cruisedeisel
Toyota's for life
gerg might be onto something ^^^
Isuzu powered FJ140 (6 Viewers)
- Thread starter kowalski
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- #163
SO the dealership wasn't willing to touch the truck, not entirely surprising...
So we found some internet and found a place called F&M Auto Repair, looks like a nice clean shop, Farshid the owner was very very nice and they were willing to do the work for a reasonable price and they have a few positive online reviews, which is always nice.
Topped off the oil and drove the truck 20 miles on 2 cylinders, we were still able to do 80km/h which is seemed crazy impressive to me.
We got our first burner phone today, checked into our first airbnb and took our first uber.
So we found some internet and found a place called F&M Auto Repair, looks like a nice clean shop, Farshid the owner was very very nice and they were willing to do the work for a reasonable price and they have a few positive online reviews, which is always nice.
Topped off the oil and drove the truck 20 miles on 2 cylinders, we were still able to do 80km/h which is seemed crazy impressive to me.
We got our first burner phone today, checked into our first airbnb and took our first uber.
So hope the mechanic is good to ya. Why wouldn't the Isuzu guys work on the engine? So it runs on 2 cylinders and drives. Impressive. Your in my prayers buddy?
g
g
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- #165
It runs on 2 cylinders, but it needs to idle at 1,500rpm to stay running and its rough but its still got more power then a non turbo 3B lol!
Thank you.
cruisedeisel
Toyota's for life
Hmmm? DOesn't sound like its completely toast. More power than a 3b? WHAT??? Compression test first? Or just take the head off?
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- #167
I pulled the glow plugs and the middle 2 were soaked in oil, heads gotta come off. It's not completely toast but it needs to come apart. Going to do sleeves and pistons.
Here's a question, I have the option of going with 3 ring pistons or 4 ring pistons. Seems like it would seal better with 4 rings, especially with boost but it may wear the sleeves quicker with 4 rings, or not because the piston would in theory be kept in truer alignment with the cylinder.
Thoughts?
As in 3 compression and 1 oil ring? I like the sound of 3 compression rings. Id be very tempted to do that if it was an official Isuzu upgrade. Hmm... any long term reports from them? I don't even know who you would even ask. Maybe that Isuzu dealer could give you some feedback?If the rings are Isuzu and of the same design I cant see how an extra ring would be a drawback. I guess you could open the ring gap on the first to accommodate greater boost and temps and still minimise blowby via the third ring. Might be a win win. I remember Dougal mentioning that some Isuzu engines have a lot of blowby specifically because the ring gap is greater to allow for more ring expansion, end to end that is, in high boost applications. I might have dreamt that. I dream weird stuff sometimes.
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- #169
Correct, there were certain applications that got 4 rings instead of 3, they are isuzu parts. Logan diesel builds 4BG1T's fairly frequently but they didn't have much of an opinion either way even when I asked.
I do agree with your line of thinking and I did have a bit of blow by before, but it made no measurable impact on the dip stick between oil changes.
I'm not going to go with OEM pistons and liners though, they have an aftermarket brand as another option which were less than half the price and they had nothing but good things to say about them. I am replacing my main cap bolts and rod bolts this time though.
If I went with Isuzu liners and pistons its actually almost the same price to rebuild as it is to buy a complete long block brand new from isuzu.
Wow
How much for an Isuzu long block? Gulp.
Down in this part of the world it's about $NZ8k for a long block. That's about $US5-6K.
Make sure any pistons are Alfin type with the reinforced ring lands. The only pistons I've seen with 3 compression rings are Perkins AD153. Interestingly enough it was a home turbocharged Perkins AD3-152 which didn't have enough ring-gap and ate it's bores too. The hotter a turbo engine runs, the bigger ring-gap it needs. Let us know what you find. That's a rough start to the journey!
Make sure any pistons are Alfin type with the reinforced ring lands. The only pistons I've seen with 3 compression rings are Perkins AD153. Interestingly enough it was a home turbocharged Perkins AD3-152 which didn't have enough ring-gap and ate it's bores too. The hotter a turbo engine runs, the bigger ring-gap it needs. Let us know what you find. That's a rough start to the journey!
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- #173
Greg, the 4bd1t long blocks are cheaper then the 4BG1t long blocks, the 4BG1t comes in at about 8K usd
Dougal,
Motor itself never even showed signs of overheating, ever. Though it kind of makes sense the middle 2 cylinders would suffer the most in the scenario you proposed, which makes sense...
Will know more tonight when the pictures of the pistons come in...
Highest I ever rang the EGT's was 1,200 for a very short period of time, but I have sustained 1,000 for a good 45 minutes
Dougal,
Motor itself never even showed signs of overheating, ever. Though it kind of makes sense the middle 2 cylinders would suffer the most in the scenario you proposed, which makes sense...
Will know more tonight when the pictures of the pistons come in...
Highest I ever rang the EGT's was 1,200 for a very short period of time, but I have sustained 1,000 for a good 45 minutes
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Once you get the head off it should be obvious. I've run 900C accidentally on my engine and routinely run 750C sustained. But I know my probe is in the hottest spot and my ring-gaps are big. 0.4mm (17 thou). My engine has a lot of blowby due to these big end-gaps.
What were your current piston and liners from?
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- #175
Current pistons and liners were the OEM ones, they were in good enough shape to re-use, or so it seemed at least. Pistons were the bowl shape with the cone in the center if I recall correct
I used OEM rings which were supplied based on the serial number on the block
750C sustained, holy, how many km do you have on the motor?
My motor has a long and terrible history with air-cleaners that leak dust, valve guides that got loose and fed debris into the oil pump and even using the wrong rings which chewed out a set of liners in 27,000km.
Currently has about 10 years and a bit over 50,000km on a set of cheap ungraded chrome liners on aftermarket pistons with genuine rings. The rings are broken on at least one cylinder from oil ingestion from a terrible oil/air seperator which sucked about 15 litres of oil out of the sump and fed it into my intake. That episode resulted in a head-gasket blown on all cylinders. I put a new headgasket in and will deal with the liners and pistons when I have more time.
Still driving great with good power/torque and excellent fuel economy. But it burns a bit of oil.
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- #177
Wow that is quite a bit of abuse! After all of our time in the desert, I noticed dust in my intake piping too.... I have been dilligent about replacing air cleaners very very frequently, however I had stopped at a place to get my valves adjusted while my wife and I explored the town, and I did not check the work over after... After we completed our time in Moab, which was about 10 days of driving in dust storms I replaced the air cleaner and noticed that they had put the intake boot back on the turbo but tightened the hose clamp down over nothing, meaning I was likely sucking dust in for the entire time I was in Moab...
SO I asked if they were the "alfin type pistons with the reinforced ring lands" and I was told they are "exactly like OEM" what does that mean to you?
Dougal, sounds like your motor runs on love. Perhaps more like tuff love it sounds. Amazing engine I gotta say. Very well designed.
Reinforced pistons are easy to spot. They have a discernible different colour metal which forms the ring land where as the rest of the piston is aluminum alloy. If you look at it close it will be immediately obvious. If it just all looks like aluminum then its not reinforced.
Don't sweat the intake too much for a short period like that unless your inducer is majorly eroded or gouged. If you need another turbo let me know. I can ship you one while you rebuild.
Reinforced pistons are easy to spot. They have a discernible different colour metal which forms the ring land where as the rest of the piston is aluminum alloy. If you look at it close it will be immediately obvious. If it just all looks like aluminum then its not reinforced.
Don't sweat the intake too much for a short period like that unless your inducer is majorly eroded or gouged. If you need another turbo let me know. I can ship you one while you rebuild.
When I inherited my vehicle the air-cleaner had elements in it (two in parallel, bizarre setup) which were an inch short and didn't touch the sealing face. I took a whole shovel full of dust out of the air-cleaner and I'm guessing at least another shovel went straight through. Turbo compressor was toast, engine had a lot of blowby but didn't lose oil. Turns out the only thing holding oil in was a bottle-neck in the intake which meant the engine was strangled. I fixed the bottleneck and suddenly it had soo much blowby that I lose all engine oil in a 4 hour trip.
Ah yes, it's been an interesting and frustrating journey.
Pistons just like OEM, sure. The aftermarket pistons I've got in currently are visibly identical in every way (except for the Isuzu logo) to the original pistons that came out of my engine. So clearly either piston makers are very good at copying or they grey-market the same parts without the branding. It's hard to know.
- Thread starter
- #180
So how did you determine what your ring gap should be? Did you use a formula?
This is from the Isuzu 4bg1t manual:
Piston Ring and Piston Ring Groove Clearance mm (in)
1st Compression 0.35–0.50 (0.014–0.020)
2nd Compression 0.60–0.75 (0.0236–0.0295)
3rd Compression 0.60–0.75 (0.0236–0.0295)
Oil Ring 0.30–0.50 (0.014–0.020)
while the formula lands the 1st compression ring around 0.0248" or 0.62992mm for the "turbo diesel" application and for the over 15lbs of boost application I'm at 0.0289 or 0.735mm
This is from the Mahle pistons website:
Application Top Ring / Second Ring / Oil Ring Rail
High Performance Street - NA Bore x 0.0045" / Bore x 0.0040" / Min 0.015"
Circle Track, Drag Racing - NA Bore x 0.0050" / Bore x 0.0060" / Min 0.015"
Nitrous up to 200HP (25HP/cyl) Bore x 0.0060" / Bore x 0.0050" / Min 0.015"
Nitrous over 200HP (25HP/cyl) Bore x 0.0070" / Bore x 0.0070" / Min 0.015"
Turbo/Supercharged up to 15lb Bore x 0.0060" / Bore x 0.0050" / Min 0.015"
Turbo/Supercharged over 15lb Bore x 0.0070" / Bore x 0.0070" / Min 0.015"
Diesel - Turbocharged Bore x 0.0060" / Bore x 0.0055" / Min 0.015"
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