Ideas for improving the 2LTE

[GTSSportCoupe]

Appreciate the insight, i'll have to pickup another compression tester and hope for the best.

This has urged me to look more in depth into the cooling system, i thought i could get away with it for a couple more months due to the lower winter temperatures, but im quickly nothing can stop the 2lte's doing what they do best. Might just start a build thread at this point, more so for my own sake of documenting what i do, and for others to give me input, instead of spamming this thread with every problem i have.

EDIT: From what i glean, if either the head or gasket are already gone, nothing else can really hurt me short of a tow home, and I don't plan on any road trips in the near future. So i think my current plan is to overhaul the cooling system, and keep a close eye on everything, and get some proper working gauges asap.

Have a happy new year!

If the cylinder head that was put on it was a genuine Toyota one and the job was done by a reputable shop, I'd be inclined to think your cylinder head is fine. If the job was done poorly and rushed, there is definitely a chance of head gasket issues, although a 'blow-out' is unlikely, as these are multi-layer steel.

My 2LTE's head gasket was leaking when I first bought my truck. But it never got worse. Just let gasses by when running under high load. I had assumed it was a cracked head, so bought a new head and all the bits, only to find out it was just shoddy workmanship by whomever had replaced the cylinder head. It's been 100,000kms of abuse on my new head since, and I've had no issues. I abuse mine harder than anyone else I know.

So I think your decision to service your cooling system and see how things go is a good decision. Don't spend money on a new cylinder head until you know for sure (visual) that it is the actual problem.

A fresh rad cap is a no brainer. Bad rad caps can cause all sorts of problems. I think these rad caps cross over to the late model 60 series... (HJ60 say), and other Toyota models.

A fresh OEM t-stat is another no brainer. Rocky Mountain Imports carries the 82C Toyota OEM one. They're awesome. They start opening at 82C by the way. Fully open at 90C or so I think?

After loosing coolant, its normal for bubbles to come out into the resevoir for a few days as the air works its way out. However after a bunch of cycling (a week of daily driving say), there should be no more bubbles. If there really is a problem with the head, bubbles will come out worst when motor is (or has recently been) under high load for a long period. So a good test is find a long steep highway grade and push up as hard as you can. Stop at the top to pop the hood (leave engine running!). Very carefully (so as not to burn yourself) inspect the overflow tank. Pull the lid just enough that hose stays in the coolant. Use a flash light to peek in and look for bubbles. If you have an idle-up control in the LN130, keep the engine running around 2000rpm while you do this. If you see bubbles, you may indeed have a cylinder head or gasket issue of some type.

Only other thing, is look for coolant leaks. Where coolant leaks out, air can be drawn back in as the system cools. This can be a cause of never ending coolant loss, and bubbles coming out in the reservoir. Replace any suspect clamps in the system. Even the little hose that runs from rad cap to over flow. Air can get drawn into that even. A bad rad cap will let air in too.

Good luck!

 

[Jemjem787]

I appreciate the response GTS. as well as the others who have helped me. Currently starting my 4th year term in electrical school so i won't have a whole lot of time to work on it in the near future, but when i do, I plan on making a detailed build thread to help out other surf/2lte owners in their upgrades.

Looking back, i may have over reacted to an over heating situation thinking it was a head/gasket issue, but it's looking like there is still a small possibility. Knowing what i know now, if it ever happens again i could fill it back up with water and taken the backroads home with a keen eye on the pyro, rather than a tow. I've gotten quotes for heads (Just so i know what to expect) from JDM parts (Based on your previous dealings with them), Rocky Mountain, and i semi-frequently see Steve from EBI and will talk to him. I also have a friend with a 2.8 for sale, could scoop it up for under 2k, which might even be a good alternative for a swap.

Just flushed out the cooling system and got my radiator flow-tested a couple hours ago, and apparently it's already been rebuilt (Rad shop noticed signs of a rebuild), with a japanese tag on it that i missed with the last rebuild date, so it was an unexpected surprise that i can allocate my budget on other things.

Already had a high-flow thermostat from RADD, but due to an unfortunate welding accident (I was playing "engineer") I had to order another one. Rocky only has 88's in stock and was trying to sell me one, but i decided to just get another 82c through RADD. It looks like a common mod is drilling a hole in the stock thermos, however I've seen a couple posts stating it's not necessary with the 82c ones. Gonna run it without a hole for now and if i get more problems ill drill it.

A new rad cap is in the mail from rocky, along with an autometer pyro (Rocky recommended i mount it in the EGT blocking plate rather than the manifold, as it runs the risk of cracking, will look into this further). Going to get a RAM type snorkel, as well as taking apart my intake manifold and cleaning the crud the EGR left in it's place, as when i deleted it i didn't open it up. Cranking up the boost to 11-14psi along with a 2.5" exhaust. (Might build myself if i can find parts). Gonna service the fan clutch as well. The AC radiator is sitting directly in front and covers the entire rad, and since my AC hasn't ever worked I'm deleting this as well which should increase air flow.

Whats nice about the JDM surfs (Compared to the aus surfs) is they had the optional 'winter package' dual battery setup (I'm told this wasn't offered in australia), and have different air-intake systems as a result. So if you choose to run a single higher powered battery instead, it leaves you tons of room for something like an air-water intercooler. I've posted my engine bay on the left, with the aus one (from an LN106 with a 2.8) on the right.

 

[IanB]

I see you're planning on deleting your AC components, but I was going to suggest washing all the crud out of the various heat exchanger cores that air has to pass through on the way too/from your rad, it's crazy how restricted they can become with dirt buildup. Trans coolers, AC condensers, the rad itself, etc. Good idea to rebuild the fan clutch as well, do you know what cst oil you'll use?

 

[Jemjem787]

I see you're planning on deleting your AC components, but I was going to suggest washing all the crud out of the various heat exchanger cores that air has to pass through on the way too/from your rad, it's crazy how restricted they can become with dirt buildup. Trans coolers, AC condensers, the rad itself, etc. Good idea to rebuild the fan clutch as well, do you know what cst oil you'll use?

Based on what i've read on the various write-ups, im going to pickup some 7000 cst from the local RC shop in my town (As its used in rc car applications), and put in 40ml. The discussions are regarding landcruiser clutches and not hilux ones, and we don't get your fancy painted black/blue clutches. If the pics line up and it appears to be the same sized clutch then ill rattlecan some blue paint on it and join the club.

Regarding your comments about the A/C, i don't know enough about how the system works and why cleaning out the interior of it would improve my egt's, rather than deleting it. Looks like i got more reading too do.

Here are a couple threads where i've found clutch troubleshooting discussions, for any other lurkers planning to do the same. It seems like a common thing to neglect, and is often diagnosed to be a bad radiator. So when they rebuild or get a brand new rad it boost it enough that they think the problem is fixed, when it isn't. I quickly realized that my clutch was bad when my fan didn't free wheel at all, or make any noise. regardless if the engine was hot or cold.

If any of you have been around 2nd gen tacoma's, their fans make an insane amount of noise. A while back i was getting picked up from my place of residence early morning by a 2nd gen taco, and the other residents of my place were commonly woken up due to the sheer amount of noise they make. In comparison, i never got a complaint about my straightpiped stock exhaust.

Fan Clutch Service

Servicing the fan clutch seems to be nothing new for many. I picked up the idea after LandTank wrote up how to adjust the temperature for an 80series LC fan clutch (this is NOT possible on a Truck/22RE fan clutch). The fan clutch problem steems from shearing the fluid over time, even just a...

forum.ih8mud.com

Blue fan clutch mod...Thread has gone to hell, read at your own risk

History: On my first drive this summer after replacing my transmission I was having an overheat condition with the truck. On the following weekend while towing a camper it was real severe in the 230* range. After returning I was able to confirm that my Blue hubbed fan clutch was to blame...

forum.ih8mud.com

fan clutch mod

forum.ih8mud.com

How to service your tired FZJ80 fan clutch.

Tools that are required for the job. 12mm wrench. I used a 12 point but read that a 6 point will reduce your chances of rounding the nuts. Vice Grips. These are for when you round the nuts. 10 and 12mm ratchet sockets. T25 star driver. Can of man. The first thing that you will want to do...

expeditionportal.com

TLC Fan Clutch Rebuild

 

[IanB]

Regarding your comments about the A/C, i don't know enough about how the system works and why cleaning out the interior of it would improve my egt's, rather than deleting it. Looks like i got more reading too do.

To clarify, I was saying you should clean out all those components in front of the rad so the air can flow through better, but if you're deleting the AC condenser then you wouldn't need to clean that out, lol. The others and the rad should be cleaned out though, and it sounds like you've already had your rad at a shop where this would have been done.

 

[Jemjem787]

Managed to find some time to work on the vehicle. Couple things I've found that I'll note.

The fan clutch on the Surf 2LTE's is different than the landcruiser 2lte clutches. I'm using the blue fan clutch mod images as a reference, the way how some of the internals are setup are different, so i was unable to do the mod according to that thread. This makes me think that the oil capacity and viscosity that was discussed could also be different, i put in 40ML of 7000CST so if it turns out its too much/little I'll report back my findings for future surf owners. It also appears to be a "light blue" hub, which i haven't seen any mention of on the forums.

Wanted to properly clean the intake out, as i didn't when i blanked off the EGR. I under estimated the amount of gunk that was in it.

Post catch-can installation there was still oil between the turbo-intake section, so i pulled the trigger and ordered a new turbo cartridge. Listing says it's for the 2L-T, however I've confirmed with people who've bought the same listing that it fits the 2LTE's as well, I'll find out tomorrow when i rebuild it.

When i pulled my turbo, i also dropped the exhaust to reach around to the exhaust manifold's EGR pipe, and removed it. Going to fab up a blanking plate tomorrow and tap a hole into it for my EGT Gauge. A local shop Rocky Mountain Imports recommended against tapping it directly into the manifold, as it increases the chances of it cracking (Yet to hear of this happening to anyone though).

I've got one question for the masses regarding thermostat installation, and the location of the jiggle valve (positioned up or down). I'm told by quite a few people that it should be at the 12 o-clock position to let air bubbles out, however there seems to be a common theme on the internet saying placing it at the 6 o-clock position lowers overall engine temperature by around 10 degrees F. I've seen cut out's from manuals that say that 12 is the right location, and others that say 6. There are a few threads One Two that state 12 is the correct position, but some others One Two have people stating that the 6 o clock position resulted in lower temps. I'm going to install mine at 12, but this might be something to look into to further help the cooling with these engines. When get around to tapping an aftermarket gauge into my t-stat housing i'll do some comparison.

 

[John in Utah]

Managed to find some time to work on the vehicle. Couple things I've found that I'll note.

The fan clutch on the Surf 2LTE's is different than the landcruiser 2lte clutches. I'm using the blue fan clutch mod images as a reference, the way how some of the internals are setup are different, so i was unable to do the mod according to that thread. This makes me think that the oil capacity and viscosity that was discussed could also be different, i put in 40ML of 7000CST so if it turns out its too much/little I'll report back my findings for future surf owners. It also appears to be a "light blue" hub, which i haven't seen any mention of on the forums.

View attachment 2555601View attachment 2555603

The hilux and surf fan clutch (and fan) are indeed different from cruiser models with the same engine. I tried a few different combinations and have been really happy with a 3.0 V6 4Runner fan clutch and a 5LE Hilux 10 blade fan (16361-54131)

When i pulled my turbo, i also dropped the exhaust to reach around to the exhaust manifold's EGR pipe, and removed it. Going to fab up a blanking plate tomorrow and tap a hole into it for my EGT Gauge. A local shop Rocky Mountain Imports recommended against tapping it directly into the manifold, as it increases the chances of it cracking (Yet to hear of this happening to anyone though).

I've got one question for the masses regarding thermostat installation, and the location of the jiggle valve (positioned up or down). I'm told by quite a few people that it should be at the 12 o-clock position to let air bubbles out, however there seems to be a common theme on the internet saying placing it at the 6 o-clock position lowers overall engine temperature by around 10 degrees F. I've seen cut out's from manuals that say that 12 is the right location, and others that say 6. There are a few threads One Two that state 12 is the correct position, but some others One Two have people stating that the 6 o clock position resulted in lower temps. I'm going to install mine at 12, but this might be something to look into to further help the cooling with these engines. When get around to tapping an aftermarket gauge into my t-stat housing i'll do some comparison.

Couple of things:

• Be careful measuring EGTs from the egr blank off, you'll find readings from that location are consistently lower and slower to respond than a probe that is properly positioned in the flow of exhaust.
• While I understand why folks might think drilling and tapping a hole can cause cast iron to crack, holes in cast iron are conventionally used to relieve stress and stop cracks from propagating. When used correctly, there is no reason a good bit and properly sized tap should crack your manifold.
• The jiggle valve is there to help air trapped in the system pass the thermostat, so it makes sense to orient it at the highest possible position (in this case 12 o clock). No idea how people think this has anything to do with operating temps.

 

[Jemjem787]

Thanks John for that advice, finished buttoning it up yesterday doing everything proper. Full list of things that was done was the rad cap, rad, thermostat, coolant, numerous flushes, fan clutch, turbo, water and egt gauges, and a cleanup of the intake manifold, appreciate everyone's help in this thread. Now that it's back together, I'm having a couple more issues I'm struggling to solve on my own. Would appreciate a 2nd look.

I'm getting quite a bit of steam/vapor/smoke out of where the turbo sits, and it's impossible to determine where its coming from. It's almost like the turbo itself is smoking? Doesn't smoke at idle, only when its warmed up after a drive and stops after a minute or two once stopped. I'm confident every bolt is tight, with clean connections between the other components. With my new fan clutch creating a hurricane of wind in the engine bay, it's playing with the smoke a bit which isn't helping me locate the leak. I've read that sometimes the shipping oil or grease (that was prevalant on mine) can take a while to burn off, so i was going to leave this for a while and keep an eye on it to see if it stops. Would appreciate some advice though on locating leaks.

2nd issue is I'm getting considerably worse knocking at idle than before (Sounds like an injector knock), its shaking more at idle, and extremely rough shutdowns. Only thing fuel related that was touched is taking off the 4 hardlines to get at the intake, so maybe i messed up and some grit found its way into an injector? I've tried narrowing down which cylinder it might be, by holding a screwdriver to my ear and going around the engine bay, but it's proving difficult. The shaking stops considerably once i rev up to around 1200, and the knocking dies down at higher revs as well. I have a friend with some used but supposedly good 2lte injectors, so my next plan of attack was to swap them out 1 by 1 and see if gets better or worse. Would something on the intake side/exhaust side cause this?

 

[Dprio34]

@Jemjem787 , I can confirm the same experience with regard to the "shaking" at idle below 1000 RPM. Mine smooths out very nicely at 1000 RPM. Cold Starts in the winter seem to aggravate this problem when idling around 750 RPM.

Shutdown as well is very abrupt to say the least. I heard that is why Toyota went with the dual mass flywheel to smooth down the shutdown. Not sure if that is true or not, what you have for a flywheel, buy I replaced mine with a solid fly wheel. But again, Yes, very rough when turning off the engine.

 

[AirheadNut]

An easier way to test which injector might be making noise is to crack the fuel line nut at each injector one by one and see if one of them makes a bigger change than the others. Its a good idea to wad up a paper towel or shop rag around the fitting so it doesn't spray diesel all over your engine.

 

[John in Utah]

Could be an exhaust leak from the turbo causing the smoke? If you’re sure it’s steam watch your coolant level if you’re still using the factory water lines to the turbo. FWIW I run my CT20 fine with no water cooling.

Did you remove the throttle plate during all this work? That’s normally when people notice the rougher shut downs. L series also chew through motor mounts pretty quick, when I replaced mine they were completely separated in two and a lot of my rough idle and shutdown problems went away. You can test them by setting the ebrake and chocking the wheels and watching the engine move while a friend starts to let the clutch out in 1st - I was able to watch my motor lift a few inches off it’s mounts.

 

[Jemjem787]

@Jemjem787 , I can confirm the same experience with regard to the "shaking" at idle below 1000 RPM. Mine smooths out very nicely at 1000 RPM. Cold Starts in the winter seem to aggravate this problem when idling around 750 RPM.

Shutdown as well is very abrupt to say the least. I heard that is why Toyota went with the dual mass flywheel to smooth down the shutdown. Not sure if that is true or not, what you have for a
flywheel, buy I replaced mine with a solid fly wheel. But again, Yes, very rough when turning off the engine.

My idle has always fluctuated betwen 700-900, and while my vehicle previously shaked at idle, it wasn't this bad 2 weeks ago, so that's why im considering it a "problem". I also have the single mass flywheel. (EDIT: to be clear, it wasn't this bad prior to me doing this overhaul, so that's why i think something went wrong.

An easier way to test which injector might be making noise is to crack the fuel line nut at each injector one by one and see if one of them makes a bigger change than the others. Its a good idea to wad up a paper towel or shop rag around the fitting so it doesn't spray diesel all over your engine.

I didn't really notice any significant difference between the injectors when bleeding them, but i also wasn't keeping an ear out for it. I'll try this again tomorrow, thanks.

Could be an exhaust leak from the turbo causing the smoke? If you’re sure it’s steam watch your coolant level if you’re still using the factory water lines to the turbo. FWIW I run my CT20 fine with no water cooling.

Did you remove the throttle plate during all this work? That’s normally when people notice the rougher shut downs. L series also chew through motor mounts pretty quick, when I replaced mine they were completely separated in two and a lot of my rough idle and shutdown problems went away. You can test them by setting the ebrake and chocking the wheels and watching the engine move while a friend starts to let the clutch out in 1st - I was able to watch my motor lift a few inches off it’s mounts.

I really can't tell what it is, if it is exhaust then the hole must open up when it gets warm. I'm watching my coolant level like a hawk, but with my recent flush, I've been chalking up the minimal amount of coolant loss ive noticed to air bubbles working their way out of the system. My throttle plate was already removed a few months ago, however this time around i removed the little butterfly plate instead of leaving it jammed open, as i noticed crud was starting to build up on it.

My motor has always shaked back and forth pretty severely when starting, gonna add those mounts to my next shopping cart. According to my diagram, all i need to get are 2 of the same mounts? The part number showing up for me is 12361-54121 EDIT: Figured out the engine mount, will diagnose it tommorow and order the parts if its what i need.

When rebuilding the turbo i was confused on how it was watercooled, there are 2 seperate hoses going into the turbo, but once it enters it's a common chamber that both the inlet and the outlet are connected too. Didn't seem like it was right at first, but my old turbo had the same thing going on. You say you've capped off the cooling? Howmuch boost are you running? I might try to do this temporarily just to see if its somehow munching on my coolant.

 

[John in Utah]

Yes they’re the same pet number left and right. Check your trans crossmember mount while you’re at it, you can see visually if its torn too much.

Ya, I’m not sure how efficient that system is, I’m convinced it only strains the engines cooling system even more. One line is positive pressure to the heater core and the other is return, so it should circulate a bit in that chamber. General internet consensus is diesel turbos don’t need water cooling if you’re diligent about letting egts idle to <400 deg before shutting it down to prevent the oil sitting and getting too hot. Probably a good idea to run synthetic oil though. Before my intercooler I spent hours at a time with egts around 1200 deg and 10 psi boost with no indications of coking. I do have stock LJ heat shields and heat wrapped my downpipe. Lots of turbo 3Bs out there running without water lines too (mine included).

 

[Jemjem787]

Yes they’re the same pet number left and right. Check your trans crossmember mount while you’re at it, you can see visually if its torn too much.

Ya, I’m not sure how efficient that system is, I’m convinced it only strains the engines cooling system even more. One line is positive pressure to the heater core and the other is return, so it should circulate a bit in that chamber. General internet consensus is diesel turbos don’t need water cooling if you’re diligent about letting egts idle to <400 deg before shutting it down to prevent the oil sitting and getting too hot. Probably a good idea to run synthetic oil though. Before my intercooler I spent hours at a time with egts around 1200 deg and 10 psi boost with no indications of coking. I do have stock LJ heat shields and heat wrapped my downpipe. Lots of turbo 3Bs out there running without water lines too (mine included).

Took a look and both my mounts are extremely accessible, doesn't look like too difficult of a job, but i'm looking at $120 for the pair shipped/duty. They look extremely similar to some 4runner mounts i've handled so i'm gonna check out my buddies parts rig and see if they line up, might be able to just use some regular old 4runner mounts. Thanks for the help. Gonna block off my turbo cooling tommorow and see if that fixes the issue, maybe i just got a bad turbo?

Also i thought i would post a video of the new knocking sound the engine is making. Almost sounds like marbles are banging around in my block somewhere.

 

[Dprio34]

@Jemjem787 , Sounds like a normal healthy running 2L-T to me.

 

[IanB]

@Jemjem787 , Sounds like a normal heathy running 2L-T to me.

That was my take as well, not a lot different than my 1HD-T sounds like.

 

[Jemjem787]

@Jemjem787 , Sounds like a normal heathy running 2L-T to me.

That was my take as well, not a lot different than my 1HD-T sounds like.

It's significantly more knocky at idle than before my little overhaul, and the difference between before and after is why i think i messed up somehow. Really unsure what to think at this point, maybe the old turbo was creating sounds that was drowning out this knocking, so after getting a fresh turbo that makes less noise at idle, i can hear the knocking? It's a huge difference in the knocking though, i thought of this at first but im still unsure.

 

[GTSSportCoupe]

It's significantly more knocky at idle than before my little overhaul, and the difference between before and after is why i think i messed up somehow. Really unsure what to think at this point, maybe the old turbo was creating sounds that was drowning out this knocking, so after getting a fresh turbo that makes less noise at idle, i can hear the knocking? It's a huge difference in the knocking though, i thought of this at first but im still unsure.

It does sound ok to me too. Sometimes when everything has been apart and there is still air in the fuel system, the engine will sound more clacky than normal until the truck has driven a few days and worked the air out. Maybe give it a bit of time and see how things go.

If you do try different injectors, make sure you have new nozzle crush washers ready to go on hand. Those are the ones that seal the nozzle to the pre-combustion chamber that you can't re-use. If you do re-use them, the exhaust gasses will leak around and coke up / overheat the injector nozzles, and cause you lots more issues. (been there, lol).

 

[Jemjem787]

Managed to find time to get everything back together, still have a few air leaks that i gotta figure out. The waste gate shaft that goes into the exhaust side housing is leaking tons, and the hole that my EGT probe goes into has a slow leak, but it's still driveable. Going up a nearby hill, i can easily hit 1200F EGTs foot to the floor, which from the sounds of it is pretty hot. I've read that leaks in the "up pipe" section can cause this, as well as stock gearing with bigger tires, so it kind of makes sense. Have regearing/locker plans in the near future, and once i figure out that up pipe leak, as well as exhaust/increasing boost, i feel like it should even out a bit.

Anyone have ideas for the wastegate shaft leak? It look's like a solid piece that isn't serviceable, short of taking out a grinder and a welder.

 

[IanB]

How did you track a leak to the wastegate shaft? I'm chasing an issue of my own and it never occurred to me that was a possible source of escape.