Learn from me - Bad build experience Ed Martin

[bloc]

How is this help

Are you saying you would have Eric do future work knowing that he would send it to 4wp??

No doubt that he's a nice guy and loves cruisers, but I don't see to point of having a nice middle man when 4wp is ultimately doing the job... regardless of having a DSC warranty on it.

It seems like there are enough specialized toyota/cruiser shops around the US to be able to avoid 4wp (and maybe even dealers) completely.

I wonder how many recirc doors 4wp has broken..

Seriously though.. I would start a conversation with Eric about my expectations, and what is appropriate to have a toyota master tech do vs an aftermarket shop. If I was happy with that conversation I’d be glad to work with him, and the fact that he is sorting out the issues that have come up reinforces that opinion.

Oh, and there is no way anyone would be touching my diffs other than myself or Zuk. Period.

 

[TeCKis300]

Having Toyota technicians doing all the work is not a magic elixir. I've seen plenty of incompetence coming from within dealership shops. On factory service procedures that they should be experts in. They deal with typical factory services, over and over, that they may not have the right resources or experience for things outside of their wheelhouse. When it comes to aftermarket stuffs, they aren't necessarily any more qualified and may not have the knowledge, tools, or competence. That's where 3rd party specialty shops may come in, which equally has a spectrum of qualified (and unqualified} technicians. Hopefully for a job commissioned by Eric, he would set that expectation, that the sub would then put their A-team on task.

At any rate, there's some good learning here for both parties. It's feedback, to every participant and stakeholder, and an opportunity to adjust to come back better and stronger. You bet the tech that did the job got an earful. 4WP will exercise more due diligence. And I hope LRA fixes that 12.5 gallon tank as I thought they had?? And whomever was the slider manufacturer.

 

[Artie]

My inner old man coming out here - Taking a brand new truck and putting ‘flair’ on it with mostly unskilled labor results in these messes.

Drive the damn thing, and if you just have to have push bars and sliders, and lights, and knick knacks, and just can’t get to work without a 3 inch lift and race shocks.. then by all means. But be prepared for a 25 year old peaceful protestor who drives a WRX to wrench on your truck. Not me.

Everyone’s buying needs are different. We started out with the ‘buy it and drive it’ mind set but two reasons we are buying is because 1. we want to add more range because we tow and 2 we need a more capable 4x4 to tow our overland trailer... our current vehicle isn’t up for the trails we want to go on. So add the LRA tank and now we need to relocate the spare which means we now we need a rear bumper to mount it on. Well, we do have a long term plan of a winch and lift and etc... if we get the guy who’s making our rear bumper to make a front bumper we’ll save on freight shipping... by the way, tell me about your sliders... oh, I like those skids, too. Now we are really taking the plunge and we literally asked ourselves, ‘screw it, can we get this done turn key?’. So a few more rabbit holes later I find this forum and I’m messaging Eric and before long we’re building the whole thing. Do we hate money, that’s questionable, we have one or two expensive hobbies so I think there’s some evidence to that but we pay ourselves first so we aren’t totally fastidiously challenged. I built a vehicle once already, I was younger and had the time but I sold it to make room for this soon to be our Land Cruiser and our spare time is worth more to us so that’s why we are going the bought, not built route. If I feel like there’s something I want Eric to do and the shop he has to do it isn’t up to a particular standard (25 year old peaceful protestor type) I’ll just have ACC do that for me here in Atlanta, but as mentioned several times already, Eric has a lot at stake in this and we expect excellence at this price point and he’s aware of that. We went with a brand new one because we wanted that, it’s not a daily driver and the allure of the longevity this vehicle is known for really plays to our desire to run it for a very long time.

 

[Madtiger]

I keep on reading that this is a lesson for both parties. Why is this all a sudden a lesson for OP??

What did he do wrong except open his wallet for a product that was subpar when delivered? Eric apparently has fixed it or in the process of fixing it. Good...Eric Sargent is a good guy no doubt.

OP is just informing that the install was done by third party that does not have the greatest of reputation...and clearly showed it in this case.

Some say that how much OP spent had no bearing on his expectation. It certainly should! When you pay this much, then you expect the best workmanship, not an oops by clearly an incompetent “installer” that caused frame rail to collapsed! That is just pure utter madness!

Somehow through all this some of you blame the OP as if he is (equally) at fault? As if he over-reacted?

If some pimple popping kid collapsed your frame rail on your new cruiser, then you guys able to keep your cool?? I don’t think chains can keep me from bitch-slapping the hell out of that guy!!

But yeah let’s keep blaming the OP...

 

[Tripledave]

Caveat Emptor.....best of luck to OP, seems like you’ll get right eventually.

 

[Moby]

On my cars when I mod them I do 95% of the work. Same deal with all my bikes - I build, maintain and fix them. Not just bolt ons but fab, welding, engine mods, tuning, etc. I like the work, I like learning (I'm always learning or being humbled), and I'd rather be able to fix the issues myself (and there are definitely issues). I've just learned that most people's standards are not mine.

When I do need someone else to do the work, and there are definitely things that don't make sense for me to take on even if I want to, I select the shop based on specialty or proven ability with said job. I do not let just any shop set up my gears. Or build a custom linked suspension. Or machine a short block. Or build bike wheels (I'm working on wheel building now so I can stop subletting this). Etc. Be specific about the needed job and find the right place for that specific work. Even then, I know I may have to go back because mods are not simple. You have to be prepared for teething.

My perspective here is that a general shop subletting to another general shop seems like a recipe for disaster (4WP is a general shop). It should work like I describe above. A general shop or contractor should sublet specific jobs to shops that specialize in said job. That is actually a good thing - do what you're good at, find trusted partners for what you're not. If that isn't the model, I'd be concerned.

All that said, I think both parties have handled this well. I mean, it is the internet. If this was Pirate4x4 this thread would have been off the rails by post #2

 

[mbach]

The filler hose was replaced yesterday to address the fuel smell.
Hose was the wrong diameter and appeared to be a coolant hose.
Still waiting to see if that addresses the fuel smell issue.

 

[mbach]

There is still a strong fuel smell. It's worse when both tanks are full.
Wondering if this may be the cause.

 

[radman]

There is still a strong fuel smell. It's worse when both tanks are full.
Wondering if this may be the cause.

 

[hickuptruck]

This is going far far better than a lot of Jeep or fast sports cars build bad experience threads I've seen on other forums. Everyone is so cordial.

 

[Markuson]

There is still a strong fuel smell. It's worse when both tanks are full.
Wondering if this may be the cause.
View attachment 2427251

Your center-most ring appears to be bare metal. Look at mine. Mine has a rubber edge-cap on it. So my gas cap sits against the rubber edge...not bare metal (excuse the dirt)...

 

[Artie]

This is going far far better than a lot of Jeep or fast sports cars build bad experience threads I've seen on other forums. Everyone is so cordial.

So true, I really appreciate the community here. Glad I found the site before buying.

 

[Crush 4]

I just saw this thread and I was reading it I was thinking about my experiences with @Eric sergeant and Martin. I have bought a few vehicles from him and just ordered another. My experience with him has always been solid and He is always willing to go above and beyond for customer satisfaction.

When I first heard about the HE coming out I contacted my local dealer to order one. I basically got the run around and ended up finding Ed Martin by googling, pretty much how I learn everything now, it used to be encyclopedias, I digress, but I’m old. Anyway I lobbed an email into EM on a Friday and got a response from Eric on a Saturday. From that point on Eric and I exchanged dozens and dozens of emails and calls as we built my dream cruiser. Admittedly, I got rapped up in the build and kept adding or changing and even going outside of what Eric might have done in the past. Each time we had good discussions and it helped to keep my OCD somewhat in check.
During the build we had a slight issue and this is where I really saw how solid Eric’s character is. I’m a patient reasonable man as we don’t live in a perfect world, and Eric was always forthright which left me maintaining by calmness . BTW I even visited the aftermarket shop doing the work.
In the end I was completely satisfied and This is why Eric and EM are getting another purchase from me.
FWIW to the OP, I’m sorry this had to happened to you, but if I were a betting man Eric will make it right.
Eric, I think this is a great opportunity, if not currently happening, to put in writing an inspection process with quality metrics to ensure workmanship expectations especially when things are outsourced. Slowing down and thoroughly inspected will be key to your success in the future and certainly mitigate some of the mishaps that happen.

 

[molanginaeda]

I read this thread. I give prop to OP posting his frustration and also Eric’s post. As a bystander, I can either stand on either side and understand the situation. I think some resolution will reveal soon. Maybe a new gas cap will resolved the problem (joking aside, but maybe resolution).

Just an observation, the 4WP Store in Indianapolis probably the only shop to trust for any LC200 mod. This shop has the opportunity to work on LC200 more than 80+% Toyota dealer in US (just a guess). It’s been a heck hard to find a good dealership with master mechanic that has deep knowledge on LC200. Samething to find a rep shop to mod.

My take on any aftermarket parts installation on a brand new LC200 is once you mod it, the warranty is flush down the drain. That the price to pay for modding any cars, not just LC. If the installation has problem, just be patience and work it out with the shop for resolution.

 

[mbach]

Does anyone know of a good shipper in the Seattle area? Since I need to figure out how to get my vehicle shipped across the water for repairs on my own now I could use some help.

 

[mbach]

Does anyone know of a good shipper in the Seattle area? Since I need to figure out how to get my vehicle shipped across the water for repairs on my own now I could use some help.

To be clear I've made the trip myself at my own cost too but I don't have time to keep crossing the water for repairs due to work obligations.

 

[Madtiger]

Does anyone know of a good shipper in the Seattle area? Since I need to figure out how to get my vehicle shipped across the water for repairs on my own now I could use some help.

What happened?? Your issues cannot be fixed by Eric?

 

[mbach]

No, Eric's shop hasn't been doing the re-work and instead of taking the whole thing back a local shop has been trying to fix everything. Unfortunately, this has required multiple trips to the shop as new issues are discovered and re-work is done. To make things still more difficult most access to shops requires taking the ferry. Last quote I got for a tow to the shop was about $2K.

 

[grinchy]

So a tow from Bainbridge to Seattle somewhere is $2k? I got a transport from Texas to Seattle for way less than that.

 

[grinchy]

Other data. Seattle to Portland was $450. Seattle to Redding ca was $700. I think the lowest you’d ever see for a short hop would be $300 or so.