KDSS valve rust- WARNING (1 Viewer)

[linuxgod]

It seems best to keep it from rusting in the first place, but you are taking a risk of causing problems in moving it at all, to keep a screw moving that really isn’t needed unless you need a major repair. At which point you’d probably just replace he whole valve body anyway.
Or at least that’s how I interpreted his comment.

Yeah that's what I was saying. Since KDSS is a closed loop (air should not enter and fluid should not escape) and it's under extreme pressure (600 psi, IIRC), at the point in time when you need to bleed the KDSS system you probably have other expensive issues with the system. If the KDSS system needs to be repressurized and bled, unless it's because you opened the screws too far, the cost of a new KDSS cylinder is just icing on the repair cake.

It's worth coating in marine grease, but I wouldn't start trying to loosen it. It might be that it does nothing unless the KDSS valves are open, or it might be that 1/4 turn is enough to spray fluid everywhere.

 

[cru1s3r]

Thanks for the reminder. Just wiped the old grease off my KDSS valve and re-coated it in marine grease. The face of the valve (when wiped off) still looks brand new. For those of you with newer Cruisers, this is an easy preventative measure.

 

[Madtiger]

Yeah, i just did this 2 weeks ago. Grease the crap out of the whole unit, not just the valve...I probably went overboard.

 

[ASurfacePro]

When I verified my new to me '13 mine were frozen. Took the advice from Mud and used Aerokroil instead of PBlaster. Aerokroil is amazing, 1 application and they were free! If you don't have Aerokroil in your arsenal, I highly recommend buying a can!

 

[SilverLC]

Hey Guys. Quick question. I took yalls advice and did the soaking with PB blaster, and Kroil as well. I had no luck getting my kdss valve to budge. I also broke off an allen key perfect with the head of the screw and can not remove the damn allen key now. So i just went ahead and installed my 2 1/2in lift anyways. My truck does not lean, and i cant tell any negative affects of not doing this. Are they saying that it just makes it easier to install a lift, and is not required? Or is there another reason for releasing the valve? Thanks in advance!!

 

[kcjaz]

.......Only the two balance screws on the bottom can be opened 3 turns or less without losing system pressure.

Actually it’s 4 1/2 turns before you hear a pop and get sprayed with oil. Don’t ask how I know this.

 

[bloc]

Actually it’s 4 1/2 turns before you hear a pop and get sprayed with oil. Don’t ask how I know this.

How do you know this?


Kidding. Toyota clearly designed a buffer into their service procedures.. Actually it surprises me that it's not six or something before problems. Either way good to know we need to take it seriously.

 

[linuxgod]

Hey Guys. Quick question. I took yalls advice and did the soaking with PB blaster, and Kroil as well. I had no luck getting my kdss valve to budge. I also broke off an allen key perfect with the head of the screw and can not remove the damn allen key now. So i just went ahead and installed my 2 1/2in lift anyways. My truck does not lean, and i cant tell any negative affects of not doing this. Are they saying that it just makes it easier to install a lift, and is not required? Or is there another reason for releasing the valve? Thanks in advance!!

To get the allen wrench head out, drill a small hole in the center of it and then use an easy-out screw extractor. Since the allen head isn't a screw you don't want to unscrew it very far, just a tiny bit to pop it loose.

Lots of qualifiers here: Opening the valves allows the system to equalize between all 4 wheels. If the pressure change at each corner of your vehicle ultimately isn't any difference then not adjusting the valves is probably fine. Where you run into issues is if one side/corner is a different height (really "height differential") than the others. I think that *should* result in a lean, so if you don't have a left-to-right lean and your front-to-back rake isn't bad then again you are probably fine.

 

[SilverLC]

To get the allen wrench head out, drill a small hole in the center of it and then use an easy-out screw extractor. Since the allen head isn't a screw you don't want to unscrew it very far, just a tiny bit to pop it loose.

Lots of qualifiers here: Opening the valves allows the system to equalize between all 4 wheels. If the pressure change at each corner of your vehicle ultimately isn't any difference then not adjusting the valves is probably fine. Where you run into issues is if one side/corner is a different height (really "height differential") than the others. I think that *should* result in a lean, so if you don't have a left-to-right lean and your front-to-back rake isn't bad then again you are probably fine.

Thanks for the reply linuxgod. I will try to work on getting the screws loose. Im very close to just welding on nuts to them. I know my lift is already on, and I'm not having any problems. It just bothers me that i cant get them loose.

 

[linuxgod]

Thanks for the reply linuxgod. I will try to work on getting the screws loose. Im very close to just welding on nuts to them. I know my lift is already on, and I'm not having any problems. It just bothers me that i cant get them loose.

I can't weld (or really I've just never tried), but I'd be concerned that welding could (a) result in you accidentally welding the screw shut, or (b) damage some seal inside the KDSS cylinder due to the heat. I could certainly be wrong here.

 

[CharlieS]

I can't weld (or really I've just never tried), but I'd be concerned that welding could (a) result in you accidentally welding the screw shut, or (b) damage some seal inside the KDSS cylinder due to the heat. I could certainly be wrong here.

A bunch of us have solved stuck KDSS shutter valve screws via welding a nut on. I'm not the world's best welder, so I had a friend with a shop do it for me. Well worth the couple of bucks it cost. I wouldn't worry about it.

 

[bloc]

I can't weld (or really I've just never tried), but I'd be concerned that welding could (a) result in you accidentally welding the screw shut, or (b) damage some seal inside the KDSS cylinder due to the heat. I could certainly be wrong here.

To the contrary welding is a very very effective way to loosen stuck nuts and bolts. The rapid focused heating causes the bolt to expand at a different rate than the surrounding material. Plus the small size of the bolt means you just can’t put that much heat into the whole system, and the seals we’d need to worry about melting are pretty far from that face.

I’ve removed a number of broken bolts and studs via welding in the past and it was such a clutch procedure at the time I consider it the number 1 reason to have even a small 110 welder around.

 

[bloc]

Realized this conversation might be more useful with some photos. This was the broken exhaust bolt on the L92 I put in my 80, with a bolt extractor snapped off in the middle for good measure. The extractor snapped after putting a lot of torque on it.. but after welding the remnants of the bolt spun out like it had just been threaded in with anti-seize. Because it was flush with the side of the head I welded a washer on to the parts then a nut onto that.

 

[linuxgod]

@bloc nice. where (and how) did you learn to weld?

 

[bloc]

@bloc nice. where (and how) did you learn to weld?

I messed with it a little bit on my own but eventually got a job in a shop producing metal fences and therefore multiple hundreds of small mig welds per day.

But, mig welding is extremely easy to learn on a basic level, and that plus a little creativity is all you need to do the work posted above. The YouTube channel “welding tips and tricks” is an amazing resource covering a very broad range of skill levels, and importantly he’s dialed in how to get good video of what you’d see when welding. That is critical for knowing what to look for.

Really I think a lot of at home mechanics could benefit from getting a good helmet, decent welder and renting a cylinder (I prefer c25 for mild steel) then messing around on some scrap steel. The learning itself is fun and rewarding.. and when you can not only cut/remove metal but add it back and join parts in a solid way.. opens a lot of possibilities.

 

[bloc]

Oh! And one caveat to the above info about freeing stuck bolts. This is not the solution for galled threads! Just seized/corroded ones. For instance if I had a seriously stripped front diff drain plug this would be my go-to and I’m sure the heat would easily un-stick the plug, plus add a large nut to grab hold of if not.
Same with the KDSS screws. They tend to “crack” loose when they let go. This is exactly where heat from welding seems to work best.

 

[CharlieS]

Several decades ago I took a welding course at a night school at a local high school technical center. One night a week for a couple of months. It was a great way to learn the basics of stick, mig, tig, gas welding and brazing.

 

[scottm]

Thread revival. There are a few questions posed here about why not paint the whole thing over? Obviously you don't want to totally fill the Allen heads. I'm thinking zinc primer would be a good choice, maybe renew it every several years.

I have a 174-mile commute around the bottom of Lake Michigan, the toughest grease and wax won't hold up to wet sand and salt blasting the undercarriage at 80mph for three hours each way. I've packed brake slides with all kind of anti-seizes and greases, not much is there when I service them. Anything threaded gets thread locker, that seems to form a plastic that keeps out moisture, I go through a lot of low-strength thread locker.

My truck is sitting at O'Hare right now with almost 200 miles on the odometer. I'll probably crawl under it when I get to it on Saturday night, just to see what my KDSS looks like.

 

[bloc]

Thread revival. There are a few questions posed here about why not paint the whole thing over? Obviously you don't want to totally fill the Allen heads. I'm thinking zinc primer would be a good choice, maybe renew it every several years.

I have a 174-mile commute around the bottom of Lake Michigan, the toughest grease and wax won't hold up to wet sand and salt blasting the undercarriage at 80mph for three hours each way. I've packed brake slides with all kind of anti-seizes and greases, not much is there when I service them. Anything threaded gets thread locker, that seems to form a plastic that keeps out moisture, I go through a lot of low-strength thread locker.

My truck is sitting at O'Hare right now with almost 200 miles on the odometer. I'll probably crawl under it when I get to it on Saturday night, just to see what my KDSS looks like.

I would think the shield around the KDSS valve should keep much of the sand/salt from blasting any grease or corrosion inhibitor off of it. Though the shield itself rusting can be an issue too.. maybe take that off and get it powder coated or POR15 to keep it in good shape protecting the valve itself.

 

[scottm]

I would think the shield around the KDSS valve should keep much of the sand/salt from blasting any grease or corrosion inhibitor off of it. Though the shield itself rusting can be an issue too.. maybe take that off and get it powder coated or POR15 to keep it in good shape protecting the valve itself.

Salt and crud get everywhere that isn't hermetically sealed when I do a lot of winter highway driving. I sprayed my second fuel tank shield on my 100 with zinc primer, then rattle-can bedliner, and it is holding up well many years later. I've done rattle-can wheel clearcoats that looked new a decade later. I'm still wondering if the stuff that protects most metal products around us isn't a good option here?