Is this a reasonable price to replace a head gasket? (3 Viewers)

[SpenserAK]

f***, I guess so... Have to start making sure I'm doing a better job at that. But since I've never seen the temperature gauge get to overheating temps, do you think the head and block are still fine?

Only way to know is to check, really. Depends how bad and how long it's overheated (assuming it did at all), and other factors. If you can confirm the gasket is bad, it's going to get opened up regardless, and those things will be checked by anyone worth trusting to do the job

Since you stated a specific temp of 194, I assume you have a gauge plugged in?

 

[BILT4ME]

s***, I guess not... They also recommended to do a flush every two years. I would also expect it to overheat if I was low on coolant. On the 10min drive home, the rig never got above 194 F. I'm unfortunately thinking that yes I do have a bad HG. Even if I decided to have them do it, they wouldn't be able to get me in till mid Dec early Jan. Then they would have it for a couple months, so I wouldn't get the rig back till like Feb or late Mar. Which is winter time lol.

Just a learning point:

When a HG goes or there is an "air pocket" in the cooling system, the temp sending units can actually see low numbers or spike super high. They rely on fluid contact to give proper readings. If there is a pocket of air around them, they may actually drop and show low temps. The other side is sometimes the air pocket will get super heated and cause steam in the air pocket and may cause it to spike, but it will go high, then low in a matter of seconds. (This is more common on other makes than the 1FZ)

The reason your overflow tank level wasn't changing is because there was no vacuum in the radiator to suck or draw fluid to/from the overflow tank because your system is no longer sealed. The system could draw air in from somewhere to equalize pressure.

It could be leaking into a cylinder, have a leaking hose, or a leaking oil cooler, although each will show up with different symptoms. That's why it's so important to PROPERLY diagnose the root cause, rather than just say "yeah, it's your HG" and fix that because maybe it's really your PHH or the bypass pipe O-rings that failed and leaked out your coolant, then the overheat condition caused the HG.

Since it was running that low for an unknown period of time, you may want to seriously consider changing your water pump when doing this, because the coolant is a lubricant for the WP bushings on most vehicles.

 

[StaticTorque]

Only way to know is to check, really. Depends how bad and how long it's overheated (assuming it did at all), and other factors. If you can confirm the gasket is bad, it's going to get opened up regardless, and those things will be checked by anyone worth trusting to do the job

Since you stated a specific temp of 194, I assume you have a gauge plugged in?

I have an Ultraguage that is basically always in use and always have the temp pulled up. I personally have never seen it read above 212 F, and that was on a 102F degree wheeling out in the dessert.

They rely on fluid contact to give proper readings.

They did mention that because it was so low that the temp I was seeing could have been wrong.

Just a learning point:

When a HG goes or there is an "air pocket" in the cooling system, the temp sending units can actually see low numbers or spike super high. They rely on fluid contact to give proper readings. If there is a pocket of air around them, they may actually drop and show low temps. The other side is sometimes the air pocket will get super heated and cause steam in the air pocket and may cause it to spike, but it will go high, then low in a matter of seconds. (This is more common on other makes than the 1FZ)

The reason your overflow tank level wasn't changing is because there was no vacuum in the radiator to suck or draw fluid to/from the overflow tank because your system is no longer sealed. The system could draw air in from somewhere to equalize pressure.

It could be leaking into a cylinder, have a leaking hose, or a leaking oil cooler, although each will show up with different symptoms. That's why it's so important to PROPERLY diagnose the root cause, rather than just say "yeah, it's your HG" and fix that because maybe it's really your PHH or the bypass pipe O-rings that failed and leaked out your coolant, then the overheat condition caused the HG.

Since it was running that low for an unknown period of time, you may want to seriously consider changing your water pump when doing this, because the coolant is a lubricant for the WP bushings on most vehicles.

Doing a pressure test would kind of tell me if there was coolant leaking into a cylinder because it would have low compression on X cylinder? PHH was done by the PO when he put the new motor in and it was an OEM part, but that's not to say it couldn't fail again. I think something major is my exhaust leak I have. My brother had a feeling I had an exhaust leak, but I never knew because I didn't know what to look for and I wouldn't have know. I know that at that leak, it could be pulling air in from where it's not supposed to.

 

[Fj80oregon]

Is it still blowing lots of smoke after being driven home? How’s it running?

 

[BILT4ME]

I have an Ultraguage that is basically always in use and always have the temp pulled up. I personally have never seen it read above 212 F, and that was on a 102F degree wheeling out in the dessert.

They did mention that because it was so low that the temp I was seeing could have been wrong.

Doing a pressure test would kind of tell me if there was coolant leaking into a cylinder because it would have low compression on X cylinder? PHH was done by the PO when he put the new motor in and it was an OEM part, but that's not to say it couldn't fail again. I think something major is my exhaust leak I have. My brother had a feeling I had an exhaust leak, but I never knew because I didn't know what to look for and I wouldn't have know. I know that at that leak, it could be pulling air in from where it's not supposed to.

You need to do a cylinder compression test to determine if you have a cylinder with low compression. This will point to a failed HG, a cracked head, a broken or bent valve, or broken rings, or a crack in a cylinder wall.

Then do a cylinder leak-down test to determine if you hear air coming into the intake manifold, out the crankcase, or out the cooling system. This will determine where the leak is going to from each individual cylinder. You do the compression test first so you can determine if there is one particular cylinder you need to focus on.

Then do a cooling system pressure test to see if there are any external leaks or if is is pushing coolant into a cylinder. After doing this test you should pull the spark plugs before attempting to start or turn over the engine, as it could force liquid into a cylinder and cause hydrolock, which can bend a rod or crack a head.

There are so many places that don't do a proper diagnosis and they just throw the parts cannon at it until they eventually find the problem. It's rare that even a failed engine cannot be properly diagnosed for cause of failure.

Oh, and an exhaust leak will NOT enter into the cooling system, as the exhaust does not interface with the cooling system other than through the head.

 

[StaticTorque]

Is it still blowing lots of smoke after being driven home? How’s it running?

I had a family member following me home, he said it was smoking pretty bad. Especially when I got on it, and when I had to go up a hill.

You need to do a cylinder compression test to determine if you have a cylinder with low compression. This will point to a failed HG, a cracked head, a broken or bent valve, or broken rings, or a crack in a cylinder wall.

Then do a cylinder leak-down test to determine if you hear air coming into the intake manifold, out the crankcase, or out the cooling system. This will determine where the leak is going to from each individual cylinder. You do the compression test first so you can determine if there is one particular cylinder you need to focus on.

Then do a cooling system pressure test to see if there are any external leaks or if is is pushing coolant into a cylinder. After doing this test you should pull the spark plugs before attempting to start or turn over the engine, as it could force liquid into a cylinder and cause hydrolock, which can bend a rod or crack a head.

There are so many places that don't do a proper diagnosis and they just throw the parts cannon at it until they eventually find the problem. It's rare that even a failed engine cannot be properly diagnosed for cause of failure.

Oh, and an exhaust leak will NOT enter into the cooling system, as the exhaust does not interface with the cooling system other than through the head.

Are these tests hard to do for someone that has not done these before? I absolutely would like to find the root of the problem, as I don't want to go chasing every little thing it could be. Plus I don't want this to happen again so I want to fix the root problem.

I really appreciate everyone's input, thoughts, and opinions on the matter to help with this problem.

 

[BILT4ME]

I had a family member following me home, he said it was smoking pretty bad. Especially when I got on it, and when I had to go up a hill.

Are these tests hard to do for someone that has not done these before? I absolutely would like to find the root of the problem, as I don't want to go chasing every little thing it could be. Plus I don't want this to happen again so I want to fix the root problem.

I really appreciate everyone's input, thoughts, and opinions on the matter to help with this problem.

They are not "hard".

You will need to buy tools. Preferably mid-quality tools or better when talking about gauges. A torque wrench is always a good investment. I buy quality for my precision tools and the basic wrenches and ratchets are all over the place. I never pay full retail and I will buy a Snap On from eBay. The nice part here is you get a quality tool with a lifetime warranty for a fraction of the cost of new. You can take it to a tool truck to have it calibration checked or repaired.

The FSM gives procedures for doing these tests. If you cannot find them, let us know and we will all help.

Read up on it, become a YouTube Certified Mechanic, and you'll get there.

If you decide you want to rebuild an automatic transmission, THAT's hard.

 

[vipergrhd]

So my head gasket blew. I took it to Land Cruiser Northwest to get it looked at because I had a P0306 code and the injector came unplugged. But I had an exhaust leak so I was going to have them fix it. They took a look over it and did some tests and told me the head gasket was blown. They quoted me $8700 to replace the head gasket. They said that’s a best/worse case scenario. DISCLAIMER, they didn’t offer me a warranty on it but I also didn’t ask them if they provided a warranty. I called my local dealership and they quoted me $6500 to do the repair. They said that’s a high quote, and that it mostly likely wouldn’t be much more expensive, just dependent on the machine shop. They also said it comes with a 36k mile warranty or 3 year warranty. Just wondering what everyone thinks as winter is coming and need the rig. TIA!

Did someone say run? Run away fast and never return.

 

[StaticTorque]

They are not "hard".

You will need to buy tools. Preferably mid-quality tools or better when talking about gauges. A torque wrench is always a good investment. I buy quality for my precision tools and the basic wrenches and ratchets are all over the place. I never pay full retail and I will buy a Snap On from eBay. The nice part here is you get a quality tool with a lifetime warranty for a fraction of the cost of new. You can take it to a tool truck to have it calibration checked or repaired.

The FSM gives procedures for doing these tests. If you cannot find them, let us know and we will all help.

Read up on it, become a YouTube Certified Mechanic, and you'll get there.

If you decide you want to rebuild an automatic transmission, THAT's hard.

I have a lot of tools, semi okay tools. Don't have the testing tools. I have a paper FSM and a downloaded FSM on my laptop when doing work on my rig. I never thought about buying Snap On stuff on Ebay then have them check it out. I have a couple torque wrenches. Worried about the trans as it has 309k miles on it...

Read up on it, become a YouTube Certified Mechanic, and you'll get there.

I know you're serious but this was funny and know what you mean.

 

[jpoole]

Is it really necessary to test further if it failed a combustion gas in coolant test? I'm aware that HG failures have a lot of different modes depending on what part of the gasket fails, etc. but once you have exhaust gasses in your coolant it seems like it's time to pull the head and get on with fixing it vs. worrying too much more about diagnosis. A lot more will be learned once the old gasket and surfaces are inspected with the head off but the majority of the time the work involved in getting an otherwise solid running 1FZ going again won't vary that much.

Maybe I missed something but seems like it's time to decide who is doing the work and when it will happen.

 

[StaticTorque]

Is it really necessary to test further if it failed a combustion gas in coolant test? I'm aware that HG failures have a lot of different modes depending on what part of the gasket fails, etc. but once you have exhaust gasses in your coolant it seems like it's time to pull the head and get on with fixing it vs. worrying too much more about diagnosis. A lot more will be learned once the old gasket and surfaces are inspected with the head off but the majority of the time the work involved in getting an otherwise solid running 1FZ going again won't vary that much.

Maybe I missed something but seems like it's time to decide who is doing the work and when it will happen.

You're correct. But I like to just be sure and I like to learn new things so its a good time to do those things. My problem is whether or not that's a good price, and when they can get the rig in. So far I have no luck on getting it done from a shop no earlier than Feb-March.

 

[CJF]

Land Cruisers Northwest has very good reviews and they're local to you. Plus they've been awfully accommodating (letting you come watch them repeat the test, etc). If you're not going to do the work yourself, I say make an appt with them, the sooner the better.