Is it possible to do a $0 2F--3B swap in a 40? Follow along and see! (1 Viewer)

MrMoMo

That's not rust, it's Canadian patina...
Joined
Nov 11, 2005
Messages
2,445
Location
~Kingston, ON, pero soñando de Panamá
Ok, so don't let the title be completely misleading... I already own the FJ40, and the BJ60 that everything will be coming out of. I'm not counting the cost of electricity, welding wire, or amortizing the cost of my shop, or paying myself...

*Edit*. This swap has also morphed into a frame off resto... In the spirit of the title, I will keep the costs associated with the swap tracked separately! **

Now, let me also say, that I won't sacrifice something just to say "I did it for free". What I am hoping for is $0 out of pocket to do the swap, I will however do some other stuff at the same time to improve the condition of the 40. I will try to make what I can from what I have, and if I need to buy something to make it work, then that's what happens.

This is the start. My insurance Co. has given the green light, so I can now proceed. Come along for the ride, I'm no expert, there are sure to be a few good laughs along the way...

Will try to keep a running total here, for anyone who wants to reference this, if they feel they would want to tackle a similar project.

The main goal: Have a 3B powered 40.
The short term side goal: blast and paint the frame while I'm in there.
The long term side goal: repair all body damage/rust on the body.
The timeline? Well, let's just say the sooner the better...

The money side thus far; *(swap related)*
$0. 1977 FJ40 (Dec 76)
$0. 1984 BJ60, turbo'd, intercooled, and veggied
$90 New 3B Frame mounts from @Awl_TEQ
$33 New transmission mount from Rock Auto
$10 Old stock (from work) fuel level sender for the veggie tank.

Conversion total $123

The resto costs thus far (including shipping);
$870 - New fenders, quarters & bolt kit, seam sealer from CCOT.
$89 - New body mount kit from Auto Parts Warehouse.
$81 - White monstaliner kit for roof from Magnet Paints.
$44 - New suspension bushings from aftermarketsuspensionparts.com
$150 - Chassis saver and S8 reducer from Magnet Paints
$115 - New rear frame sections - EBay.
$100 - Used rear frame cross section, corner frames, gussets and spring mount. (Fellow Mudder)
$64 - Replacement DS floor panel from Rock Auto.
$55 - Misc parts from Cruiser corps, gaskets, seals etc.
$70 - New aftermarket tail lights from SOR.
$30 - rear frame section sand blasted - local contractor
$200 - frame pickled and galvanized - local contractor
$9 - cold galvanizing for touch ups. - Lowes
$67 - greaseable suspension pin (frame end) from Cruiser Corps.
$30 - metal to re-create rear sill center section.
$51 - 2 new rear corner channels and new upper and lower amby door strikers -CCOT

Resto total = $2026


The progress side thus far;

-Couldn't get the 40 to start, so cranking it out of the woods on the starter... It's a multi-day process...
--> https://forum.ih8mud.com/threads/77-fj40-no-start-troubleshooting-help.807150/#post-9214112
-40 body is off the frame
-2F engine is out
-New fenders and quarters arrived.
-New (used) rear frame cross member section received, repaired and blasted.
-New rear frame sections received and welded on
-Chassis saver paint arrived
-White monstaliner for roof arrived
-Many misc parts (restoration - not swap related) have arrived!
-40 chassis rear end rust repairs are almost completed.
-New drivers side floor pan arrived.
-New Motor mounts arrived from Awl_Teq
-Body has been test fit with engine/trans in place.
-Mounts for veggie tank have been welded to the rear shock cross tube
-Aluminum veggie tank is almost completed.
-Trans crossmember mounts from BJ60 are welded in place
-Engine mounts are welded in place.
-Old 2F is gone, straight traded for a rough '78 FJ45 with driveline.
-60 is fully stripped and the scrap has gone to the scrap yard.
-Frame is back from galvanizing! Needs some clean up and touch up.
-Suspension is re-attached (minus shocks) with new bushings
-Body is temporarily on the frame for disassembly and bracing.
-Roof, side panels, doors and windshield frame are off the tub.
-Bed rot removed from the back edge, replaced with fresh steel
-Rear sill center section has been re-created...
-Rear quarter panels are off, rear corner channels are off
-Firewall is stripped
-Drivers side floor panel and inner rocker are cut and replaced
-Drivers side forward frame mount cut and repaired
-Drivers side floor at heel cut and replaced, along with A pillar base
-Front side of both driver and passenger wheel well cut and replaced
-Rear sill horns fabricated and installed
-Passenger side quarter panel is in place!






 
Last edited:

MrMoMo

That's not rust, it's Canadian patina...
Joined
Nov 11, 2005
Messages
2,445
Location
~Kingston, ON, pero soñando de Panamá
Driving out of the woods in 4lo on the starter, lots of rests to let the starter cool. Connected the second battery in parallel and had the charger on boost. About half way out today.

image.jpg
 

TCSTARK

Master Debater & Cunning Linguist
SILVER Star
Joined
Jun 20, 2010
Messages
4,353
Location
Cumming, GA
Subscribed.. I am curios to see how you wire up the 40. Will you be merging the two harnesses together?
 

MrMoMo

That's not rust, it's Canadian patina...
Joined
Nov 11, 2005
Messages
2,445
Location
~Kingston, ON, pero soñando de Panamá
Yup, that's the plan - though still debating in my head whether or not to take all the EDIC stuff over to the 40. I like the idea of simplicity of a push/pull cable, but I also like the way the EDIC works everything automatically, especially for things like the low oil pressure shut down, which has saved me in the past...
 

MrMoMo

That's not rust, it's Canadian patina...
Joined
Nov 11, 2005
Messages
2,445
Location
~Kingston, ON, pero soñando de Panamá
Why wouldn't you just tow the 40 out, why wreck a starter motor?o_O
Doesn't wreck the starter motor, it's designed to do that, as long as it's not for extended periods.

If I could easily tow it out I would, but there are many corners to get around, I have to back it past/between/around a BJ60 and a 20' shipping container, then towards a ditch, with an embankment on the other side, then around a 90 degree corner. Once I get it there (almost there now) I will have straight forward access to pull it out the rest of the way. What I have done thus far has been mostly a gentle downhill (not enough to roll on its own though)
 
Last edited:
Joined
Apr 21, 2005
Messages
19,632
Funny I have never read that the starter was designed to move the vehicle. Did this once in Nov. 75 when my FJ40 died in a intersection at night. Ended up have the starter rebuilt shortly after that. I use a come-a-long and 2" ratchet straps if I can tow it. I can turn sharper than the steering using the stock jack simply by just pushing it over in the direction I want to turn.
 

FJ40Jim

The Cruiser Whisperer
SILVER Star
Joined
Sep 26, 2003
Messages
11,034
Location
Lancaster, Ohio, USA
Using the starter motor for motive power is greatly eased by removing the plugs and cutting off all accessory belts. I do it occasionally with parts trucks/engines/starters that have a bleak future anyway.
 

MrMoMo

That's not rust, it's Canadian patina...
Joined
Nov 11, 2005
Messages
2,445
Location
~Kingston, ON, pero soñando de Panamá
At the risk of turning this thread into one about electricity and starters..... (Stand by for temporary thread de-railment)

Ok, I swear I read about "emergency starter moving" in the truck manual, but can't for the life of me find the reference for it. There are plenty of online sources that state to do this in an emergency such as stuck on train tracks etc, but you know what they say about stuff you read online...

So, I decided to see for myself what the real story is.

Tonight I had the last little bit to move the truck. I decided to take some measurements while doing it so I could at least have some tech info on page one of this thread... :cD

Steps I followed;

1) Engage 4Lo
2) Remove spark plugs
3) * optional * connect 2nd battery in parallel for more juice (amps, not volts)
4) Engage 1st or Reverse
5) Turn key, max 8-10 seconds
6) Wait 5 minutes to allow for cooling and repeat from step 4

Now, for the numbers...

I placed my Amp clamp on the starter cable, and measured the amp draw of the starter cranking over, in first gear, going UP the hill. Max amp draw was 219.9Amps

image.jpg


Here is the hill, not huge, but not small either...

image.jpg


Then, for reference I put all the plugs back in, pushed the clutch in, and measured the amp draw of the starter...

image.jpg


So, a difference of less than 10Amps, between cranking normally, and using the starter to crank the truck up a hill. This is less than 5% difference.

My conclusion: (take it for what it's worth)

As long as you don't crank for extended periods, allow the starter to cool sufficiently, take the plugs out, and use 4Lo... This should have almost no different negative effects than starting your truck, the every day way...

I suspect that those who have experienced damage cranked for extended periods - heat is the enemy here, and a few hundred amps for more than a very short period of time generates excessive heat, which melts stuff....

Project update: well, it's closer to the shop!

And now back to your regularly scheduled thread!
 

MrMoMo

That's not rust, it's Canadian patina...
Joined
Nov 11, 2005
Messages
2,445
Location
~Kingston, ON, pero soñando de Panamá
Pressure washed underneath, degreased, and backed into the shop! Ready to start coming apart.

For comparisons sake, I clamped the starter while cranking on flat ground and it was only 160A Max.

image.jpg
 

MrMoMo

That's not rust, it's Canadian patina...
Joined
Nov 11, 2005
Messages
2,445
Location
~Kingston, ON, pero soñando de Panamá
Ok, so tonight I got totally off track... Nothing to do with the diesel swap, but hey... Decided to pull the aluminum off the rear quarters, as I said I would do all those years ago when I bought it.... "It'll be all rusted out" said everyone...

Well, it's not perfect, but it's not all rusted out either. But, as the slippery slope approaches, new fenders and quarters are now on order... (So now I have a few weeks to do the engine swap before they arrive!)

Glue was pretty damn strong and pulled the paint off the primer!

image.jpg


image.jpg
 

MrMoMo

That's not rust, it's Canadian patina...
Joined
Nov 11, 2005
Messages
2,445
Location
~Kingston, ON, pero soñando de Panamá
Haha, no worries, no need to hide in a corner either ;cD

Made some progress today, lots of snapped bolts and periods of deep thought. Currently being defeated by a bolt that has rounded, and my extraction socket can't even grip it. Man does salt ever eat away at the bolt heads, I swear some of them go from 10mm down to 8.5mm! I think my choices are down to grinding the head off or welding a nut to it. It is of course the hardest one to reach, behind the steering rod and recessed so I can't get vice grips on it.

Wiring is all disconnected in the front, just have 6 bolts left on the PS fender, and 2 (one persnickety one) on the DS fender. Once they are off I'll start to take some key measurements to have things line up when the new power plant hangs in place...


image.jpg
 
Joined
May 2, 2011
Messages
2,996
Location
Paradise
I'm one step ahead of you on the diesel swap my old 2f got pulled yesterday and the 6 cylinder h engine is patiently waiting in the shed.

iphone5 002.JPG
 

TCSTARK

Master Debater & Cunning Linguist
SILVER Star
Joined
Jun 20, 2010
Messages
4,353
Location
Cumming, GA
Ozcruiser - how are you going to tackle the wiring up of the diesel?
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Top Bottom