Is this a reasonable price to replace a head gasket? (1 Viewer)

[StaticTorque]

I am sure Beno is talking about doing all the "while you are in there jobs". $10k isn't hard to rack up when you are paying OEM prices and dealership labor rates.

That is true. So do you think the dealership wouldn’t be using genuine OEM parts since it’s much cheaper than a shop?

 

[BILT4ME]

That is true. So do you think the dealership wouldn’t be using genuine OEM parts since it’s much cheaper than a shop?

Most likely the dealership is quoting the bare minimum to replace a head gasket. Then they will come back and advise that you need another $3000 in hoses and other things that were not part of the original quote.

I still question that you even NEED a HG. if this shop has a lot of cruisers in their lot, they know the common pitfalls of them and can upsell the issues all the time and do work that they know everyone will read about. Head Gasket is the biggest issue on the 1FZ. It's an easy sell, especially to the untrained person. How many of those trucks in their yard have "HG Issues"?

You're not losing coolant
You don't have milkshake in the oil or cooling system
It has never actually overheated.
It runs fine now that the injector plug is back on.
It's not blowing maple-syrup smelling smoke continuously (like enveloping the entire truck)
It was blowing "smoke" one day. For what, 15 - 20 minutes? That's condensation.

The tests that they had to have done to determine a HG.
1) Exhaust gases in the cooling system
2) Compression test
3) Cylinder leak down test
4) Cooling system pressure test
5) Engine Oil analysis (Blackstone Lab or equal)
Any (3) of the above would need to be confirmed to be proof positive for HG.

A fool and his money are soon parted. Learn how not to be a fool.

$8700 is enough for a COMPLETE engine rebuild, not just a HG.

I used to work behind the parts counter MANY years ago. I could tell on a particular shop what the "sales strategy of the week" was. One week it was alternators, next it was starters, then it was batteries, then brakes. It was to the point that we would take bets in house on what it would be the next week. Yes, shops do this shyt all the time to unsuspecting and unknowing customers that are at their mercy and don't know any better. Yet, these same customers are recommending them to their friends and coworkers because they "saved" them from some unknown breakdown that was absolutely going to happen......

 

[JoeCova]

HG job shouldn't be much more than $2500 even with OEM parts.

I completely rebuilt my motor replacing everything in the engine bay for $10k, two shops quoted me $15k for complete rebuild.

$8700 is pushing costs of a full engine replacement.

 

[StaticTorque]

Most likely the dealership is quoting the bare minimum to replace a head gasket. Then they will come back and advise that you need another $3000 in hoses and other things that were not part of the original quote.

I still question that you even NEED a HG. if this shop has a lot of cruisers in their lot, they know the common pitfalls of them and can upsell the issues all the time and do work that they know everyone will read about. Head Gasket is the biggest issue on the 1FZ. It's an easy sell, especially to the untrained person. How many of those trucks in their yard have "HG Issues"?

You're not losing coolant
You don't have milkshake in the oil or cooling system
It has never actually overheated.
It runs fine now that the injector plug is back on.
It's not blowing maple-syrup smelling smoke continuously (like enveloping the entire truck)
It was blowing "smoke" one day. For what, 15 - 20 minutes? That's condensation.

The tests that they had to have done to determine a HG.
1) Exhaust gases in the cooling system
2) Compression test
3) Cylinder leak down test
4) Cooling system pressure test
5) Engine Oil analysis (Blackstone Lab or equal)
Any (3) of the above would need to be confirmed to be proof positive for HG.

A fool and his money are soon parted. Learn how not to be a fool.

$8700 is enough for a COMPLETE engine rebuild, not just a HG.

I used to work behind the parts counter MANY years ago. I could tell on a particular shop what the "sales strategy of the week" was. One week it was alternators, next it was starters, then it was batteries, then brakes. It was to the point that we would take bets in house on what it would be the next week. Yes, shops do this shyt all the time to unsuspecting and unknowing customers that are at their mercy and don't know any better. Yet, these same customers are recommending them to their friends and coworkers because they "saved" them from some unknown breakdown that was absolutely going to happen......

That’s what I was afraid of from the dealership, that’s why I wanted to know what exactly they would be “doing” for $6500. The motor is also at about 100k miles, previous owner put a new to it motor in it that had about 75k miles. I’ve read that usually HG start to go at 175k? Today I’m going to talk to the shop and ask them what they did to determine why they said I need a new HG. Always appreciate your input @BILT4ME, think you have replied to everyone of my posts I’ve made here hah.

 

[BILT4ME]

That’s what I was afraid of from the dealership, that’s why I wanted to know what exactly they would be “doing” for $6500. The motor is also at about 100k miles, previous owner put a new to it motor in it that had about 75k miles. I’ve read that usually HG start to go at 175k? Today I’m going to talk to the shop and ask them what they did to determine why they said I need a new HG. Always appreciate your input @BILT4ME, think you have replied to everyone of my posts I’ve made here hah.

The original HG on these would start anywhere from 75K through 350K. Mine happened to be at 145K. If it was ever replaced in its lifetime, no one would know it unless it was documented. Therefore, they can upsell a HG to everyone because very few people keep meticulous records like some of us OCD idiots do here.

 

[StaticTorque]

The original HG on these would start anywhere from 75K through 350K. Mine happened to be at 145K. If it was ever replaced in its lifetime, no one would know it unless it was documented. Therefore, they can upsell a HG to everyone because very few people keep meticulous records like some of us OCD idiots do here.

Absolutely. I know some stuff is confirmed by the PO, and that it actually was a new motor with around that many miles. But he had paperwork for it, couldn’t find some of it in a move. He proved the paperwork he did have. I have a whole spreadsheet of everything that I’ve done to my rig with labels, par numbers, who did the work, where I got the parts, the cost, etc. sounds like I almost need to take the rig home and diagnose it myself…?

 

[jpoole]

unknowing customers that are at their mercy

Not adding much, but I can't help but jump in after @BILT4ME 's good post.

I worked as a mechanic at a dealership (John Deere) 30 years ago and while it was a good place, the pressure to save time and make $$ by throwing parts at a problem was real. There are a lot of factors that push what could be called "wasteful" repair practices and they aren't all motivated by greed. It's safe to say that your interests and any shops will never totally align and that you'll often pay the price when you hand over control to them. It may be worth it to "get the tractor back in the field" so to speak, but make sure you choose this approach because it's best for you.

The HGs in these can last many times more than 100k miles. Failure causes of any HG can vary but a big factor with the 1FZ is how long the gasket surface is and that the head and block are two different metals. Add extreme heat cycling to that long gasket surface and varied expansion/contraction rates and the gasket has a harder life. Keep temps in a closer range and you reduce risk, at least from the source of head/block movement.

sounds like I almost need to take the rig home and diagnose it myself…?

I absolutely would do this if you can. If it's a clear failure it won't be that hard to identify. If it's not a clear failure it's still not that hard and if nothing else you can send oil to blackstone and wait for them to tell you what's up.

Once water starts getting into the combustion chamber(s) it will start to steam clean the spark plugs, etc. Beyond all of the tests listed above you can also learn a lot from plug analysis, if the HG is really on it's way out, etc.

 

[BILT4ME]

Absolutely. I know some stuff is confirmed by the PO, and that it actually was a new motor with around that many miles. But he had paperwork for it, couldn’t find some of it in a move. He proved the paperwork he did have. I have a whole spreadsheet of everything that I’ve done to my rig with labels, par numbers, who did the work, where I got the parts, the cost, etc. sounds like I almost need to take the rig home and diagnose it myself…?

If you even remotely have the desire, you can learn the ability. For a fraction of that cost you can buy quality tools so you can do more in the future.

I have taught many how to do their own work when they have never done anything like it.

 

[StaticTorque]

"get the tractor back in the field"

I think I laughed way to hard at this…

Not adding much, but I can't help but jump in after @BILT4ME 's good post.

I worked as a mechanic at a dealership (John Deere) 30 years ago and while it was a good place, the pressure to save time and make $$ by throwing parts at a problem was real. There are a lot of factors that push what could be called "wasteful" repair practices and they aren't all motivated by greed. It's safe to say that your interests and any shops will never totally align and that you'll often pay the price when you hand over control to them. It may be worth it to "get the tractor back in the field" so to speak, but make sure you choose this approach because it's best for you.

The HGs in these can last many times more than 100k miles. Failure causes of any HG can vary but a big factor with the 1FZ is how long the gasket surface is and that the head and block are two different metals. Add extreme heat cycling to that long gasket surface and varied expansion/contraction rates and the gasket has a harder life. Keep temps in a closer range and you reduce risk, at least from the source of head/block movement.



I absolutely would do this if you can. If it's a clear failure it won't be that hard to identify. If it's not a clear failure it's still not that hard and if nothing else you can send oil to blackstone and wait for them to tell you what's up.

Once water starts getting into the combustion chamber(s) it will start to steam clean the spark plugs, etc. Beyond all of the tests listed above you can also learn a lot from plug analysis, if the HG is really on its way out, etc.

I think I need to get out of my head that “this a very reputable shop” and look at it as they’re just another shop, and they’re trying to make a living. I feel I’m putting too much honestly towards them. After what everyone is saying and what I have told everyone about what the rigs has been doing and acting, I feel as they may be selling it to me. When I originally took it there, I had expressed I was worried it could be a bad HG, then the next day, they call and say it also has a bad HG. The only thing I could see that would cause this, is the really bad exhaust leak from the Y pipe to the manifold.

If you even remotely have the desire, you can learn the ability. For a fraction of that cost you can buy quality tools so you can do more in the future.

I have taught many how to do their own work when they have never done anything like it.

Oh absolutely, say it really does have a bad HG and this was the beginning of summer, I would absolutely 100% be trying to do it myself. I may not have done a leak down test before or others, but I know family who has, and could help.

 

[Malleus]

I wish I could add something more useful to you, but I can't (other than my obvious poke at you, which you understood was in jest ). Everyone who posted here has given you the best advice. I would only add that it's only squeaky wheels that get grease, and you'll likely as not never hear from people who have 300k+ miles on their trucks and haven't replaced headgaskets.

The take away here is that everyone wants to assure you it's in your best interest to validate the need for work and money to do that work, before you commit to it.

 

[SNLC]

I completely rebuilt my motor replacing everything in the engine bay for $10k, two shops quoted me $15k for complete rebuild.

I don't believe you, not with OEM parts anyways.

Cheers

 

[SNLC]

I think I laughed way to hard at this…

I think I need to get out of my head that “this a very reputable shop” and look at it as they’re just another shop, and they’re trying to make a living. I feel I’m putting too much honestly towards them. After what everyone is saying and what I have told everyone about what the rigs has been doing and acting, I feel as they may be selling it to me. When I originally took it there, I had expressed I was worried it could be a bad HG, then the next day, they call and say it also has a bad HG. The only thing I could see that would cause this, is the really bad exhaust leak from the Y pipe to the manifold.

Oh absolutely, say it really does have a bad HG and this was the beginning of summer, I would absolutely 100% be trying to do it myself. I may not have done a leak down test before or others, but I know family who has, and could help.

I am not saying you have a bad HG, it is a good idea to get second and even third opinions.

I can tell you every time we do a full rebuild, if we skip any items such as VSV or Cats or charcoal canister, even if they test good at time of rebuild, it comes back to bite us in the ass every time. Due to this we will no longer do a "complete" rebuild without replacing ALL the 25-30yr old parts.

Cheers

 

[JoeCova]

I don't believe you, not with OEM parts anyways.

Cheers

What would you like to know? Would you like receipts? Would you like pictures?

 

[AgentOrange]

What would you like to know? Would you like receipts? Would you like pictures?

If I remember right, wasn't that with a factory block as well?? I remember seeing the price and thinking I should just do that

 

[JoeCova]

If I remember right, wasn't that with a factory block as well?? I remember seeing the price and thinking I should just do that

I paid like $3500 for the factory shortblock (The dealer really saved me on this one), $745 for valve and head work, 255 alternator, 231, starter, 407 for PS pump, etc. It definitely all adds up but after the head and shortblock its kind of just all little things after that. I'll take a look today and try to add up everything.

 

[StaticTorque]

I paid like $3500 for the factory shortblock (The dealer really saved me on this one), $745 for valve and head work, 255 alternator, 231, starter, 407 for PS pump, etc. It definitely all adds up but after the head and shortblock its kind of just all little things after that. I'll take a look today and try to add up everything.

I would be curious to hear the outcome…

 

[JoeCova]

I would be curious to hear the outcome…

So I pulled the receipts and orders, and final was $10,532.

This include things that I chose to replace like the Pipe Sub Assembly (87208-60161 - $219) for a 95+ on my 94 because I removed the PAIR valve and another $490 (apparently it's $200 now) for an oil level sensor that somehow broke after disassembly.

With that said, I'm sure there are some small items I may have missed or didnt save a reciept. As an example I completely wrapped my wiring harness in tessa tape and some thermal tape around the EGR, thats a cost but not something I tracked.

Something to consider is there are a lot of OEM parts and things floating around for cheaper on eBay and other places, I ordered everything through my local dealer so I could have come in likely a couple thousand less.

No I have rebuilt lots though and have a bunch of estimates and invoices for that work in my business software.

Since I do it for a living, oh never mind.

Cheers

OK....If I had a dollar for every time someone told me how much they know about something.

Proffits quoted me $15k using a Jarco rebuilt motor and putting a lot of old back
Classic Cruisers quoted me $15k to rebuild the motor
Red Line Quoted $35k for a rebuild <-- I'm sure they have a bunch of estimates and invoices in their business software as well to justify this.. LOL

None of these shops would have replaced all of the things that I have (within their quotes)

 

[BILT4ME]

So I pulled the receipts and orders, and final was $10,532.

This include things that I chose to replace like the Pipe Sub Assembly (87208-60161 - $219) for a 95+ on my 94 because I removed the PAIR valve and another $490 (apparently it's $200 now) for an oil level sensor that somehow broke after disassembly.

With that said, I'm sure there are some small items I may have missed or didnt save a reciept. As an example I completely wrapped my wiring harness in tessa tape and some thermal tape around the EGR, thats a cost but not something I tracked.

Something to consider is there are a lot of OEM parts and things floating around for cheaper on eBay and other places, I ordered everything through my local dealer so I could have come in likely a couple thousand less.



OK....If I had a dollar for every time someone told me how much they know about something.

Proffits quoted me $15k using a Jarco rebuilt motor and putting a lot of old back
Classic Cruisers quoted me $15k to rebuild the motor
Red Line Quoted $35k for a rebuild <-- I'm sure they have a bunch of estimates and invoices in their business software as well to justify this.. LOL

None of these shops would have replaced all of the things that I have (within their quotes)

Your $10K does not include labor, correct? Your own labor was "free"?

 

[JoeCova]

Your $10K does not include labor, correct? Your own labor was "free"?

Correct.

Based on Profitts and Classic's quotes their labor was about $5k. Looking at the Classic's quote their's was $4200 labor

 

[BILT4ME]

Correct.

Based on Profitts and Classic's quotes their labor was $5k

I have typically found that labor is about 1.5X to 2X the cost of the parts if buying out. That would place your labor around $10,500 to $20,000, for a grand total of $20,500 to $30K.

So, we are not comparing apples to pomegranates.