I punched holes in two tires and we had to walk 10 miles back to the Rod and Gun club. No one was amused by that one!

I agree with your seat time comment. Nothing teaches like hard knocks!

 

[canman]

Love these types of threads. Lucky for me, my LX had lockers unbeknownst to me when I purchased it. It is one of major reasons I decided to use it for off-roading and not just a family hauler. I'm one for lockers, and believe they are almost a necessity in the type of terrain we wheel in, but last fall I was amazed at how an old beat up diesel 60 series with swappers made us 80 series pussy drivers look like rank amatures (all with lockers). Tires are a very important ingredient in the capability of any vehicle, and remember it is only the small patch of rubber between you and the ground that can make all the difference in the world.

 

[greentruck]

Strongly disagree, as a long term manual wheeler, it is much easier to be smooth with an auto. Two pedaling, is much easier than three pedaling, limiting wheel spin with the brake is pretty effective, to a point, almost like a poor mans locker.

I think it's just easier to avoid wheel spin in the first place, although if that's your bag, yeah, the auto makes it easier to limit it with the number of legs on the average human.

Maybe where you are, for some of us, locker recommended type routes are common and some of them are close, popular. But no worries, there are also plenty of Subaru type routes if that is what you prefer!

I've been all over. So have the vast majority of Land Cruisers sold without lockers. Doesn't seem to have got us all stuck so far. Yep, harder and easier routes in all kinds of places. all kind of ways to deal with that, lockers are just one.

As for "Subaru type routes" it was the limits of my 76 Subaru that led me to buy my first LandCruiser. Haven't been too worried about such designations since, although you do see plenty of unlocked Subarus in places I never expected in Colorado. Maybe the whole 80 thing itself is just overkill? Probably not, I've dug out a Subaru plenty of times and I'm too old to repeat that any more. I've even dug out other LandCruisers, but not the 80, and am definitely too old for that.

If you find yourself regularly getting stuck, you may just need lockers. Or pick better lines. Or air down. Or just decide that stub trail holds nothing interesting enough to waste the time on. The truck has proven itself. I've got nothing to prove for it or for myself. YMMV, obviously.

 

[ChaseTruck]

...

It is a good discussion for newbies and old hands alike. I learn something new everyday and there are some incredibly knowledgeable people on this forum.

I would disagree.

By now I regard it as rather funny how some folks on this board would argue ad absurdum that lockers are not needed in an 80. Last time I got involved, it was insinuated that people with lockers are those that willfully destroy pristine mountain meadows in the Rockies, and similar nonsense - by somebody who admittedly had never driven an '80 (and if I remember right, any other 4wd truck...) with lockers on a trail.

By the way, Mr. Slee did not say that you don't need lockers...

Lockers don't make the truck 'invincible' - they make it utterly more capable. There are plenty of trails out there where you better bring a locked truck if you want to have a chance of making it. If one doesn't want to go there, well, alrighty, then...

 

[greentruck]

I'm interested. Do you have photos?

I'll keep that request in mind. Right now they're buried in the truck, given they're a last ditch, got 'em if you really need them sort of thing. I could make a sketch and scan it though. Gimme a few so the burger doesn't get cold...

 

[greentruck]

I would disagree.

By now I regard it as rather funny how some folks on this board would argue ad absurdum that lockers are not needed in an 80. SNIP

By the way, Mr. Slee did not say that you don't need lockers...
SNIP

He also didn't say you needed them.

And why would Mr. T build all these trucks without lockers if they really were needed?

What this comes down to is that some folks do feel lockers are needed to make their life complete. That's fine, but it's still not an argument for why any random LandCruiser owner needs lockers.

 

[canman]

He also didn't say you needed them.

And why would Mr. T build all these trucks without lockers if they really were needed?

What this comes down to is that some folks do feel lockers are needed to make their life complete. That's fine, but it's still not an argument for why any random LandCruiser owner needs lockers.

IIRC, you always question the need for lockers when these threads pop up. Don't get me wrong, but there is no right or wrong as you mention. It comes down to a question of need, whether it be real or perceived (want). The reality is that they offered lockers for a reason, and not as some slick sales gadgetry for a brouchure.

 

[greentruck]

I'm interested. Do you have photos?

I did only minimal dimensions on the sketch. Length is about 30" with the full section angle at the top being 8" to 10" long. I was rather skeptical of the idea of them holding in sand, but was told to drive them in below the surface and bury it so the full part of the upper is buried. Also, always use them double. Obviously, not something you want flung at you if things get loose, which is probably why not on the market long as I recall, given the way lawyers have proliferated...but I can imagine someone wanting to hurry things up by just setting one and running into problems.

Remember these are from the era of 8k winches. So bigger may be better. And I'm using my memory, but pretty close. I'm sure it was heavier than 1/4", but may have been 5/16" instead of 3/8". These were bought in the late 70s from some outfit in SoCal. It could've been Cepek, but Con-Ferr or some other of the usual suspects from that era may have been the source. They were nicely done, painted black.

I'd dig them out, but they're in the middle locker of the sleeper/drawers buried under other heavy s**t and my back is trying to survive painting the wife's rental house right now. Will try to remember to get pics when I happen to be in there, but mostly it's about NOT opening that one. Hey, I'm a weak little man too stupid to buy the locked LandCruiser I need, what can I say?

 

[ChaseTruck]

He also didn't say you needed them.

And why would Mr. T build all these trucks without lockers if they really were needed?

What this comes down to is that some folks do feel lockers are needed to make their life complete. That's fine, but it's still not an argument for why any random LandCruiser owner needs lockers.

Nice try.

The bit about some needing lockers to make their life complete really made me chuckle.
Maybe you ought to try and expand your horizon a bit.

Hit that locker button - we know you're hand's itching to try. Don't shortchange yourself

 

[greentruck]

IIRC, you always question the need for lockers when these threads pop up. Don't get me wrong, but there is no right or wrong as you mention. It comes down to a question of need, whether it be real or perceived (want). The reality is that they offered lockers for a reason, and not as some slick sales gadgetry for a brouchure.

It's not lockers being a problem, it's people claiming you NEED them. That and the insinuations that your LandCruiser is a weak, little pedal truck if you do NOT have lockers.

Look, I understand, some people need lockers. But the way this spins out so predictably with few saying anything but implying how you MUST HAVE lockers or you're just some lightweight Subaru jockey...it starts sounding more and more like these threads come up because some folks are fundamentally insecure about having or needing lockers. That's not my bag, as I've noted repeatedly. If you need 'em, get 'em.

But let's look at the other side of the coin. There are thousands of LandCruisers in this relatively LandCruiser-scarce country that manage to serve their owners well COMPLETELY WITHOUT the supposed NEED for lockers. It's a ridiculous argument to insist the world's most capable 4x4 is somehow incomplete, incompetent, or unworthy of respect without a certain option, but people make it nonetheless, with a sneer that implies those who own them are all fools for doing so. I assume they're serious, if a bit misguided, and not simply trying to drive up the resale price of their 3X locked truck...but sometimes I wonder. Maybe they think we should rename this place ILUVLOCKERS.com? And the rest of us should just leave, because we couldn't possibly have anything of significance to point out? I suppose that's their attitude, but their problem isn't what's on their truck, it's more a bad attitude about those who politely disagree with their unquestioned assumptions.

 

[red mud fj]

My life is complete!
I my be Shallow but not stuck in a mud hole.

 

[TexasJack]

I did only minimal dimensions on the sketch. Length is about 30" with the full section angle at the top being 8" to 10" long. I was rather skeptical of the idea of them holding in sand, but was told to drive them in below the surface and bury it so the full part of the upper is buried. Also, always use them double. Obviously, not something you want flung at you if things get loose, which is probably why not on the market long as I recall, given the way lawyers have proliferated...but I can imagine someone wanting to hurry things up by just setting one and running into problems.

View attachment 1297624

Remember these are from the era of 8k winches. So bigger may be better. And I'm using my memory, but pretty close. I'm sure it was heavier than 1/4", but may have been 5/16" instead of 3/8". These were bought in the late 70s from some outfit in SoCal. It could've been Cepek, but Con-Ferr or some other of the usual suspects from that era may have been the source. They were nicely done, painted black.

I'd dig them out, but they're in the middle locker of the sleeper/drawers buried under other heavy s**t and my back is trying to survive painting the wife's rental house right now. Will try to remember to get pics when I happen to be in there, but mostly it's about NOT opening that one. Hey, I'm a weak little man too stupid to buy the locked LandCruiser I need, what can I say?

Much appreciated. I have over 500 lbs of tools in my truck so I understand the reluctance to dig it all out. This drawing will do fine. I have a friend who is a welder that can make this and ensure it is strong enough. This would make an interesting projectile. I have a mental picture of it sticking in my radiator in the middle of nowhere but if I am stuck and cannot get out any other way, I don't really see the difference. I stand way out of the way when I run my winch so I am mostly concerned about the truck!