KDSS - UNfrozen! :) How I did it...

[gaijin]

The shutter valves bottom out on a mechanical stop - you can not turn them in too far. Just be sure to properly torque them - I don't recall the correct torque, maybe someone else can provide that?

Here's what the valves look like:

HTH

Found it!

With all wheels on the ground, tighten the shutter valves with a 5mm hex wrench - Torque: 14 Nm (140 kgf/cm, 10 ft/lbf).

HTH

 

[yonah]

Found it!

With all wheels on the ground, tighten the shutter valves with a 5mm hex wrench - Torque: 14 Nm (140 kgf/cm, 10 ft/lbf).

HTH

You answered my next question before I could even ask it. As always @gaijin excellent content. Thank you,

 

[NautiqueGuy]

I’m about to get my new LC, but I’ll need to inspect it well first.

I will be putting a lift on it immediately, so I understand I’ll need my KDSS free for that.

Otherwise, what would I need these free for?

I guess my question is. How bad is it if they are left rusted?

 

[OregonLC]

My rescued Cali Mall Cruiser had minimal rust and opened right up. Although, I'm definitely going to exercise them regularly going forward. I like the idea of treating it as a PM with the OCI.

However, what I was surprised by was the amount of force it still took to manipulate the anti-sway bar when doing the lift even with the valves open. On both the front and the rear it took a spare floor jack to persuade the final connections to line up. It wasn't like the jack was lifting the truck up, but it was more force than I could develop with one hand.

 

[yonah]

I’m about to get my new LC, but I’ll need to inspect it well first.

I will be putting a lift on it immediately, so I understand I’ll need my KDSS free for that.

Otherwise, what would I need these free for?

I guess my question is. How bad is it if they are left rusted?

If by new you mean new to you (i.e. used), definitely inspect the valve body and screws located on the inner frame rail underneath the drivers side rear door. A lot of rust and I would personally look elsewhere. Adjusting those screws is risky and the OP was very lucky.

I've read that a lift can still be installed if the KDSS adjustment screws are frozen; it takes some brute force and extra floor jacks to manipulate the sway bar. However, I'm not sure how one would reset the system after the lift if the vehicle leaned to one side or another - as that requires the screws to be loosened.

 

[SWUtah]

When the KDDS is frozen does it just not uncouple and it just acts like a solid anti swaybar bar?

 

[linuxgod]

When the KDDS is frozen does it just not uncouple and it just acts like a solid stabilizer bar?

The KDSS system still works even if the screws are frozen, since they're only rusted on the outside.

In theory you can still lift the vehicle even if it is frozen. If the left-right and front-rear balance doesn't change then the KDSS doesn't actually need to "adjust", but it'll be a bitch to get the suspension parts out. And if you do end up with less rake (for instance) the KDSS system does apparently adjust itself over time to re-level the vehicle, but it may be on the order of weeks or months before it does.

 

[NautiqueGuy]

The KDSS system still works even if the screws are frozen, since they're only rusted on the outside.

In theory you can still lift the vehicle even if it is frozen. If the left-right and front-rear balance doesn't change then the KDSS doesn't actually need to "adjust", but it'll be a bitch to get the suspension parts out. And if you do end up with less rake (for instance) the KDSS system does apparently adjust itself over time to re-level the vehicle, but it may be on the order of weeks or months before it does.

What about simply adding a strut spacer?

Do you need to unscrew the KDSS to do that?

And when you say KDSS will re-levelthe vehicle, do you mean it will overuse the leveling and add rake back in? Or it just adjusts to work with the new level?

 

[linuxgod]

What about simply adding a strut spacer?

Do you need to unscrew the KDSS to do that?

And when you say KDSS will re-levelthe vehicle, do you mean it will overuse the leveling and add rake back in? Or it just adjusts to work with the new level?

If you want to remove the strut to put a spacer on top then you probably *want* to loosen the KDSS screws 2-3 turns as it will make it much easier to get the strut out.

I had the dealer install a strut spacer for me as part of some other work including tire mounting and I'm pretty sure they did not open the KDSS valve as when I opened it a couple months later to put on a full lift the bluish marine grease I had slathered over the screws was still fully intact.

KDSS is a pressurized system. It's oversimplified but think of those 2 screws as separating 4 independent chambers. When you open them up the fluid can flow between any of the wheels easily. But they are set screws, so when you tighten them down they lock the fluid in place. If your rear end is on jack stands but the front is on the ground, the front will be compressed and will push fluid towards the rear. Then when you tighten them and set the vehicle back down the rear will have more pressure in it. That increases rear anti-sway bar stiffness but decreases the front. It also means as you compress a front wheel you would get less wheel travel in the rear than if the system were equalized. Now in the case of adding a 2" lift all around, there would be much less imbalance in the system so it should have minimal impact on handling.

In the description above the KDSS system is sealed and once you tighten the set screws you're done. But I've read that KDSS will naturally rebalance itself over time, and that some "cruiser lean" may be attributed to regularly parking on a non-flat surface (like a driveway at an angle) for long periods of time. I don't entirely understand how it works but I suspect that if the pressure is significantly different between chambers that a very small amount of fluid will "leak" between chambers over time, effectively rebalancing the system. Not sure if this is an intentional part of the design or just an artifact of a 600psi system with adjustment in it.

 

[NautiqueGuy]

If you want to remove the strut to put a spacer on top then you probably *want* to loosen the KDSS screws 2-3 turns as it will make it much easier to get the strut out.

I had the dealer install a strut spacer for me as part of some other work including tire mounting and I'm pretty sure they did not open the KDSS valve as when I opened it a couple months later to put on a full lift the bluish marine grease I had slathered over the screws was still fully intact.

KDSS is a pressurized system. It's oversimplified but think of those 2 screws as separating 4 independent chambers. When you open them up the fluid can flow between any of the wheels easily. But they are set screws, so when you tighten them down they lock the fluid in place. If your rear end is on jack stands but the front is on the ground, the front will be compressed and will push fluid towards the rear. Then when you tighten them and set the vehicle back down the rear will have more pressure in it. That increases rear anti-sway bar stiffness but decreases the front. It also means as you compress a front wheel you would get less wheel travel in the rear than if the system were equalized. Now in the case of adding a 2" lift all around, there would be much less imbalance in the system so it should have minimal impact on handling.

In the description above the KDSS system is sealed and once you tighten the set screws you're done. But I've read that KDSS will naturally rebalance itself over time, and that some "cruiser lean" may be attributed to regularly parking on a non-flat surface (like a driveway at an angle) for long periods of time. I don't entirely understand how it works but I suspect that if the pressure is significantly different between chambers that a very small amount of fluid will "leak" between chambers over time, effectively rebalancing the system. Not sure if this is an intentional part of the design or just an artifact of a 600psi system with adjustment in it.

If love to see a pic of your truck with the strut spacer on...

 

[linuxgod]

If love to see a pic of your truck with the strut spacer on...

There's a photo in this thread but it's on 34s, not the stock 31s or more typical 33s on RW wheels that many people have, so the tire proportions may not match what you have. Also I have a set of Firestone air bags inside the rear coils, so that lifts the rear about 1/2" when unloaded.

34's on stock setup - it's done, now some advice...

 

[yonah]

Thanks for the help gents

Post #37

 

[BVCOTaco]

After reading this thread the other week, I decided to check the KDSS screws. I sprayed some PB Blaster on them, waited a few minutes and check them. Glad to report that they moved freely and have very minimal rust no the surface. Mine is a 2013 with 112K and spent all of its life up un

 

[Hoosier Daddy]

Yesterday I was crawling around under my new-to-me 2010 LC, marveling at how clean and rust-free the chassis appeared. Today I went out to specifically look at the KDSS valve and it wasn't nearly as pretty. I tried some light pressure on the bolts without success, but feared getting too aggressive lest I strip out the heads.

The lift is still a month or two away, so time is on my side. I'll follow the OP's lead and will spend the next few weeks soaking them periodically in 50/50 acetone and ATF. If I get a wild hair, maybe I'll dab a little muriatic acid on there. That stuff eats rust for breakfast, but it's as dangerous as the devil.

 

[RickC5]

I realize this post is a bit late in coming, but it's not too surprising to find a wiring harness in the US version that has unconnected plugs. After all, the US market for the 200 is only a small fraction of the total world-wide market where a variety of versions of the 200 are sold.

 

[ZenCruiser]

To OP/NLScooby

Just want to thank the OP about this AeroKroil oil treatment. My 08 LC200's KDSS screws looked bad upon inspection (this LC spent its first 4-5 years in New England). PB Blaster/WD40 did not help; after a week of soaking, mechanic stood under truck with long ratchet and proclaimed that the valves were frozen shut and he did not want to strip the screws. Been hesitating about visiting welding shop.

Then sprayed with AeroKroil Oil once, both screws came loose upon first try about about 3 days. $20 well spent.

Without them coming loose, my Tough Dog susp would have to wait until who knows when. Now, on to installing TD.

Thank you.

 

[DPA200]

I wish my 2011 came with a Flux Capacitor.

Its been over a year since I sprayed the KDSS vlv's with LPS 3 and there is no new rust and valves move free.

When I had the cover off I reversed the connector in question so it is on the inside of the KDSS vlv cover. I just figured it would be one less thing to get torn off by a branch.

Did you spray the LPS 3 on the threads, or did you use some sort of other Anti-Seize Lubricant for that part, and only put the LPS3 after the screws were screwed back in? I have some LPS3 left laying around (from your suggestion when installing the budbuilt sliders). I do not have any specific Anti-Seize Lubricant around, curious what others used on the threads specifically. Mine broke free after 6 days, now i want to treat them right

 

[scooterp7]

kroil is good stuff. A friend in the gas turbine business gave me some years ago. Said it was the best stuff they ever used. I have used it on a bunch of stuck fasteners. It is undefeated.

 

[4gotalot]

Did you spray the LPS 3 on the threads, or did you use some sort of other Anti-Seize Lubricant for that part, and only put the LPS3 after the screws were screwed back in? I have some LPS3 left laying around (from your suggestion when installing the budbuilt sliders). I do not have any specific Anti-Seize Lubricant around, curious what others used on the threads specifically. Mine broke free after 6 days, now i want to treat them right

Good job getting the valves to break loose.

I put the LPS 3 on the exposed threads when the valves were backed out no more than 3 turns then torqued. I then sprayed LPS 3 on all of the cast surface of the KDSS valve. I just crawled under the cruiser with a flashlight and there is a 3/4 inch square area of light rust on the front leading edge were the cast meets the frame and the bolt holds the assembly to the frame and is in direct line from a blasting of road slush.

Not bad results for one application and a couple of years of exposure of what ever they use on the roads in the winter around here.

 

[DPA200]

Good job getting the valves to break loose.

I put the LPS 3 on the exposed threads when the valves were backed out no more than 3 turns then torqued. I then sprayed LPS 3 on all of the cast surface of the KDSS valve. I just crawled under the cruiser with a flashlight and there is a 3/4 inch square area of light rust on the front leading edge were the cast meets the frame and the bolt holds the assembly to the frame and is in direct line from a blasting of road slush.

Not bad results for one application and a couple of years of exposure of what ever they use on the roads in the winter around here.

Thanks! I’ll give mine the same treatment. That stuff worked great in the past