Box Rocket
SILVER Star
Yeah not sure what to say about your warranty period however, if those were my shocks I'd be considering a rebuild and shaft replacement. Those corroded areas on the shaft will wear out shaft seals much quicker.
Icon Stage 1 Suspension Questions
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Yeah not sure what to say about your warranty period however, if those were my shocks I'd be considering a rebuild and shaft replacement. Those corroded areas on the shaft will wear out shaft seals much quicker.
A tip from my dh mtb 2 wheeled fun. When a fork stanchion gets all dinged up from a get off, we would paint it over with clear nail polish. Then when set, use super fine grit sandpaper and polish it even with the leg. Might help
Ta I have a stack of 1200 grit wet-and-dry sandpaper. Not sure where I might find any sort of actual chrome 'paint'.
Icon repaired the 2 rear shocks, and I had them revalved based on my feedback of too much uncontrolled sway when crawling. When removing the Bilstein's that I had installed temporarily, I noticed one of the pin mounts on it was bent as well.
I am at a loss with what is possibly going on. I have re-checked my panhard length, everything is centered. I did notice that at full extension the upper mount bracket is approximately 1.5" away from its seated position when bolted in.
I am at a loss with what is possibly going on. I have re-checked my panhard length, everything is centered. I did notice that at full extension the upper mount bracket is approximately 1.5" away from its seated position when bolted in.
@Box Rocket I was hoping you might be able to shed some light on my previous post with the 1.5" gap on the bracket at droop. You have had various configurations on your truck, have you noticed the same gap?
I will try to clarify.
I have had issues with ripping the top stud mount clean out of the shock body, see prior posts. While I was waiting for the Icons to get repaired, I installed a set of Bilsteins that were roughly the same extended and compressed measurements. When I removed the Bilsteins, I found a bent upper pin. This tells me that the failure is likely due to side loading the pin and pulling the threads out. This could only happen at full droop.
The picture above is the suspension fully drooped out, without the upper bracket mount bolted to the truck. I did this to see how far out of line from normal ride height the mount would be pulled. I can't see how that isn't normal as I have centered the panhard, and the rear end is as straight as can be.
Well Icon was of no help. They basically responded that if I had larger springs for a 4-6" lift it would stop this from happening. Which makes absolutely no sense because larger springs don't change how the shock pivots and the side load stress placed on the upper shock mount.
Maybe they misspoke and meant longer shocks for the 4-6" lift? Seem to remember their shocks come in 0-3" and 4-6" varieties for our trucks.
I have the 4-6" shocks, but I am only running J springs. I explain why in an earlier post but the measurements were pretty much bang on extended and compressed.
I have at least 8 emails going back and forth and they keep stating its due to the mish mash of parts. I can't see any possible way that is the cause of any issue I am having.
Seems odd that the shear would be from over compression and not a tension failure ... but I'm not a mechanical engineer, so essentially clueless. I thought I remembered you mentioning limiting straps, which is why I was thinking tension failure.
I have 0-3" Icons on a truck with 4" of lift. Will be interesting to see how everything plays out.
I have 0-3" Icons on a truck with 4" of lift. Will be interesting to see how everything plays out.
Its not an issue at compression, at full extension it is side loading the stem. Eventually it pulls it clean out of the shock body.
Has me very puzzled...
Next step will be getting rid of the pin mount entirely and going with a more standard setup, like the lower mount.
Well every response has told me that I am over extending the shocks, which makes absolutely zero logical sense at all. Then when I respond with logical reasons as to why that doesn't make sense, it gets quiet... Considering the free height of my coils is actually less than the Icon coils, so there is no extra load on the shock at full droop. I also had this happen with the coils that Icon sells with these shocks, so that eliminates that as well...
No aftermarket suspension system for these trucks include or recommend limit straps either, also a good tell.
I would really like to see if anyone elses truck has that gap on the upper mounting plate at full droop with only the lower shock mount attached.
All I can sort at this stage is that softer bushings would help, and likely more rebound damping to help slow the shock down when reaching the end of the travel. The replacement shocks I have received more rebound dampening, I guess time will tell.
For the cost of these, I would have expected more support and discussion from Icon. Yes they are their lower tier shocks, but physics is physics and their reasons for the failures just don't jive.
Maybe now that I am on 37's and have lower bumps I won't side load that pin as much since I am not using full shock travel anymore...
No aftermarket suspension system for these trucks include or recommend limit straps either, also a good tell.
I would really like to see if anyone elses truck has that gap on the upper mounting plate at full droop with only the lower shock mount attached.
All I can sort at this stage is that softer bushings would help, and likely more rebound damping to help slow the shock down when reaching the end of the travel. The replacement shocks I have received more rebound dampening, I guess time will tell.
For the cost of these, I would have expected more support and discussion from Icon. Yes they are their lower tier shocks, but physics is physics and their reasons for the failures just don't jive.
Maybe now that I am on 37's and have lower bumps I won't side load that pin as much since I am not using full shock travel anymore...
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Box Rocket
SILVER Star
Well, typically if you go to a doctor and he gives a diagnosis, it's common to get a second (or even a third) opinion. When all of the diagnosis' are the same it's a pretty good bet that that's a good place to start with your treatment.
If you're getting multiple people who you consider to be knowledegable on the topic give you the same reason for it, I think it might be a good thing to consider.
Even if it doesn't make sense to you. I'll respond here publicly since I was one that you reached out to privately and are now complaining about "going quiet" to your "logical reasons" why it doesn't makes sense. I'll point out that many people, myself included, don't just have the forum open constantly to respond immediately to any comment or question that arises. So maybe a bit of patience would also do you good, especially when you're waiting for a response from someone that isn't even tied to the company in any way. I realize you don't think it makes sense that over-extending your shocks could damage the shocks but I'd wager that if you speak to ANY shock manufacturer they will tell you not to over-extend the shock or else it could risk damage. Having no extra "load" from the spring isn't necessary to apply sufficient force to potentially cause damage. There are lots of factors, but just the weight of the axle/tire could be enough to cause the damage you're having. Most 80 series with radius arms in the front will max out travel before one that has a 3-link or links that don't hit a physical restriction like radius arms hitting the axle brackets. Those physical limits are also effected by the type of bushing used in the links and whether or not stock style swaybars are installed. These parts can all limit travel (at least in part) which would explain why no bolt-on suspension kit is sold with limiting straps. A poly bushing is almost always going to flex less than a factory rubber bushing for example. So, your comment about maybe running a softer bushing might exacerbate the problem if you're allowing more suspension travel to take place with a shock that is too short. A softer bushing at the top pin of the shock *might* help with side loading but it will still have a physical limit.
I'd ask another question about your setup. Do you have adjustable panhards or a rear panhard lift bracket installed? If your axle isn't centered you'll have additional lateral force on one of the shocks for sure as the suspension droops. What about coil spacers? Are you running any coil spacers?
Lastly, the fact that if you unbolt the top of the shock it will allow the axle to droop farther is definitive evidence that the shock is too short and it getting extended past it's limit at full flex unless you have something else in place to limit the droop. Don't know how to be more clear about that. If you're side loading the shock pin to the point of breaking it, then something is off in your suspension geometry. Otherwise it would be happening to everyone running those shocks, which it is not. I'd also suggest not ruling out that you might be causing the damage by bottoming out the shock. If your bumpstops or tires aren't stopping the suspension compression before the shock bottoms out, that can also cause damage.
Box Rocket
SILVER Star
One more thing, converting the same shocks to an eye style top mount instead of the pin might not solve your problem since the eye will thread into the top of the shock body the same way the pin does. So if it's still getting side-loaded you might just keep breaking them.
Well, typically if you go to a doctor and he gives a diagnosis, it's common to get a second (or even a third) opinion. When all of the diagnosis' are the same it's a pretty good bet that that's a good place to start with your treatment.
If you're getting multiple people who you consider to be knowledegable on the topic give you the same reason for it, I think it might be a good thing to consider.
I realize you don't think it makes sense that over-extending your shocks could damage the shocks but I'd wager that if you speak to ANY shock manufacturer they will tell you not to over-extend the shock or else it could risk damage. Having no extra "load" from the spring isn't necessary to apply sufficient force to potentially cause damage. There are lots of factors, but just the weight of the axle/tire could be enough to cause the damage you're having. Most 80 series with radius arms in the front will max out travel before one that has a 3-link or links that don't hit a physical restriction like radius arms hitting the axle brackets. Those physical limits are also effected by the type of bushing used in the links and whether or not stock style swaybars are installed. These parts can all limit travel (at least in part) which would explain why no bolt-on suspension kit is sold with limiting straps. A poly bushing is almost always going to flex less than a factory rubber bushing for example. So, your comment about maybe running a softer bushing might exacerbate the problem if you're allowing more suspension travel to take place with a shock that is too short. A softer bushing at the top pin of the shock *might* help with side loading but it will still have a physical limit.
I'd ask another question about your setup. Do you have adjustable panhards or a rear panhard lift bracket installed? If your axle isn't centered you'll have additional lateral force on one of the shocks for sure as the suspension droops. What about coil spacers? Are you running any coil spacers?
Lastly, the fact that if you unbolt the top of the shock it will allow the axle to droop farther is definitive evidence that the shock is too short and it getting extended past it's limit at full flex unless you have something else in place to limit the droop. Don't know how to be more clear about that. If you're side loading the shock pin to the point of breaking it, then something is off in your suspension geometry. Otherwise it would be happening to everyone running those shocks, which it is not. I'd also suggest not ruling out that you might be causing the damage by bottoming out the shock. If your bumpstops or tires aren't stopping the suspension compression before the shock bottoms out, that can also cause damage.
You're right, I have gotten multiple opinions from people with Icon's and 80's. Yes, just like a doctor. But when the doctor tells me that its my leg when I am complaining about shoulder pain, well I guess you can see where this is going.
I also never once said that over extending the shocks couldn't damage them. What I have stated is how everyones first default answer is over-extension, almost like its the "I don't know so tell him that" response. Yet my mild build is nowhere near as flexy as some, and they don't have any issues...
When you lift your truck by the frame, are your shocks limiting your overall droop? Don't do that, they may explode. Obvious sarcasm here...
I wheel with at least a dozen other 80's with various suspension builds that don't have this issue. Some have longer springs and shorter shocks, some have shorter shocks and longer springs. One thing that is common however is the lack of limit straps.
My softer bushing idea is the upper shock mount bushing.
Yes I have aftermarket lower arms, and the panhard mount is raised and centered on the axle, and all on factory bushings.
I unbolt the upper mount, and it still touches the frame on the inside edge of that mount. The shock isn't maxed out in that position. The pictures above were posted for clarification from anyone who has done an install and noticed the same thing. Which is also why I originally reached out to you. To see if you may have had the same gap.
Bumpstops have been checked at least 10 times, they aren't the problem.
You mentioned that maybe my shocks are too short? The extended length is longer than I need or can use...
You're giving yourself too much credit, you weren't the only one to go quiet. When I counter the default answer with logical responses, yes logical, then there is silence.
So forgive me if I may seem a touch short. I guess I am tired of the "well its clearly this" when its clearly not. All in I still appreciate the time and input.
Box Rocket
SILVER Star
Ok sounds like you know what you’re dealing with. Best of luck to you.
