'77 FJ40 no start troubleshooting - help!

[MrMoMo]

Ok, I'll admit, it's been sitting for far too long. Time to get it out again and enjoy it thought I...

Last night;
Charged up the battery
Pulled the plugs and squirted a little oil in each cylinder.
Bled the clutch slave (leaks down a little - it's on the do list).

Tried to remember the secret start sequence for the 2F, at 25*C... Choke, pump, floor it crank...

Now, last time it sat like this I charged the battery and cranked and it fired right up. I guess I got lucky.

Crankity crank, nothing. No pu-puh-pop.. Nada. Got out and could smell gas, so quite possible I flooded it with the incorrect combination of the secret start sequence... Let it sit for a bit and tried a few more goes before the battery got too low and the Mosquitos got too thick.

Tonight;
Decided to check a few more of the basics before I drained the whole battery down.

Carb sight glass is half full
Fuel filter has fuel, and can see it pulsing when I crank
Pulled #1 plug, grounded it. Cranked from the starter (with ignition on) no spark.
Checked the coil voltage, 12V both sides
Checked the coil resistor, seems legit.
Grounded the (-) side of the coil, it sparks
Have 12V on the distributor feed wire
Popped the distributor cap off, everything is clean but I did a few quick passes on the rotor with a wire brush
Saw some weak spark...
Pulled the wire from the distributor and plugged directly into the coil, got a few more sparks, but still what I would consider weak.
Put the coil wire back to the distributor, and the plug wire back, put the plug back in, put the wire back on.

Cranked it over, nothing. Not even a pop.

Got the brilliant idea (I thought) to get my timing light out and see if it could pick up on the spark signals. It can, but they don't seem to be consistent. Plug wires are in great shape, distributor cap and rotor are as well - I replaced them, probably within the last 5,000 miles, though it has been a few years. Plugs are all clean and looking as I would expect them to.

Truck was driven to where it currently sits, an nothing has been removed or adjusted...

So... Where is the weak link? Is there a more definitive test for the coil? What should the resistance be? If I recall it was under 2ohms. What is the resistance of the resistor supposed to be?

I'm hoping to be swapping my 3B into the 40 so I would rather not put much, if anything ($) into getting the 2F going... Just 1000 times easier to drive it from where it is, than tug it... (And would like to take it for one last boot before surgery (if things go that way)

Oh @Pin_Head save me now, ih8sparkignition!!

 

[MrMoMo]

I'm a little suspect of these connections... But voltage at the coil seems fine...

Also not sure as these were not connected before, but seems that the ring connector should be connected to something... (?)

And just so you know it's not the problem, yes the Bezel is on the right way up

 

[BigMyke]

That is a grounding terminal it sounds like you have lost your ground for your ignition sys

 

[MrMoMo]

So... Should that be on the negative side of the coil? There is already a wire there, and nothing is loose... (?)

 

[sggoat]

Grounds are usually White w/black stripe. I see black w/white stripe--and seems to be connected to a black w/yellow stripe-this is usu going to the starter-some of these may help--aside from the wire color--it does look like a ground connection--

 

[MrMoMo]

Sweet - thanks! Will check those values tomorrow. The other wire in the bundle with that ring terminal goes to the coil negative...

Also, the diagram you linked shows 3 wires to the starter, main positive, key trigger, and coil wire... I only have two... No 3rd wire running to the coil... Is there supposed to be a spade connector, or stud for this?

 

[BigMyke]

The power for the coil is usually pulled from the ign switch turn the it switch to start and check volts at coil and ballast also lube the points mech in the distr for correct movement

 

[MrMoMo]

Ok, coil voltage measures 12V both sides.
Coil resistance across the coil, and from the center to outside is within range.
Resistor is within range.
Touch ground to the negative side of the coil and it sparks.
Tried connecting the black/white wire to the + side of the coil, no change
Opened up the distributor and checked movement of the points, seems fine.
Cleaned the points
Cleaned the rotor

Absolutely no change, nada, nothing zip. Actually, it seems to be worse as now I seem to have no spark.

Is there a test for the igniter? That seems to be the only thing left I can think of... Any other thoughts or suggestions?

 

[MrMoMo]

Ok, also just tried bypassing the resistor, no luck.

 

[cruisernerd]

Replace Cap and rotor, and clean all electrical connects.

 

[sggoat]

Sweet - thanks! Will check those values tomorrow. The other wire in the bundle with that ring terminal goes to the coil negative...

Also, the diagram you linked shows 3 wires to the starter, main positive, key trigger, and coil wire... I only have two... No 3rd wire running to the coil... Is there supposed to be a spade connector, or stud for this?

That depends on whether you have a gear reduction starter or not. The GR starter does not use the wire from the coil that comes from the ig - that boosts("kicks it up a notch", as Emeril would say) the starter up to 12 v, rather than the nominal 9v or so coming from the resistor. In any event, the wiring should still be there--the boost wire(blk w/wht stripe) , I think, is a 16 ga. wire, and the main blk/wht stripe wire is 14 ga. The smaller wire is not used on the GR starter---whew! I think I have all this right.--Check w Orangefj45--he knows the wiring in his sleep.

Went back to original post---seems like the wiring couldn't have changed itself--forgot "Claudia's Admonition"--"It's a ground issue", now that can change-- make sure to check all the grounds --

 

[Pin_Head]

When the points are closed, the voltage on the - side of the coil should be 0. If i is not 0, then the points or ignitor are bad or the distributor case is not grounded properly.

The black wire with the white stripe ( it should be yellow sripe, but maybe it has faded) connects to the + side of the coil. It is the ballast resistor bypass wire and it boosts the voltage at the coil during engine cranking, which is an important feaure.

I don't see the ignitor in your pictures. It should connect to the ballast resistor where the black/yellow stripe wire connects.

 

[cruisernewf]

MrMoMo, I to don't see an igniter in your picture so I should ask if you have a condensor attached (I believe) to the side of the distributor.? If it comes loose or is not properly grounded, the system will not function properly.

 

[MrMoMo]

Hate to leave a thread hanging, but ultimately I got the truck moved without needing to resolve the ignition problem. With the engine being pulled out, it's not worth my time at this point to troubleshoot this any further.... Thanks for the assistance thus far, I may pick this up later when the engine is out of the truck...