Media LC 250 & GX550 Picture Thread (12 Viewers)

[Jetboy]

As long as you don't need to get into more challenging terrain, soft stuff, or go fast on rough stuff, traction control or lockers can make up for limited suspension travel pretty well. For most people that's usually enough. Even Honda CUVs are really good on moderate stuff.

Probably pretty comparable to the Defender capability wise.

 

[M1911]

As the proud owner of a new Defender, I just wanna say their traction control system is baller and is designed to not need as much flex.

with that said, I wish it flexed a little more, but I get it now after owning one. it’s an awesome vehicle.

While I think a well tuned traction control system (or even lockers) is excellent, it doesn’t replace flex. If you are on a side slope, it is a distinct advantage to have all four tires on the ground, to reduce the chance of you slipping sideways downslope.

 

[Phillyd2]

Nothing replaces wheels touching dirt (flex) off road but the Defender seems perfectly suited for its assigned use on leafy suburban roads, especially when sometimes you need to park on the grass.

 

[mcgaskins]

As the proud owner of a new Defender, I just wanna say their traction control system is baller and is designed to not need as much flex.

with that said, I wish it flexed a little more, but I get it now after owning one. it’s an awesome vehicle.

Without going too far down a rabbit hole, I have to say I am extremely impressed with the traction control / Terrain Response system in the Defender. For a few weeks a year, I help as an instructor/guide for Land Rover events and spent over a month recently in the 90, 110, and 130 on and off road at the Trek, Trophy, and Destination events. I was amazed with the limited articulation how capable the vehicle is - even on stock, pavement focused Goodyear tires.

At Destination Defender, the challenging course was a complete mud fest from 3 days of non stop rain, but the Terrain Response 2 (we also had the auto rear locking diff on the Trophy vehicles) made it possible, if not easy, for people with little experience to go through the course. What surprised me the most about the system was how seamless and quickly it responded with no noise - a welcome change from the chatter of the Toyota systems I'm used to. Lifting a wheel shows how well balanced the vehicle is, and the 4 wheel independent air suspension reminded me of the Rivian in some ways. The Rivian has more adjustability and clearance, but it also weighs ~1,500 pounds more which you can feel going down steep slippery stuff or when you lift a tire high off the ground.

As you can see here, the ground was extremely muddy and soft, but even with stock street biased tires and a wheel off the ground, it just finds traction and moves right through!

 

[Specialeyes]

Probably pretty comparable to the Defender capability wise.
View attachment 3522007

Lol no way

 

[TWILLY]

As long as you don't need to get into more challenging terrain, soft stuff, or go fast on rough stuff, traction control or lockers can make up for limited suspension travel pretty well. For most people that's usually enough. Even Honda CUVs are really good on moderate stuff.

Probably pretty comparable to the Defender capability wise.
View attachment 3522007

I recently rode in a new Defender on neglected Forest Service roads; water holes, berms, and embedded rocks requiring ground clearance. At maximum ride height, I found the Defender's head toss to be very fatiguing. For me, that's the universal problem with low flex, high traction systems; while they may not get stuck, they make long days on poorly maintained dirt pretty exhausting.

 

[Phillyd2]

I recently rode in a new Defender on neglected Forest Service roads; water holes, berms, and embedded rocks requiring ground clearance. At maximum ride height, I found the Defender's head toss to be very fatiguing. For me, that's the universal problem with low flex, high traction systems; while they may not get stuck, they make long days on poorly maintained dirt pretty exhausting.

I drove one on a manufactured off road test course and there’s no way around the fact that it’s a beautiful ride. The computer did everything and it handled whatever was thrown at it in a oddly detached manner but the non-flex wheel drops were a bit jarring and agree about your head toss comment. My thought afterwards was that it felt like driving a Cadillac, which is exactly not the feel I was hoping for. That said, I do understand it’s appeal to a certain segment drivers.

 

[joseywales]

Lol no way

Actually looks pretty similar to me too

 

[Brown98LC]

Before I got the 300
I considered a defender.
Reason being I already had other LC's so figured why not spoil myself alittle.

I was so close to getting one.

I'm glad I didn't.

The way I use my 300 - nothing else would survive except another LC.

I still think the defender is pretty cool though.

 

[Nemo]

I'll say this about the Defender. Ever since driving a 110 Rental down in Louisiana there is no arguing the interior of those are substantially better than even this new 250/550. I loved all the cubby holes on the dash, grab handles, rear cargo storage setup. They did it right. As far as offroad manners "Meh".

Edit: To be fair I haven't had any time in the 250/550 to truly make a great comparison. Just my observation up to this point.

 

[carboncycles]

I think the Defender is an awesome vehicle (minus the very polarizing looks). As a primary driver, I couldn't risk having something that is that unreliable.

 

[Rednexus]

That picture also brings back memories of wheeling in the Subaru Forester and Subaru Outback we used to have . Great rigs for soft-roading with good pavement manners as well. I had lots of fun with ours on forest service roads and ATV trails (particularly the Forester which was barely wider than a side-by-side). Out Outback made it around a good part of the Alpine Loop, although we were passed by every other rig.

Either way, it seems like the Defender is something between a fancy crossover with more power or a IRS Nissan Armada.

 

[guy80]

I'll say this about the Defender. Ever since driving a 110 Rental down in Louisiana there is no arguing the interior of those are substantially better than even this new 250/550. I loved all the cubby holes on the dash, grab handles, rear cargo storage setup. They did it right. As far as offroad manners "Meh".

Edit: To be fair I haven't had any time in the 250/550 to truly make a great comparison. Just my observation up to this point.

I rented the 2-door for 3-4 days and put 600mi on it around Blue Ridge, GA.
Rode rougher than the 4-door I test drove at the dealership, less weight maybe over rear.

Also loved the storage areas and miss it when viewing the 550 online - curious for a test drive once my dealer gets one is (this month from what they are told)

 

[onemanarmy]

Without going too far down a rabbit hole, I have to say I am extremely impressed with the traction control / Terrain Response system in the Defender. For a few weeks a year, I help as an instructor/guide for Land Rover events and spent over a month recently in the 90, 110, and 130 on and off road at the Trek, Trophy, and Destination events. I was amazed with the limited articulation how capable the vehicle is - even on stock, pavement focused Goodyear tires.

At Destination Defender, the challenging course was a complete mud fest from 3 days of non stop rain, but the Terrain Response 2 (we also had the auto rear locking diff on the Trophy vehicles) made it possible, if not easy, for people with little experience to go through the course. What surprised me the most about the system was how seamless and quickly it responded with no noise - a welcome change from the chatter of the Toyota systems I'm used to. Lifting a wheel shows how well balanced the vehicle is, and the 4 wheel independent air suspension reminded me of the Rivian in some ways. The Rivian has more adjustability and clearance, but it also weighs ~1,500 pounds more which you can feel going down steep slippery stuff or when you lift a tire high off the ground.

As you can see here, the ground was extremely muddy and soft, but even with stock street biased tires and a wheel off the ground, it just finds traction and moves right through!

99.9999% of all cars/trucks/suvs sold will never be in a position to lift a wheel while 'offroad'

i'm surprised any manufacturer builds for that small % of people

 

[doublethebass]

99.9999% of all cars/trucks/suvs sold will never be in a position to lift a wheel while 'offroad'

i'm surprised any manufacturer builds for that small % of people

it's because "that could be me some day" sells cars

it's the entire reason the Bronco Sport exists at all

 

[Jetboy]

Lol no way

I think we need to have a competition!

The defender has better geometry for sure. And more travel than the Pilot. AWD system though is probably a wash. The Honda performs better in the standard roller slip tests I've watched. The LR did well too. But Defender has low range etc. I think we're at a point where everyone has great traction control now.

Where the flex used to be critical everywhere for traction is mostly gone. Now it's a matter of comfort and the last few percentage range of the margins of traction and terrain.

Porpoising over every obstacle is a handicap vs a vehicle that can flex without the major body motions. Softer suspension results in less work required to navigate an obstacle and all else equal the vehicle with more flex will require less forward force. Two vehicles with the same tires and traction control can still have different outcomes on the same obstacle based on having more suspension travel (and really it's not just travel, but useful travel that distributes weight. The easy example is the photos above with the giant wheel lift. In those examples there needs to be enough traction to lift the front high off the ground. Let's say it's lifting 1k kg up 40cm to ramp up and over that bump vs a vehicle that could pass through the same spot with only a 10cm front lift. The difference in work is 4 times as much for the vehicle with limited suspension travel. That doesn't necessarily translate to a system increase of 4 times as much traction required, but it could be double in the right scenario.

The second value is durability. Softer suspension = less peak force on all the components = longer service life. Same reason rubber bushings reduce component failure throughout the entire suspension system vs poly or heim joints. If you're doing it once a year it probably doesn't matter. If you're doing it regularly it starts to add up to long term reliability differences. I avoid using heim joints, spherical bushings, and poly bushings everywhere I can unless I have a really direct need for them to be cushion free like a ball joint or I can get one end with rubber.

In fairness to LR - there's a big value to adjustable height. A 10" tall rock dead center in the trail is going to be impassable to a lot of vehicles but pretty easy for the Defender with air suspension. Same with snow, mud, etc where the ruts are deep.

 

[guy80]

Saw a (early 2000's?) Honda Civic going up Chinns Trail as I was coming down.
Off roaded a stock 4runner for 17yrs in Colorado, if you don't mind dragging you can get anywhere with minimal - hence Honda Civic
I'd love to see a test with Minivan and other "grocery getters" up to G63 4x4 Squared.

Chinns Lake (lot more boulders contantly, creeping 5-7mph when I saw the Civic)

 

[carboncycles]

Isn't there a picture of a dodge canyon doing hells gate or something like that?!?

 

[Jetboy]

Isn't there a picture of a dodge canyon doing hells gate or something like that?!?

Not quite, but the bronco sport handled it:

 

[joseywales]

You can take a lot of vehicles a lot of places. Doesn’t mean you should…

I‘d take this “Baja” beetle over any of the new crossover turds. Oh, and what the hell is “soft roading”? Sounds like a bunch of mid life crisis guys with ED playing with their cars!