It’s time for my first tire alignment and I need some guidance. (1 Viewer)

[Artie]

First off, here are the suspension and tire specs:

SPC Upper control arms. BP51 with 2 inch lift, tires 285/70R18

Symptoms:

Recently steering wheel points slightly right but truck seems to track straight.

Truck has roughly 20k miles as do the ridge grapplers. It’s primarily used for camping and adventure trips towing on and off road.

I’ve just spent some time reading through lots of alignment posts and comments and I’m more confused now than before…before was more of an ignorance is bliss mindset so I figured I’d better just ask before going to the alignment shop.

It seems like the caster setting can greatly affect the driving characteristics and needs to be on the higher end of “in range”, where should I be aiming at for this?

Other settings… same question. Just get them in range or is there a sweet spot?

Do I go in for alignment with gas and aux tank full? We tow a lot with this truck so should try to replicate with weight or does this matter?

As far as the shop I’m going to use… I pass a sweet 100 series when taking the kids to school so this morning I stoped in that business and asked him who he uses. My plan is to go there unless anyone knows of a good place in north east Georgia.

Any help is greatly appreciated.

 

[Heckraiser]

Do you have aftermarket UCA's?

Caster: Aim for the biggest number you can get, IMO. Shoot for 4* if possible. This is the biggest factor for tracking straight down the road. High caster also has a slight "negative camber" effect on the outside tire when turning, so this can also help handling a little.

Camber. As close to zero as possible, without going positive. Even a *little* positive camber is not acceptable, IMO. Zero will be best for tire wear. A little negative camber will improve handling/turn-in a little bit in the curves, but will wear the inside of the tire faster. Up to you if it's worth the trade off.

Toe: I don't know much about IFS toe, so I'll not offer an opinion here. I know solid axle vehicles with large tires, it's good to dial in a little toe-in for straight-line stability. I don't know if that applies to this platform.

Your off center steering wheel might be from a curb impact or wheeling impact and can probably be adjusted out at the tie rods. It is possible for the alignment to still be in spec and have the steering wheel off like this.

 

[Artie]

Do you have aftermarket UCA's?

Caster: Aim for the biggest number you can get, IMO. Shoot for 4* if possible. This is the biggest factor for tracking straight down the road. High caster also has a slight "negative camber" effect on the outside tire when turning, so this can also help handling a little.

Camber. As close to zero as possible, without going positive. Even a *little* positive camber is not acceptable, IMO. Zero will be best for tire wear. A little negative camber will improve handling/turn-in a little bit in the curves, but will wear the inside of the tire faster. Up to you if it's worth the trade off.

Toe: I don't know much about IFS toe, so I'll not offer an opinion here. I know solid axle vehicles with large tires, it's good to dial in a little toe-in for straight-line stability. I don't know if that applies to this platform.

Your off center steering wheel might be from a curb impact or wheeling impact and can probably be adjusted out at the tie rods. It is possible for the alignment to still be in spec and have the steering wheel off like this.

Yes, I have SPC UCA’s and have added that to my post.

We had just spent the day before on some forest service roads with plenty of pot holes so the steering wheel issue may have come from that, we don’t drive this Cruiser often but when we do we make it count.

Thanks for your suggestions, I feel good about going in with some idea on what to aim for.

I’d rather give up some tire life for better turn in, I feel like it’s worth the trade off.

 

[TLC2013]

I shoot for these numbers for my alignments. Depending on the competency of the tech they either nail it or get close which has served we well.
With KDSS and 34” tires I have experienced rubbing on the driver side KDSS when caster creeps above 3 degrees. Rubbing is mainly present during tight u-turns and when articulating the suspension.
On the flip side my most recent alignment has caster only at 2.6 degrees due to the techs incompetency and now I am seeing a decent amount of rubbing at the rear of the driver side fender liner and am even kissing the body mount with a 25mm wheel offset. This rubbing only occurs when fully exercising the suspension. Switching to a more conservative offset, like 35mm, has me still clearing the KDSS While also easily clearing the body mount and fender liner.

While I prefer to have caster at 3.0-3.2 degrees, being in the mid 2 degree range has not caused much of a difference in driving behavior. Slightly less straight tracking on the highway, around town it’s unnoticeable.
I plan on getting another alignment when time permits. Not in a rush as the 35mm offset wheel makes for an easy fit without any rubbing.
Before going back to a 25mm offset which are on my MT tires I do plan to get caster bumped up to 2.8-3.2 degrees in order to clear the body mount and rear fender liner.

 

[Artie]

I shoot for these numbers for my alignments. Depending on the competency of the tech they either nail it or get close which has served we well.
With KDSS and 34” tires I have experienced rubbing on the driver side KDSS when caster creeps above 3 degrees. Rubbing is mainly present during tight u-turns and when articulating the suspension.
On the flip side my most recent alignment has caster only at 2.6 degrees due to the techs incompetency and now I am seeing a decent amount of rubbing at the rear of the driver side fender liner and am even kissing the body mount with a 25mm wheel offset. This rubbing only occurs when fully exercising the suspension. Switching to a more conservative offset, like 35mm, has me still clearing the KDSS While also easily clearing the body mount and fender liner.

While I prefer to have caster at 3.0-3.2 degrees, being in the mid 2 degree range has not caused much of a difference in driving behavior. Slightly less straight tracking on the highway, around town it’s unnoticeable.
I plan on getting another alignment when time permits. Not in a rush as the 35mm offset wheel makes for an easy fit without any rubbing.
Before going back to a 25mm offset which are on my MT tires I do plan to get caster bumped up to 2.8-3.2 degrees in order to clear the body mount and rear fender liner.

View attachment 3453308

Thanks for the data sheet, very helpful. We take a massive road trip every year where I may do 12 plus hours on the interstate, sounds like a minimum of 3 on the caster is what I’m wanting.

 

[32cls6speedmt]

Try Woodstock Marietta Acworth or Kennesaw GA, 30188 30144 30066 Auto Maintenance or Car Repair Centers Near Me - https://greerautoservices.com/. Greer auto service. They do a lot of lifts and have great reviews. Look at all the photos online and they have great reviews. Prices are reasonable. They might on not conveniently located based on where you live. Patrick Greer is the owner and very friendly.

 

[Artie]

Try Woodstock Marietta Acworth or Kennesaw GA, 30188 30144 30066 Auto Maintenance or Car Repair Centers Near Me - https://greerautoservices.com/. Greer auto service. They do a lot of lifts and have great reviews. Look at all the photos online and they have great reviews. Prices are reasonable. They might on not conveniently located based on where you live. Patrick Greer is the owner and very friendly.

They are located in my old stomping grounds, I went to high school about 10 min from there.

Thanks for the tip!

 

[Artie]

I decided to go this morning for the alignment because we are camping this weekend so I figured I’d better get this corrected sooner rather than later. Below are the results. I asked for something between 3.2 - 4 for caster and -.1 on camber. They only fixed the toe issue and left the others alone. I decided to keep it like this for now and address the rest when I get tires next. The shop was ok but I wasn’t crazy about it so I’ll either make the drive to the shop suggested above or ask do some research for something close by me.

Otherwise, the toe correction fixed my issues. Thanks for all the input.

 

[bigredmachine]

your numbers look fine, personally i would have tweeked the camber on the right side a bit but not much as long as it didnt change the caster too bad. when you adjust either camber or caster with the eccentric you have to adjust both as one affects that other and sometimes you just have to try to find a balance between castor and camber to prevent a pull or tire wear.

 

[TeCKis300]

That was probably the easiest money they made all day. Toyota body on frame trucks can't benefit from 4-wheel alignments as there's no knobs in the rear axle to adjust. They only had to touch the front steering rack tire rod ends, and possibly only on one side.

In regards to "optimal" alignment... For a stock rig or a rig that's been modified with good stock like geometry, the middle of spec'd ranges are great.

Generally
- The platform does not need much caster.
- LC calls for perhaps a touch of positive camber which is not ideal for big tires and handling, but likely to compensate for brake dive to keep the tire more square in that dynamic condition for good braking performance
- Toe, or more specifically total toe should never be exactly zero. The range allows for just a touch of positive or negative total toe to load the tires just a touch one way or another. A touch of toe in may be preferred.

Rigs that are modified to a great degree with compromised geometry in terms of extreme lifts and wheel offsets can benefit from some alignment tweaking.

- Higher caster can be used to compensate for some loss of directional stability due to too aggressive wheel offsets / scrub radius geometry. I know lots say +25 offset is good and okay, but this is the minutia that matters. Caster also plays into wheel clearance fore and aft of the wheel well. Some UCAs have stock caster geometry, while some build in some caster. Built in caster gets alignment better but it also pulls the wheel into the body mount. SPCs are fully adjustable and can be biased from stock to adding or subtracting caster. More caster when dialed in from the LCA can create more clearance against the BM and help narrow 33s and 34s clear that. Though I recommend a BMC if needed.

- Some more negative camber can be preferred for bigger tires and more lift as tires with high profile sidewalls well tend to roll over more easily in cornering. Also high lifts tend to reduce track width and some negative camber and compensate for that loss of stability. For really large tires with aggressive offsets, negative camber can help tuck the top of the tire under the fender lip.

 

[TeCKis300]

Forgot to touch on towing. This one could have many factors and can be complicated.

Ideally, as it would be for a stock vehicle, there is no need to bias alignment for towing.

With more aggressive lifts and wheel offsets, it makes the vehicle more sensitive to the affects of towing, as it can affect the ride height and attitude of the tow vehicle. Stability, toe steer, and steering pull being potentially big areas of concern.

I won't get into it here but there many aspects to setting up a good tow configuration that may have greater impacts to towing stability than just alignment, but I'll focus only on the latter.

With towing, and to a greater degree with heavier tow loads, the tendency is to lighten the front axle as the cantilevered tongue weight pushes down on the ball. This raises the ride height of the front axle. That's why weight distributing hitches are important but generally, they will only return a portion of the load back to the front axle. The front axle will still ride incrementally higher, i.e. more front suspension lift.

This could warrant dialing in more caster when setting up alignment, assuming that you'll lose some caster with tow loads as the front end rides higher. Having a strong sense of straight ahead is important to towing and where extra caster can help. I mentioned steering pull as a result of aggressive offsets earlier. The extra caster can also to a degree compensate for that.

 

[Artie]

Forgot to touch on towing. This one could have many factors and can be complicated.

Ideally, as it would be for a stock vehicle, there is no need to bias alignment for towing.

With more aggressive lifts and wheel offsets, it makes the vehicle more sensitive to the affects of towing, as it can affect the ride height and attitude of the tow vehicle. Stability, toe steer, and steering pull being potentially big areas of concern.

I won't get into it here but there many aspects to setting up a good tow configuration that may have greater impacts to towing stability than just alignment, but I'll focus only on the latter.

With towing, and to a greater degree with heavier tow loads, the tendency is to lighten the front axle as the cantilevered tongue weight pushes down on the ball. This raises the ride height of the front axle. That's why weight distributing hitches are important but generally, they will only return a portion of the load back to the front axle. The front axle will still ride incrementally higher, i.e. more front suspension lift.

This could warrant dialing in more caster when setting up alignment, assuming that you'll lose some caster with tow loads as the front end rides higher. Having a strong sense of straight ahead is important to towing and where extra caster can help. I mentioned steering pull as a result of aggressive offsets earlier. The extra caster can also to a degree compensate for that.

As always, I look forward to your depth of knowledge and reminders of how much I don’t know. I’ll be towing this weekend but I don’t expect any changes in behavior vs pre alignment behaviors.

With air bags and the ability to keep the truck level under load I’m assuming this would cancel out the lighter front load need for caster as you mentioned?

 

[Killacaviar]

I decided to go this morning for the alignment because we are camping this weekend so I figured I’d better get this corrected sooner rather than later. Below are the results. I asked for something between 3.2 - 4 for caster and -.1 on camber. They only fixed the toe issue and left the others alone. I decided to keep it like this for now and address the rest when I get tires next. The shop was ok but I wasn’t crazy about it so I’ll either make the drive to the shop suggested above or ask do some research for something close by me.

Otherwise, the toe correction fixed my issues. Thanks for all the input.

View attachment 3453770

This is a common toe a go.

Unless you hand over a sheet and tell them to match it, most shops Take this route if they lack experience with these.

I’ve been in situations where it took 3 shops in 3 weeks to finally get it right. Dealers included.

 

[TeCKis300]

As always, I look forward to your depth of knowledge and reminders of how much I don’t know. I’ll be towing this weekend but I don’t expect any changes in behavior vs pre alignment behaviors.

With air bags and the ability to keep the truck level under load I’m assuming this would cancel out the lighter front load need for caster as you mentioned?

Bags can help with back end stability to keep the panhard sagitta in the sweet part of its stroke to minimize rear steer effects if your squatting a lot. It won't do much for the front axle though

 

[Artie]

This is a common toe a go.

Unless you hand over a sheet and tell them to match it, most shops Take this route if they lack experience with these.

I’ve been in situations where it took 3 shops in 3 weeks to finally get it right. Dealers included.

Toe and go… sums it up well, it was $75 and an hour.

The guy wrote out my request in big red ink on the service request so the tech had the instructions. I think it boils down to the shop, churn and burn. I’m good for now but will be looking for a more agreeable and passionate about alignment type shop.

 

[clrussell]

If you make the trek through southern Missouri hit me up. We schedule 8 alignments a day every day. My guy will listen to what I ask him to do.

We do A lot of Landcruisers for a local builder.

Otherwise there are some adjustments that should have been made, toe would have been. Contributing factor to tire wear how it was.

Also, did you build your 200 or buy it lifted? It would have got an alignment then, otherwise it would have chewed the tires slick by now.

 

[Artie]

If you make the trek through southern Missouri hit me up. We schedule 8 alignments a day every day. My guy will listen to what I ask him to do.

We do A lot of Landcruisers for a local builder.

Otherwise there are some adjustments that should have been made, toe would have been. Contributing factor to tire wear how it was.

Also, did you build your 200 or buy it lifted? It would have got an alignment then, otherwise it would have chewed the tires slick by now.

We do a big trip out west every year so I may be hitting you up next summer a few weeks before we leave.

We had all the work done before we took delivery and tire wear hasn’t been an issue. I’m one of those obsessive types when it comes to maintenance but have trust issues with shops…I take all 5 wheels off and carry them to the shop to get balanced. Most people think I’m crazy but not on here haha

 

[clrussell]

We do a big trip out west every year so I may be hitting you up next summer a few weeks before we leave.

We had all the work done before we took delivery and tire wear hasn’t been an issue. I’m one of those obsessive types when it comes to maintenance but have trust issues with shops…I take all 5 wheels off and carry them to the shop to get balanced. Most people think I’m crazy but not on here haha

I strive to be the shop that you don’t have to carry your own tires into.

I’d be glad to help out in the future and see the setup!

 

[Artie]

So towing today the driving characteristics are different and not in a good way. Under acceleration it pulls to the left and feels more darty in general. Before I had the alignment done, towing was not any different than regular driving as far as effort to keep straight on the road, now I’m actually having to drive… if this makes sense.

What would be the best way to communicate this to the alignment shop? I’m debating on going to a different one but I may give them another shot.

 

[TeCKis300]

So towing today the driving characteristics are different and not in a good way. Under acceleration it pulls to the left and feels more darty in general. Before I had the alignment done, towing was not any different than regular driving as far as effort to keep straight on the road, now I’m actually having to drive… if this makes sense.

What would be the best way to communicate this to the alignment shop? I’m debating on going to a different one but I may give them another shot.

Interesting. Based on alignment numbers, I would expect it to tow better. Your toe was pretty far out prior and when towing, I would have expected it to exacerbate that. They've dialed in toe reasonably well which should compensate better when towing?

It's possible after an alignment that it take some miles for the tire to scrub back in to the alignment. Based on your description, it seems to be more than that?

Have you changed anything in your towing setup?

May want a bit more caster? Could also try to rotate the tires.