How much slip is ok on a typical Toyota driveshaft?

Discussion in 'HardCore Corner' started by gpfj40, Sep 28, 2018.

  1. gpfj40

    gpfj40

    Messages:
    259
    Albums:
    1
    Likes Received:
    224
    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2013
    Location:
    Grande Prairie AB
    im looking for opinions and experiences here. My front 3 link will require 2.125” of driveshaft slip from full bump to full droop. That leaves only 2.5” of splines engaged. Will that be ok or do I need a long slip?
    image.jpg
     
  2. cruisermatt

    cruisermatt ランドクル62! SILVER Star

    Messages:
    6,341
    Media:
    11
    Albums:
    2
    Likes Received:
    3,065
    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2012
    Location:
    Orlando Florida
    The Cruiser shafts have about 3" of slip to them. So you are well within the safe range.
    I usually shoot for having the diameter of the splined section as my amount of engagement at full extension. So around an inch or so?
     
  3. 65swb45

    65swb45 Elder Statesman Supporting Vendor

    Messages:
    24,041
    Likes Received:
    8,957
    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2004
    Location:
    818-953-9230
    Interesting theory. Assuming full droop will occur on an ascent, when traction is really at a premium, and maximum torque is often applied, having 'an inch or so' of spline contact hardly seems safe, and will likely lead to the female end of the slip yoke exploding.

    I don't think I'd even attempt to build a linked powertrain using stock length slip yokes.
     
  4. cruisermatt

    cruisermatt ランドクル62! SILVER Star

    Messages:
    6,341
    Media:
    11
    Albums:
    2
    Likes Received:
    3,065
    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2012
    Location:
    Orlando Florida
    I’m up in the middle of the night sleepwalking, so hopefully I don’t butcher this too bad.

    You actually don’t really need a lot of driveshaft slip at all with a linked suspension.

    The axle moves in an arc with the upper and lower links acting as the sides of a parallelogram, so assuming his pinion and transfer case outputs are both near the middle of the vertical separation points on the axle and frame respectively, the driveshaft can become a sort of third line down the middle of that parallelogram. If done correctly that is.

    Theoretically if you had your geometry perfect you could have zero slip yoke at all, but I wouldn’t risk that with compliance in transfer case/motor mounts, suspension bushings etc.

    I’m thinking about it spline engagment more though (which is what the original question really was) and maybe you’re right and my memory is off, but IIRC there’s really only 3-3.5” of spline engagement at full DS compression, that being said I have kinda pushed the boundary on his I think, my last front setup having as little as 3/4” spline engagement at full DS extension ( :eek: not on purpose!) and I didn’t have an issue, but only with 3FE power. OP has triple power.
     
  5. Mace

    Mace rock scientist.. Staff Member s-Moderator

    Messages:
    21,670
    Likes Received:
    2,104
    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2002
    Location:
    Las Vegas

    That shaft is way past where I would consider safe extension.
    You have to remember that there is a taper at each end that is about 1/4"


    I would not have a single problem setting up a linked suspension with stock 40 slip shafts. I am doing it on the Scout build. However, There is nothing specifically about a linked system that allows for a 3" slip, driveshaft. It all depends on how you set up the links.


    Depending on the link end style and the links, you could easily get enough deflection to pull that front end apart and break the female splined portion. Even more so with HP and gearing.

    You will likely be good with a minitruck splined slip joint. Easy peasy to adapt.
     
    cruiseroutfit likes this.
  6. gpfj40

    gpfj40

    Messages:
    259
    Albums:
    1
    Likes Received:
    224
    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2013
    Location:
    Grande Prairie AB
    Thanks for the comments. I’m still on the fence on the front. There will be 400hp in this mini truck so I probably should do it right.

    Side note on the the rear 4 link, the shaft only needs 3/4” slip through the full range. When I built this I was really focused on roll axis and low ride height with a secondary focus on anti squat; pinion range of motion was really an afterthought.
     
    Mace likes this.
  7. ferg

    ferg

    Messages:
    680
    Likes Received:
    626
    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2006
    Location:
    918
    400 hp? You need beefier parts than stock mini stuff.
     
  8. gpfj40

    gpfj40

    Messages:
    259
    Albums:
    1
    Likes Received:
    224
    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2013
    Location:
    Grande Prairie AB
    Using all Land Cruiser shafts, axles and t case. The only mini truck stuff is the frame and cab. There’s not much for rocks around here, just mud and snow.
     
  9. ferg

    ferg

    Messages:
    680
    Likes Received:
    626
    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2006
    Location:
    918
    Still. Cruisers don't have 400hp. You need to go outside the Toyota stuff and go bigger.
     
  10. RustyNailJustin

    RustyNailJustin

    Messages:
    1,687
    Likes Received:
    850
    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2002
    Location:
    Western CO and Southern Oregon
    Its kinda like buying harbor freight tools. Run it to you realize they suck and end up getting Snap-On.

    You will eventually split that female side slip, carry a spare, you will end up changing it in a mud or ice hole and that should make the replacement decision easy.
     
    ferg likes this.
  11. gpfj40

    gpfj40

    Messages:
    259
    Albums:
    1
    Likes Received:
    224
    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2013
    Location:
    Grande Prairie AB
    Thanks for the advise, this is what I’ve been considering using for a long slip, any thoughts on it?
    PowerTrain Industries - 1343-20L
     
  12. 65swb45

    65swb45 Elder Statesman Supporting Vendor

    Messages:
    24,041
    Likes Received:
    8,957
    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2004
    Location:
    818-953-9230
    That looks an aweful lot like the setup @Downey offered as a long travel kit when they marketed their cantilever shackles. Jim said they would handle a V8.
     
  13. peesalot

    peesalot

    Messages:
    2,396
    Likes Received:
    91
    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2004
    Location:
    in a house
    I have a ?, should not the note on the green tape say full stuff ????? & if so then your full stuff mark should be right about the front edge of the green tape.

    It seems, without being there to cycle the suspension that the drive should work if you get the ride height position on the slip set properly.

    Really depends on how much compression you get on the up cycle ??? That Full droop line looks about where you want ride height maybe another 1/2 inch compressed if that leaves enough for full stuff, you really have to set it at full stuff, dont set it at full stop, let the slip have another 1/4 inch or better of compression left after the suspension hits full stuff. then drop it out and see where it ends up.
     
    Last edited: Sep 29, 2018
  14. gpfj40

    gpfj40

    Messages:
    259
    Albums:
    1
    Likes Received:
    224
    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2013
    Location:
    Grande Prairie AB
    I wasn’t clear I guess, full stuff is where the slip yoke is bottomed out on the shaft or inserted all the way, not even allowing for that 1/4” you suggested (completely cover green tape). The droop line illustrates how far the slip will come apart as the axle droops. The pic shows the last point the splines touch, even tho you’d hope it never gets there cause it would come apart. The caliper is attempting to show how much engagement is left at droop. Hope that clairifys things.

    On another note, further to some of the strength concerns noted above, Landcruiser u joints are basically the same size as 1350 joints which are stock 1 ton, and toy slips are 1.3” compared to 1.34” on the long slips Tom Woods sells. This makes me confident it will work as long as there is enough slip engagement, hence the orginal question.

    My only experience in this is a stock slip on the rear of my fj43 with a 4.8 LS which makes 275-285 hp when new (which it isn’t). That slip isn’t far off the spline engagement situation I’m asking about right now although it is harder to measure slip range on leaf sprung suspension. This slip stretchs out as traction increases with compressing suspension while climbing.

    Anyway, I’m at the point, based on this discussion, where I think I could make it work, and carry a spare slip yoke as suggested, but I might as well do it right and order this long slip PowerTrain Industries - 1343-20L. I plan on using 2.5” .83 tube as well.
     
  15. Mace

    Mace rock scientist.. Staff Member s-Moderator

    Messages:
    21,670
    Likes Received:
    2,104
    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2002
    Location:
    Las Vegas
    Just a fyi. Toyota joints are similar in size to 1310 Spicer joints. Not 1350..

    They are however significantly stronger than 1310 joints...
     
    RustyNailJustin likes this.
  16. gpfj40

    gpfj40

    Messages:
    259
    Albums:
    1
    Likes Received:
    224
    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2013
    Location:
    Grande Prairie AB
    Help me understand this please. Internet searches say:

    1310: 3.219 cross, 1.062 cap
    1350: 3.622 cross, 1.188 cap
    Identify Part by Dimension (J300P)

    Here’s what I just measured:
    369E5983-056E-4B60-B957-B8B065444859.jpeg 8C8CA3B5-E582-488A-A8E5-D4FE96F032C6.jpeg

    It looks to me like this cruiser joint has the same cross measurement with a slightly bigger cap as compared to a 1350? Are my google searches wrong?
     
  17. Mace

    Mace rock scientist.. Staff Member s-Moderator

    Messages:
    21,670
    Likes Received:
    2,104
    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2002
    Location:
    Las Vegas
  18. Mace

    Mace rock scientist.. Staff Member s-Moderator

    Messages:
    21,670
    Likes Received:
    2,104
    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2002
    Location:
    Las Vegas
  19. cruiseroutfit

    cruiseroutfit Supporting Vendor Moderator

    Messages:
    8,701
    Likes Received:
    6,402
    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2003
    Location:
    Utah
    On the Toyota LC joints? There are actually quite a few :D

    We stock 5 common aftermarket Japanese joint part numbers that roughly 20 OEM numbers supercede into. The largest being the UJ36030 which is the common "4 speed" joint. It has 32mm caps, 94mm on the cross. The smallest of them (not including the steering and PTO u-joints we stock) is the UJ36011, commonly known as the "3 speed" joint. It has 28.5mm caps, 78.5mm caps.

    As for the slip. The more spline you can have engaged, the better. It's well within reason that a factory slip-joint will work however long-spline ones are so easy to source that it might be worth considering just to take the guess work out of your setup.

    UJ35050.jpg
    Part# UJ35050 - $232.50 - Cruiser Outfitters
     
  20. gpfj40

    gpfj40

    Messages:
    259
    Albums:
    1
    Likes Received:
    224
    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2013
    Location:
    Grande Prairie AB
    Thanks for the great info guys, I knew there is a bunch of different yoke bolt patterns but had no idea about the different u joints. It turns out all of the yokes and shaftes I’ve been collecting are the larger ‘4 speed u joint’. I have already ordered the long slip I linked earlier in this thread because it is the same larger u joint.

    719423F9-0D73-48D4-A876-F67F7FE126DD.jpeg
     
  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.