I Like Big Brakes and I Cannot Lie!!!

[I Lean]

I have some before and after brake-test measurements in my thread here: Big brakes for the 80 - https://forum.ih8mud.com/threads/big-brakes-for-the-80.1186937/

Just for comparison's sake. Mine are not the same as any in this thread. (everything here is better, I wouldn't do mine again the same way...but they work fine)

 

[synapse]

Yea totally get it (I track a heavy, high HP M car), but I think a comparison with quantifiable data is helpful. Even relatively comparable stopping distance between stock and a built rig with a bbk would be crazy, with all that extra weight. 10-15 feet more would be pretty good honestly from that speed. And tires make a huge difference in stopping my distance as well of course. I was just hoping there was some sort of comparison to before/after or against stock. I’ll check out the other thread as well.

Oh yeah for sure, I have a 2nd 80, bone stock LX450 that recently had it's brakes refreshed. New pads, rotors, and calipers all around. This will be a perfect benchmark. I mention in the thread that initial impression by seat of the pants feel, that the F+R brake upgrade is better at stopping my 6k lb 80 on 38's better than our completely stock LX450. Have since upgraded my impression that the green 80 stops like a modern vehicle and not something 3 decades old. This is by no means a back to back comparison, and I do intend to do that shortly. Just had my family visit and have my partners family visiting soon, then a move planned at the end of the month, so quite busy. But once I find a good road and once were settled into the new place will definitely do back to back comparisons, so keep an eye on my thread.

 

[on the rocks]

Maybe I missed it, but is there an actual before/after comparison on stopping distances with big brake kits, or with different pads? It’s not like we are tracking these things with huge heat buildup , though some heat reg is probably helpful…I would be more interested in 70-0 stopping distance/emergency braking

I thought I added mine here but did it in another thread. so many variables to a test though. After doing it now, I would suggest refreshing the system before diving in the calipers and rotors. My gain was much greater after replacing the tired, old system, removing the LSVP and ABS and upgrading the booster. I did get a really good improvement from the rotors and calipers though. I might be able to finally get it out in the hills next weekend and get a full good test but driving it around town I could feel a hugh difference post install/ pre booster. It did make me realize my issues were much deeper than at the wheels though.

80 Series brake hydro booster conversion installed

'Murica!

forum.ih8mud.com

Post #134
I forgot I had this. Last test a few days ago, I was marking the road with white paint as I changed things over time. I’m a believer. 40-0 test. I tried to do a video but it ended up being a bit tougher than expected.
Top line- old, tired ABS, LSPV OEM calipers much lighter 80 with 35's
Middle line- 10' stop improvement adding 14" Tundra rotors and 6 piston 4runner Wilwood's. Post heavy armor and 37's
Bottom line. 33' improvement from first test! After LSPV, ABS delete and hydro booster add in addition to the caliper and rotor mod.

 

[on the rocks]

Not to hijack but been developing a matched front and rear brake upgrade. Will come in two rear choices. Stage 2-Lite and Stage 2-R.

Currently the 2 Lite being tested on the vehicle. But end-game is to do a 2-R, full 14"x1.1" 2pc design with Wilwood calipers and ditching the drum parking brake for Wilwood electronic parking brake. Development of the 2-R will begin soon. But so far Stage 2-Lite setup is a huge step up in performance.

Full technical write-up and lots and lots of photos:
Stopping a 6k lb 80 on 38's better than completely stock

I might be interested in the rears but it depends on the cost of someone else providing the setup and my time to do the legwork and what rears you pair with it. The fronts were incredibly easy but I also had these guys doing the legwork early on this thread, I just had to throw my own twist on it, spends endless hours on the Wilwood site and talking to their engineers and find a machinist locally. I think it's kind of converting the fronts and not the rears even if it doesn't help the stopping. The weight reduction and ditching the (near useless) drums and matching calipers alone would be worth it to me.

 

[ATXnative]

I thought I added mine here but did it in another thread. so many variables to a test though. After doing it now, I would suggest refreshing the system before diving in the calipers and rotors. My gain was much greater after replacing the tired, old system, removing the LSVP and ABS and upgrading the booster. I did get a really good improvement from the rotors and calipers though. I might be able to finally get it out in the hills next weekend and get a full good test but driving it around town I could feel a hugh difference post install/ pre booster. It did make me realize my issues were much deeper than at the wheels though.

80 Series brake hydro booster conversion installed

'Murica!

forum.ih8mud.com

Post #134
I forgot I had this. Last test a few days ago, I was marking the road with white paint as I changed things over time. I’m a believer. 40-0 test. I tried to do a video but it ended up being a bit tougher than expected.
Top line- old, tired ABS, LSPV OEM calipers much lighter 80 with 35's
Middle line- 10' stop improvement adding 14" Tundra rotors and 6 piston 4runner Wilwood's. Post heavy armor and 37's
Bottom line. 33' improvement from first test! After LSPV, ABS delete and hydro booster add in addition to the caliper and rotor mod.

This is a great comparison! 33’ is a game changer in an emergency situation

 

[Will Van]

With the lackluster 80 series brakes and all the excess weight, extra power on tap with forced induction and a few close calls...I have wanted to get some better braking performance. I have already moved to 17” wheels, so rotor diameter is not limited like with the stock 16” wheels.

My goal was to keep the parts used as OEM as possible for future availability and maintenance ease/cost.

I new that the 5th gen 4Runner front calipers share the same bolt pattern as the 80 series calipers so I ordered up a pair from Toyota. I also wanted to attempt to make the front brakes easier to service by going to a slip fit design, allowing the hub to be left in place...the early 200 series rotor dimensions looked promising...so picked up a pair of those too.

The early 200 rotors are 13.3” diameter...same as the 5th gen 4Runner diameter.

The theory was to machine the hub wheel face down enough to allow the centerline of the 200 rotor to sit in the middle of the 4Runner caliper. My friend @I Lean then took my hubs to his lathe to turn them down enough to get the center line matched up.

After getting the rotor mounting depth on the hub right, the next step is to ensure the slip fit rotors are hub centric. Since the 80 hub is 106mm and the 200 rotor hub hole is 112mm, the solution what to cut out a .25” plate ring that could be pressed over the hub and then turned down on the lathe to 112mm.

This pic shows the machined face with ring pressed on and turned down. The rotor fits perfectly centered in place.
View attachment 2276532

This next part isn’t essential, but it is one solution to a problem that kept in line with my design to stick with OEM parts. When moving to a slip fit design, the thickness of the hub mating face of the rotor (.25”) would reduce engagable wheel stud length by the same amount. You could solve this problem a few ways.

• Get longer M12 studs from some other application.
• Use ET lug nuts designed to engage further down the threads.
• The option I went with...use 100 series M14 wheel studs. These are longer and also stronger. I liked this since I have already snapped M12 wheel studs on the interstate and that is some scary sh!t.

So the wheel studs holes got drilled out to accept the M14 studs and new studs pressed into the hubs. I also swapped out the hub studs with ARP studs.
View attachment 2276534

The last step is to modify the bolt pattern on the 200 rotor from 5 bolt to 6 bolt. @I Lean cut out a template on his plasma table to use as a drill pattern. This is the only part that would be great to find a better solution for...such as rotor blanks pre-drilling.

Test fitment of hub and rotor in 17” Icon Alloy wheel once my new M14x1.5 Method lugs arrived.
View attachment 2276535

After rebuilding the knuckle (while your in there victim), I slapped the rotor, caliper and pads on...pretty happy with the result so far.
View attachment 2276538

The pad alignment is perfect with the 13.3” rotors
View attachment 2276539

I still need to hook up the hydraulics and figure out if I need to change out the master with a larger bore...but will run as-is to test before touching the master.

Got quite a bit done yesterday!
I got the hubs from the machinist and went to work!
-Replaced the Vac assist (brake booster)
-Drilled new pattern into rotors
-Cut ARP wheel studs to length (-3/4")
-Pressed in new bearing races (Koyo bearings)
-Mounted hubs to test fit rotors
-Clearanced dust shields to rotors (1/4")
-Mounted calipers to test rotor spacing (rotor is within 1/8" of center of caliper)
-Removed hubs and pressed in new ARP wheel studs
-Packed hubs and bearing with grease
-Installed wheel seals
-Installed hubs onto spindles, and set preload
-Installed hub drive flanges and torqued to spec
-installed rotors to take a pic!!

View attachment 2292475

View attachment 2292476

View attachment 2292477



View attachment 2292479

...and there's no need for a ring at al if we machine a bit more off the face, since there will already be a large enough "step" to center the rotor on without adding a ring. (thus the .200" dimension for V.2)

Reviving this thread.

Fantastic work @Dirty Koala @Cruzilla and @I Lean. Really cool to see the creativity to make all this work with OEM parts and some light(ish) machine work.

I am on the hunt for a bolt-on rotor solution. Any specs you can give me about the 200 series front rotors? Obviously we need to convert to a 6 x 139.7mm bolt pattern. And they need to be approximately 13.3 diameter. Any other specs for the slip fit rotors? What is the approximate depth of the 200 series hat?

TIA

 

[Will Van]

I pulled this tech drawing from Brembo for the 200 series front rotors. Does it look correct?

 

[justinlyman]

Reviving this thread.

Fantastic work @Dirty Koala @Cruzilla and @I Lean. Really cool to see the creativity to make all this work with OEM parts and some light(ish) machine work.

I am on the hunt for a bolt-on rotor solution. Any specs you can give me about the 200 series front rotors? Obviously we need to convert to a 6 x 139.7mm bolt pattern. And they need to be approximately 13.3 diameter. Any other specs for the slip fit rotors? What is the approximate depth of the 200 series hat?

TIA

Here are the specs I have gathered, I have not confirmed any of this info, it is just what I have found online. I do have a pair of OEM Tundra rotors in hand, just haven't had a chance to measure them to verify:

200 Landcruiser Front Rotor Specs:
5 lug
P/N: 43512-60180
Nominal thickness: 32mm (1.26”)
Outside Diameter: 340mm (13.39”)
Overall Height 83.2mm (3.28”)
Hub Hole Diameter: 112mm

I plan to use the 3rd gen Tundra rotors, but may not be an option for you if you want to run 16" wheels.

2023 Tundra Front Rotor Specs:
P/N: 43512-0C030
Outside diameter: 354mm (13.94”)
Thickness: 32mm
bolt pattern: 6 x 5.5"(139.7mm)
Height: 83.8mm (3.3")
Hub Hole Diameter: 97mm (3.82'')

 

[Will Van]

Here are the specs I have gathered, I have not confirmed any of this info, it is just what I have found online. I do have a pair of OEM Tundra rotors in hand, just haven't had a chance to measure them to verify:

200 Landcruiser Front Rotor Specs:
5 lug
P/N: 43512-60180
Nominal thickness: 32mm (1.26”)
Outside Diameter: 340mm (13.39”)
Overall Height 83.2mm (3.28”)
Hub Hole Diameter: 112mm

I plan to use the 3rd gen Tundra rotors, but may not be an option for you if you want to run 16" wheels.

2023 Tundra Front Rotor Specs:
P/N: 43512-0C030
Outside diameter: 354mm (13.94”)
Thickness: 32mm
bolt pattern: 6 x 5.5"(139.7mm)
Height: 83.8mm (3.3")
Hub Hole Diameter: 97mm (3.82'')

Great intel on the 3rd gen Tundra rotors. I am planning on running 17" wheels, so no problem there.

But will the 354 mm diameter Tundra discs still work with the 5th gen 4Runner calipers? I thought they were too big?

 

[justinlyman]

Great intel on the 3rd gen Tundra rotors. I am planning on running 17" wheels, so no problem there.

But will the 354 mm diameter Tundra discs still work with the 5th gen 4Runner calipers? I thought they were too big?

No, don't think the 4runner calipers will work with the bigger rotors.

I am most likely going to run Wilwood Forged Superlite 4R Radial Mount Calipers(may have to go with to the narrow FNSL4R version, still need measure clearance with my rims).

 

[Marvelicious]

Definitely seems like less work to bore the center out larger than drill a new bolt pattern. Since they need machining regardless, I bet you could turn the outside diameter of the Tundra rotors down a touch to fit the 4runner calipers. 14mm isn't that much difference. You could do both operations on a 14" lathe pretty easily.

I keep waiting to hear someone hit on the magic combination that bolts right together. I figure my current brakes have at least a year left in them, so you guys have until then to figure it out!

I prefer the idea of using OEM parts rather than Wilwood, just for ease of availability at any parts store, but I'd also prefer using parts that don't need modification, especially with a brake system. It's an unlikely worst case scenario, but I wouldn't ever want to wind up in a courtroom after some terrible wreck explaining, "Yes your honor, I modified those brakes myself, but I can assure you they're better than the originals."

Then again, I'm running beadlocks, so I'd be screwed anyway.

 

[Will Van]

Definitely seems like less work to bore the center out larger than drill a new bolt pattern. Since they need machining regardless, I bet you could turn the outside diameter of the Tundra rotors down a touch to fit the 4runner calipers. 14mm isn't that much difference. You could do both operations on a 14" lathe pretty easily.

I keep waiting to hear someone hit on the magic combination that bolts right together. I figure my current brakes have at least a year left in them, so you guys have until then to figure it out!

I prefer the idea of using OEM parts rather than Wilwood, just for ease of availability at any parts store, but I'd also prefer using parts that don't need modification, especially with a brake system. It's an unlikely worst case scenario, but I wouldn't ever want to wind up in a courtroom after some terrible wreck explaining, "Yes your honor, I modified those brakes myself, but I can assure you they're better than the originals."

Then again, I'm running beadlocks, so I'd be screwed anyway.

Good point. You could bore the center to 106mm and turn down the rotors 7mm.

 

[Marvelicious]

Thinking about it, if I had a 14" lathe (instead of my wimpy little 10" ) I would set up a faceplate with a 6x5.5 lug pattern so I could slap a rotor on it lug-centric with very little setup and machine them in no time. It's a little extra work on the first rotor, but when you need to replace them, setting up the lathe is no harder than mounting a wheel.

 

[Will Van]

Thinking about it, if I had a 14" lathe (instead of my wimpy little 10" ) I would set up a faceplate with a 6x5.5 lug pattern so I could slap a rotor on it lug-centric with very little setup and machine them in no time. It's a little extra work on the first rotor, but when you need to replace them, setting up the lathe is no harder than mounting a wheel.

That’s a great idea! How would you machine the 106mm bore on the discs?

 

[justinlyman]

That’s a great idea! How would you machine the 106mm bore on the discs?

I have a 14" lathe that can handle expanding the center bore of the Tundra rotor to 106mm.

I am going with the Wilwood calipers for the following reasons:
- I want as large of a rotor as I can fit
- they have better brake pad options
- They are more rigid
- Multiple piston area options will make it easier to balance with the rear brakes
- Price is not much more than the 4runner calipers

However, cutting down the outside diameter of the Tundra rotors to fit in the 4runner caliper setup could def be a viable option if you wanted to go that route. The Tundra rotors are a smidge taller, but that may be a good thing as the 200 series rotors are bit short, so that might center them up better.

 

[Will Van]

I have a 14" lathe that can handle expanding the center bore of the Tundra rotor to 106mm.

I am going with the Wilwood calipers for the following reasons:
- I want as large of a rotor as I can fit
- they have better brake pad options
- They are more rigid
- Multiple piston area options will make it easier to balance with the rear brakes
- Price is not much more than the 4runner calipers

However, cutting down the outside diameter of the Tundra rotors to fit in the 4runner caliper setup could def be a viable option if you wanted to go that route. The Tundra rotors are a smidge taller, but that may be a good thing as the 200 series rotors are bit short, so that might center them up better.

This is all great intel. I agree, the Tundra rotors being slightly taller is a good thing. That means you have to take less material off the face of the hub.

Do you have adapters to properly mount & center the Wilwood calipers on the knuckles? That has been my main hesitation on the Wilwood calipers.

 

[Will Van]

Part numbers for reference:
4Runner Calipers: 47750-60300 & 47730-60300
4Runner Pads: 04465-60320
200 Series Rotors: 43512-60180

Do you have the part number for the 100 series 14mm studs?

 

[justinlyman]

Do you have the part number for the 100 series 14mm studs?

90942-02083

Just ordered some myself.

 

[justinlyman]

This is all great intel. I agree, the Tundra rotors being slightly taller is a good thing. That means you have to take less material off the face of the hub.

Do you have adapters to properly mount & center the Wilwood calipers on the knuckles? That has been my main hesitation on the Wilwood calipers.

I still need to take some measurements and see if they have some that will work. If not I plan to draw some up in CAD and have them made. Happy to share the model if I end up going that route.

 

[Ragnaroek]

For reference: I copied @Dirty Koala 's original design for my 80. Running 16" wheels, 0 offset, with 30mm spacers to clear the calipers. 36" tires.
Just came home after a 6000 mile trip to Morocco, brakes worked absolutely perfect. 10/10.