How good is the built-in navigation / media interface (1 Viewer)

[greynolds]

For a number of reasons, I'm considering trading in my 2017 Mercedes G63 for something less expensive to own (excise tax, insurance, parts, maintenance, etc.) so I can focus on putting more money (than I already am) toward retirement which isn't THAT far away.

I think I've narrowed my options down to just a few: a 2020 Land Cruiser (I just can't stomach the front grill on the Lexus LX-570) or a 2020 Nissan Armada / Infiniti QX80. I'm ruling out Land Rover because everything I see suggests that they still don't have quality control issues resolved. And I think I'm ruling out everything else because I can't think of any other manufacturer who makes something I'd be happy with (so I think I've ruled out GM, Ford, Hyundai, Kia, VW, Audi, Porsche, BMW, and other options from Mercedes). If I might be missing something, I'm certainly open to suggestions.

I rented a 2019 Armada on a 2 week vacation last year, so I've got a pretty good idea of what I would be getting into there. The one thing I hated about the Armada was that the built-in navigation / media interface was pretty terrible. But for 2020, they have an updated system that adds Apple CarPlay, so even if the system isn't otherwise improved, I could just use CarPlay for everything. My G63 has CarPlay, so I know I would have no problem using it. Otherwise, the Armada was quite nice. It was comfortable, handled well, got decent gas mileage for what it is (much better than my G63), and had plenty of power driving mountain passes in Colorado.

I previously owned a 2006 LX-470 that I was quite happy with, so overall I know what I'm getting into with a Land Cruiser, even though I don't have any direct experience with the current generation model. In some respects, I wish I had bought a Land Cruiser at the time because I never felt like I actually owned a Land Cruiser (weird, I know...), but new Land Cruisers were extremely hard to find at the time. The one thing that doesn't make the Land Cruiser a slam dunk for me is that Toyota hasn't added Apple CarPlay to it, which means I would need to use the built-in navigation and media controls or rig up a way to use my iPhone for everything and feed the audio through Bluetooth (which I'm assuming works). I would probably go with the Heritage Edition primarily because I don't want the 3rd row seats (I would never use them and don't want them taking up cargo space and blocking the view all the time). I'm sure I can setup a test drive with a local dealer, but I've found in the past that you really don't get a good feel for how it will be to live with the controls until you have the car for a while (I found that out after buying a 2014 Range Rover - the touch screen interface that had to be used for pretty much everything was incredibly frustrating to live with as there were too many menu levels to do simple things). From looking at pictures of the dashboard, it looks like there are buttons/knobs for the basics like adjusting the heat, adjusting the heated seats, and so on.

How good/bad are the rest of the navigation/media controls to use day to day?

 

[CharlieS]

The infotainment is crap. If you are buying a vehicle only based on infotainment, keep looking. There are a lot of other great reasons to buy a land cruiser. The infotainment is not one of them. Because it is so tightly integrated, there are no (good) aftermarket options.

Unsolicited commentary: having lived in Mass for a while, excise tax is complete BS. Paying tax every year on the value of your vehicle. Such a stupid concept.

 

[LBridges]

I'd say about typical for a now outdated OEM system. It's still the same unit used from back when few if any had Carplay or Android Auto interfaces. My findings:

Navigation:
Things like auto restart route guidance after you stop for gas, sleep for a night etc. works well.
A bit weird was how it had me get off and back on the Interstate going through a city, but it really was routing me around stopped traffic.
Biggest frustration (for me) vice using Waze or whatever is having to be at a stop to input a changed address.

Climate controls:
Most items are really easy to adjust - except manual selection of an alternate air flow path, e.g., floor to dash outlets. This requires extra steps through the media system.

Bluetooth:
I don't use Apple phone, but on Samsung and Google Android devices Bluetooth has been flawless in streaming music, playing back text messages, etc. I have never run any voice recognition patterns for the truck, but using my voice to dial telephone numbers is sometimes a hit or miss depending on how quickly I speak and which way my head is facing.

 

[greynolds]

The infotainment is crap. If you are buying a vehicle only based on infotainment, keep looking. There are a lot of other great reasons to buy a land cruiser. The infotainment is not one of them. Because it is so tightly integrated, there are no (good) aftermarket options.

Infotainment definitely isn't the only factor, but it is important as it's something that will get used a lot and I don't want to get myself in a situation where I want to get rid of the vehicle in 6 months or a few years because I just can't live with the infotainment controls. There a ton of other factors in favor of the Land Cruiser - things like durability, reliability, aftermarket support, and so on. But the Nissan is no slouch in the durability and reliability categories, from what I've seen so far - it's essentially the US market version of the current Patrol.

Unsolicited commentary: having lived in Mass for a while, excise tax is complete BS. Paying tax every year on the value of your vehicle. Such a stupid concept.

Sure is, but I'm stuck with it unless I move which is unlikely at this point. But most states get taxes out of people one way or another.

 

[rusty87]

I have seen 200 series LCs at rental car places before. It might be worth searching your area for one to rent, especially the smaller organizations.

 

[Madtiger]

IF you don’t care about Apple CarPlay or Android Auto, then i think that LC’s infotainment is actually pretty good.

JBL sound system is actually very good...clear, good separation, and good bass (for a stock system). I connect my iPhone via USB and everything works as advertised. Hey Siri works great!

I love that the infotainment is divided in 3 clear sections...NAVI stuff up top, AC controls middle, and Audio at bottom. I don’t like the newer cars where they combine all those things into one unit...and then have menus on top of menus.

 

[CharlieS]

It works fine for the era which it was designed. It is not up to modern infotainment standards. Anything else is just fooling ourselves.

There a reason people call it Taxachusetts. 'nuff said.

 

[mcgaskins]

The infotainment on a 2020 Land Cruiser is outdated even for a 10 year old vehicle - there is no getting around that. The maps are awful, the touchscreen is slow to respond, and it's not high resolution at all, ESPECIALLY when you compare it to anything at its price point. I definitely suggest going to drive one and taking some time to mess around with the infotainment. It is not as bad as the 16+ LX570 however which is likely the worst system put in any new vehicle at any price point. All that said, does it even really matter? Unless we're talking Tesla or the very latest from the German brands, all infotainment systems suck compared to our phones and tablets. While I wish the 200 had a more modern interface, it is still a great vehicle and most are able to overlook it due to the other strengths, and one upside is I don't ever recall seeing a failure with the 200 infotainment screen.

 

[greynolds]

The infotainment on a 2020 Land Cruiser is outdated even for a 10 year old vehicle - there is no getting around that. The maps are awful, the touchscreen is slow to respond, and it's not high resolution at all, ESPECIALLY when you compare it to anything at its price point. I definitely suggest going to drive one and taking some time to mess around with the infotainment. It is not as bad as the 16+ LX570 however which is likely the worst system put in any new vehicle at any price point. All that said, does it even really matter? Unless we're talking Tesla or the very latest from the German brands, all infotainment systems suck compared to our phones and tablets. While I wish the 200 had a more modern interface, it is still a great vehicle and most are able to overlook it due to the other strengths, and one upside is I don't ever recall seeing a failure with the 200 infotainment screen.

Why it matters is because having CarPlay / Android Auto largely makes up for deficiencies in infotainment systems. So the fact that the Land Cruiser doesn't have these yet, is an important consideration (at least, for me). The very latest infotainment from Mercedes is actually pretty good. There's definitely room for improvement, but it's not at all hard to live with and one can switch over to CarPlay / Android for additional options or better navigation functionality. One can obviously find a way to mount an iPhone and tether it to the infotainment system, but that ends up being somewhat kludgy and just shouldn't be necessary at this price level, especially when there are lots of far less expensive cars that do have CarPlay, including most of the rest of Toyota's lineup at this point.

I have considered the Sequoia, but I not thrilled with how the 3rd row seats are setup as the cargo space isn't nice and flat. It looks like a company named Goose Gear sells a replacement floor that allows removal of the seats and replaces them with a perfectly flat floor. Perhaps this is worth considering as an option as I've heard pretty positive reviews of the Sequoia overall.

One other big advantage to the Land Cruiser over the Armada is online forum support. This forum is extremely active and people are usually very helpful, based on prior experience when I had my LX-470 and the amount of feedback I've received so far to this post suggests that not much has changed here. For the Armada, the few forums that exist are pretty devoid of activity. So thanks for the feedback, everyone - please keep it coming if there are other viewpoints or more "I agrees" one way or the other. I also won't be making a blind purchase, so before I make any decisions, I'll be going for a few test drives. It's been about a year since I drove the 2019 Armada and I would want to try out the new infotainment controls before buying. I've never even sat in a current generation Land Cruiser or Sequoia. So I would want to spend some time in each before making a choice.

 

[CharlieS]

You aren't going to need much support on a 2020 Heritage unless you get a lemon, in which case your dealer is your buddy. Very little goes wrong on these rigs for a good long time. If you swap out vehicles every couple of years, the odds of you ever seeing anything crop up that needs forum support are pretty low. If you want to modify your brand new land cruiser, you'll find lots of support here. Seems like that's all people with the newer ones are posting about. We'll that and rims, tires, ceramic coatings, and tint. .

I didn't have anything go wrong on my '13 until 99,998 miles, and even that was just a module (fuel pump ECU) that finally gave up the ghost. Other than that, it's just oil changes, brakes, rotors, scheduled maintenance and tires.

 

[greynolds]

You aren't going to need much support on a 2020 Heritage unless you get a lemon, in which case your dealer is your buddy. Very little goes wrong on these rigs for a good long time. If you swap out vehicles every couple of years, the odds of you ever seeing anything crop up that needs forum support are pretty low. If you want to modify your brand new land cruiser, you'll find lots of support here. Seems like that's all people with the newer ones are posting about. We'll that and rims, tires, ceramic coatings, and tint. .

I didn't have anything go wrong on my '13 until 99,998 miles, and even that was just a module (fuel pump ECU) that finally gave up the ghost. Other than that, it's just oil changes, brakes, rotors, scheduled maintenance and tires.

This is one of the reasons I'm considering the Land Cruiser - they're pretty much literally bullet proof. Realistically, I wouldn't do much for mods beyond installing more capable tires (for better winter capability and for pretty mild off road duty), but it's nice having forum support like this when desired or needed.

 

[TeCKis300]

A similar discussion was had here in regards to the media interface - Close to buying a new 200 LC. Asking for thoughts and comments on my 2 concerns..

My take on the media interface is that it can be sidestepped, and perhaps even improved upon, making it not an issue in my mind. Copied from the above thread:

1) Any car, short of a Tesla, is going to have electronics that simply won't keep up with the pace of technology. Carplay may extend the usable life some years, but even that will feel outdated/slow in in time. Plus the MFD is single context, unlike some vehicles that have split displays so switching back and forth is a PITA. Sidestep the whole built in multi-function display (MFD) issue. Don't rely on it as your technology portal. Use your phone directly by mounting it up high next to the MFD, connecting to your vehicle with BT for its audio functions. Your phone will always be the best upgraded, fast, and intuitive interface. I have no problem with even my '09 LX used in this way, and I'm a self professed technology junkie.

This is an LX, but I've seen owners of LCs do the same with magnet mounts on the vents. Super easy one handed on and off. Tip is to use 2x and it won't budge even in the harshest of off-road.

 

[Sandroad]

Entune and the associated navigation is silly bad. I don't use it all. For trips, I use the magnets on my iPad Pro cover flipped up over the dash to hold it in place over the factory screen and enjoy full functions, including always updated Google maps. The photo below doesn't do justice to how good the setup looks in real life. There is of course a cost to the unlimited cell data required, but it's worth every penny for the fantastic utility of the iPad. If you place a high value on the infotainment system and don't want to do work-arounds and retrofits, skip the Land Cruiser. The 2020 Sequoia has CarPlay and Android Auto which would make it far more amenable to everyday infotainment use. OEM on the Land Cruiser is always out of date for map data and expensive to update and etc. etc. etc. The sound system is great, so I do BT to the OEM system for audio and use Pandora all the time.

 

[LBridges]

Entune and the associated navigation is silly bad. I don't use it all. For trips, I use the magnets on my iPad Pro cover flipped up over the dash to hold it in place over the factory screen and enjoy full functions, including always updated Google maps. ...

I'm not an Apple user, but I was under the impression that Google Maps needed access to cell data to provide directions. Has that changed in newer versions? If still true and you are too far from a tower, how does the iPad react?

Also, agreed, Entune seriously sucks. Is there a particular reason you hate the nav?

In 2018 the wife and I took a 10k mile road trip in our '17 LC and never once had trouble finding whatever we were looking for. In the 3 years we drove that truck (without an update) the only time we had trouble was when we were looking for a street address in a still under construction housing development. Conversely on a business trip and co-worker and I had to both be running map programs (iPhone and Android) to find our way from the LA Airport to a little place in San Pedro.

Only slightly topic related. My impression is that you have to have cell phone data reception (phone on) for the SOS system in the LC to function. Am I reading that correctly? I think my 2017 only gave 1 year of it for free, but the 2020 model gives 3 years of free access. Anybody ever tried to use it? I never paid in the '17, and think I probably won't for the 2020 when it runs out. That is unless someone has great things to say about it.

 

[bloc]

Entune and the associated navigation is silly bad. I don't use it all. For trips, I use the magnets on my iPad Pro cover flipped up over the dash to hold it in place over the factory screen and enjoy full functions, including always updated Google maps. The photo below doesn't do justice to how good the setup looks in real life. There is of course a cost to the unlimited cell data required, but it's worth every penny for the fantastic utility of the iPad. If you place a high value on the infotainment system and don't want to do work-arounds and retrofits, skip the Land Cruiser. The 2020 Sequoia has CarPlay and Android Auto which would make it far more amenable to everyday infotainment use. OEM on the Land Cruiser is always out of date for map data and expensive to update and etc. etc. etc. The sound system is great, so I do BT to the OEM system for audio and use Pandora all the time.


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You need a cellular capable iPad to get the GPS antenna but do not need a cell plan to use it for mapping/nav. Offline maps can be selected and downloaded ahead of time on wifi in google maps (but not Apple Maps yet) and unless you are talking about a trip through an area where you don’t have the offline maps stored it’ll develop a route easily. This will not display traffic though, as you’d expect. If on the road and need traffic or something more up to date just enable the wireless hotspot on your phone and the iPad can pull it that way.

I’ve been using this strategy on an iPad mini in my Mercedes for a year now and it works extremely well. I just bring the mini inside every couple of weeks to let it refresh it’s map database and have no issues. The ONE caveat is without a network connection you need to be more specific on the destination address.. if it isn’t correct it’ll have trouble suggesting the text you need for offline maps to query. If it’s something complicated I just use my phone to get the verbatim address. Other things like a random McDonald’s in what ever town you might be driving through or any business name really will all be stored in the database and come up easily.

I'm not an Apple user, but I was under the impression that Google Maps needed access to cell data to provide directions. Has that changed in newer versions? If still true and you are too far from a tower, how does the iPad react?

Also, agreed, Entune seriously sucks. Is there a particular reason you hate the nav?

In 2018 the wife and I took a 10k mile road trip in our '17 LC and never once had trouble finding whatever we were looking for. In the 3 years we drove that truck (without an update) the only time we had trouble was when we were looking for a street address in a still under construction housing development. Conversely on a business trip and co-worker and I had to both be running map programs (iPhone and Android) to find our way from the LA Airport to a little place in San Pedro.

Only slightly topic related. My impression is that you have to have cell phone data reception (phone on) for the SOS system in the LC to function. Am I reading that correctly? I think my 2017 only gave 1 year of it for free, but the 2020 model gives 3 years of free access. Anybody ever tried to use it? I never paid in the '17, and think I probably won't for the 2020 when it runs out. That is unless someone has great things to say about it.

 

[greynolds]

You need a cellular capable iPad to get the GPS antenna but do not need a cell plan to use it for mapping/nav. Offline maps can be selected and downloaded ahead of time on wifi in google maps (but not Apple Maps yet) and unless you are talking about a trip through an area where you don’t have the offline maps stored it’ll develop a route easily. This will not display traffic though, as you’d expect. If on the road and need traffic or something more up to date just enable the wireless hotspot on your phone and the iPad can pull it that way.

I’ve been using this strategy on an iPad mini in my Mercedes for a year now and it works extremely well. I just bring the mini inside every couple of weeks to let it refresh it’s map database and have no issues. The ONE caveat is without a network connection you need to be more specific on the destination address.. if it isn’t correct it’ll have trouble suggesting the text you need for offline maps to query. If it’s something complicated I just use my phone to get the verbatim address. Other things like a random McDonald’s in what ever town you might be driving through or any business name really will all be stored in the database and come up easily.

Yes, using a phone with unlimited data as a hot spot for a tablet works really well and is less expensive than activating an additional SIM card in the tablet. The only potential downside to that approach is if the tablet is "permanently" installed in the car and the car is shared with other people as you would need to keep switching the hot spot pairing (not an issue for me). Definitely agreed on getting the cellular capable iPad for the GPS antenna; it makes the iPad a lot more useful.

The main problem with the offline maps in Google maps is that you can't (easily, at least) download maps for a large region (our vacations are frequently big loops starting and ending at the same airport and going to a series of National Parks over the course of a few weeks) and you obviously need to plan ahead for it (assuming you can't rely on good cell reception). But there are lots of iOS and Android apps, such as Gaia GPS, where you can download maps for the entire country or world if you have enough storage available on your phone. Navigon used to be my go-to offline navigation app on my iPhone and iPad, but they stopped selling and supporting the app a few years ago, so the maps have gotten out of date anywhere there's any active construction going on or anything else has changed. On my last several trips, we haven't run into too many cases where cell reception has been an issue though, and that includes some relatively remote regions between the National Parks out west. Google maps does seem to pre-cache data a bit too, so if you do hit an area where you lose reception for a little while, it usually isn't a big problem especially since those tend to be places where there's only 1 road anyway which makes it a bit more difficult to get lost .

But as someone else mentioned, it's now illegal in MA to touch your phone while you're sitting in the driver's seat on the road (even when stopped at a traffic light). So using the phone or tablet as a replacement for the infotainment system isn't a great option here, unfortunately. It's workable for navigation because you can enter your destination before you leave a parking lot and then generally don't have to touch anything once you get moving. But for things like changing your music choice while driving, it becomes more problematic. Perhaps I should play around with Siri more to see how well it works with the apps I would want to use while driving.

I'm a bit surprised that there aren't more or better aftermarket replacements for the built in infotainment unless the unit was always specific to the Land Cruiser - if it was shared with other Toyota models, there should be an opportunity for sufficient sales. There are companies that make replacement infotainment units for Range Rovers and most Mercedes models (which also work in the G-wagon). Mercedes has actually been pretty good about using the same module in most or all of their cars when the same generation of infotainment is being used, but with Land Rover, I believe the unit is specific to the Range Rover which means it's a relatively low sales volume opportunity. The replacement units typically maintain the ability to control most or all of the original functions while adding missing features (like CarPlay) and improving things like display resolution.

It's sort of funny how the responses range from "there's an infotainment system? Who knew?" to "it's actually pretty nice" to "it's absolutely terrible". Obviously, I need to go sit in one and play around with the system to form my own opinion.

Looking into the Heritage Edition a bit more, I think it would probably make more sense to go with the regular edition.

The big plus for me with the Heritage Edition is that they delete the 3rd row seats. But if the only real downside to removing them yourself is that there are a couple of holes left behind, that's not too big a deal. When I bought my LX-470, one of the first things I did was remove the seats, put them in bags to keep them clean, and stash them somewhere safe for storage. The main negative at the time was that a cargo mat wasn't available without cutouts for the seats. But now there is for the current model, so that's a nice plus.

The Heritage Edition wheels look nice, I think (I haven't seen them in person), but aren't a big deal and could presumably be purchased separately, if desired. The running board deletion might be a bit of a negative as my elderly mom would most likely need them to get in and out. The change in the leather type and more limited color options are both negatives. The Yakima roof rack basket seems like a really lame way to try to make it look more like an expedition vehicle (and I already have one stashed away collecting dust in the garage anyway) - they should have installed a tubular rack like on the Sequioa TRD Pro or not bothered at all IMHO.

Again - thanks for the continued feedback (and for the pointer to the other similar thread - there were some useful tidbits in there).

 

[04UZJ100]

I am genuinely curious as to the appeal of Apple Car Play and Android auto. While absolutely antiquated, the Toyota interface simply works. Music works, navigation works, google maps audio through the speakers work etc.

I will take the touch screen interface in the Cruiser over the 2016+ Lexus touch stick abomination any day of the week.

 

[M1911]

Entune is basically crap. I mount my phone to the dash, use Waze or Google Maps for navigation. I set my destination before I start driving and try to avoid touching my phone while driving.

The music interface on the Entune system isn’t great but it works. Between that and Siri, I can control music without touching my phone.

Sadly, rumor is that the 2021 Land Cruiser is basically unchanged. So we have to wait until at least the 2022 model year before we get CarPlay.

 

[greynolds]

I am genuinely curious as to the appeal of Apple Car Play and Android auto. While absolutely antiquated, the Toyota interface simply works. Music works, navigation works, google maps audio through the speakers work etc.

I will take the touch screen interface in the Cruiser over the 2016+ Lexus touch stick abomination any day of the week.

CarPlay (and I presume Android Auto, though I haven't used it) is admittedly a bit of a mixed bag because of the fact that only certain apps are approved and the user interface is different (more limited, big buttons). BUT it has some distinct advantages:

1) Since it's integrated into the car's controls, it allows (limited) use of the phone while driving in states, such as MA, that have banned using the phone while driving.
2) It's really nice being able to use the screen that's built-in to the dash rather than cobbling together a way to mount your phone or tablet as most solutions involve compromise. Vent mounts block airflow. Windshield mounts can obstruct your view. And so on.
3) It can go a long way toward making up for infotainment systems that have dreadful user interfaces for the built-in apps or really bad navigation systems built-in.

The Mercedes infotainment, for example, is pretty decent overall, so I don't use CarPlay all that often. I can use their iPhone app to send an address from my iPhone to the built-in navigation just before I head out somewhere which means I don't need to enter it using a dial to select each letter and number.

Trying to locate a local dealer with the car and color combo I might be interested in online seems to be a challenge. Toyota's inventory locator doesn't seem to provide a list of dealers who actually have the color combination of interest - when it indicates "exact match" and I check one of the dealer sites that was listed, I'm not finding the exact match (and in some cases those dealer's don't list ANY Land Cruisers or Sequoia's as being in stock regardless of color choice). For some colors, such as the Sequoia Military Green, I would want to see the color in person before going with it. At this point, I think I want to check out the Land Cruiser, Sequoia, Nissan Armada, and the Infiniti QX80 (NOT with 22" wheels though, which likely limits the choices too much) before making a decision. Sticking with my current G63 is an option, but my next vehicle will almost certainly be something else - the base price of the updated model has jumped by about $25K which puts it out of the range I'm willing to spend; what I paid for my 2017 was pretty much right at my limit. One nice thing with the G63 is that there's an option to custom order a vehicle with the exact colors and options that are desired.

 

[Madtiger]

No matter how much we b!tch about lack of CarPlay/Auto on LC 200 series, it won't change the situation. It is set in stone. Done. Not gonna happen. Zero chance. Writing long posts explaining the plus of CarPlay is not gonna change the fact.

If you want a 200 series, then you need to accept that and move on and enjoy the most durable and reliable vehicle on planet Earth.

If lack of CarPlay is troubling and you cannot overlook it, then buy something else (e.g. Sequoia or Mercedes or Land Rover or Infiniti etc) OR wait for 300 series to come out.

QX/Armada, by the way, is a freaking joke! The rear diff is from the minivan-like Pathfinder!!! Yeah, go for it!