How did 80s ride when new and stock? (24 Viewers)

[napir]

I've had my 80 for a long time and I have never been happy with the ride, especially considering they were marketed as a luxury item way back when new. Maybe I'm just getting old but I'm kinda sick of getting my ass kicked by every single expansion joint or speed bump or manhole cover, especially at low speed. What is the combo that can actually absorb and insulate me (and the wife...it's really just the wife who hates it) from all this, while still being able to absorb a hit at higher speed? Right now I've got Dobinsons variable lift springs (2.5" front/1.5" comfort rear), new Tokico shocks (temp, hoping for a real solution), new suspension bushings all around, E-rated 315 KO2s at 32psi. Over the years, I've had full OME suspension, then these Dobinsons with 30/70 valved Fox 2.0s (since blown), and now Dobs with Tokicos...all chasing a good balance of on and off road and never finding it.

I've ridden in Jeepspeed-prepped Cherokees years ago that rode like butter, so I'm not convinced its just because it's a solid axle. I've been in Wranglers that, once you get past them seeming to just want to fall apart, at least seem relatively civil enough around town.

I have a feeling it's because I keep my 80 pretty light and seemingly everything is for loaded up rigs. My 80 is back on DD duty for a while, but still used extensively for camping and off road touring. It gets used a lot, I just don't bring a whole lot of stuff with me and have no armor/winches/roof racks/fridges/toilets/kitchen sinks/3 months of food/etc. My 80 does ride better when it's more loaded but I have no interest in carrying all that all the time and there's gotta be a better way.

I really don't want to get rid of my 80, but I have been looking at 200s casually...I'm just not ready to give up yet. The only thing I haven't really addressed is body mounts, and still may, but I'm also wondering if I'm chasing something that never existed in the first place?

 

[greentruck]

The stock Tokicos are ONLY for a stock height suspension. That could be most of your problem if you're running them on a lifted truck.

 

[jpoole]

Height and spring rate seem likely to be a mismatch for the tokicos in this case which will def. hurt ride quality.

 

[jpoole]

I'll add that geometry hasn't really been mentioned much here but will also be a factor with a lift and is why drop brackets for the front arms can be a good idea. As the front arms angle down bump energy increasingly pushes them back transmitting energy into the frame instead of up with energy going into springs. I imagine this geometry shift is subtle but I don't really know how much or little it may be a factor for the amount of lift involved here.

I'm guessing tire pressure, spring rate too hard for vehicle weight and mismatched shocks with springs/weight are the main factors here.

 

[peacesells63]

I'll add that geometry hasn't really been mentioned much here but will also be a factor with a lift and is why drop brackets for the front arms can be a good idea. As the front arms angle down bump energy increasingly pushes them back transmitting energy into the frame instead of up with energy going into springs. I imagine this geometry shift is subtle but I don't really know how much or little it may be a factor for the amount of lift involved here.

This a big one. Unsprung weight is another big one, its one of the things that makes your truck shake when you hit an expansion joints on the freeway. This gets better if you have properly tuned shocks, which the stockers are definitely not for a heavy wheel/tire combo.

Other than that, e rated tires hurt a lot. BFG's all terrains are also one of the worst riding tires IMO. Kenda klever kr601's are the best riding tires I have found that check all of the boxes. The are night and day better in snow and ice than the bfg, are quieter and have better road manners.

I have a couple stock 80's at my shop and several customers who are on the dobinson stock height springs. These trucks ride and drive best when stock and get dramatically worse with a lift and weight added. The suspension geometry is not great stock and is horrible with a 3" lift. It's amazing they drive as good as they do, because on paper they should not. The front panhard is about 11" shorter than the drag link and ends up at a terrible angle when lifted. The rear lower links and front radius arms end up at a steep angle when lifted, then they are no longer transferring the force of bumps directly into the suspension but rather more directly into the chassis as lift height increases.

On my 80, I have dobinson tapered wire rear heavy springs and j's in front with a 20mm spacer. Ends up about 3" lift. Icon extended length 2.5's (which ride nice, but I don't reccomend) and a 37x17" wheel and tire combo that are 115lbs each. Last year I lengthened the front panhard 9.5" over stock and raised the axle side mount 4.25" while raising the frame side 2". My panhard is as close to flat as possible and within 1.5" of the drag link length. The truck drives exponentially better now with no front sway bar than it did with the stock panhard and sway bar setup. IMO it still drives like crap compared to some fully custom trucks I have built suspension for, but it is light years ahead of any other lifted 80 I have driven both on road and off. The moral of the story is unless you correct the geometry when lifting an 80, it will always drive and ride worse than stock. The only products on the market that correct geometry in a meaningful way are the rear panhard axle side lift brackets and front radius arm frame side drop brackets. Everything else is either snake oil, or for correcting pinion angle or aesthetic geometry like adjustable panhard bars.

If you want to keep the lift, do the rear delta panhard bracket, eimkeith radius arm drop brackets and get custom valved remote reservoir shocks with adjusters from accutune, down south, or a local shop that will do them (I know one in denver). Next time you get new tires, drop load rating or get a softer e rated tire. Otherwise, stock height dobinson springs and 33's or smaller will make a world of difference.

 

[Montana Cruiser]

This a big one. Unsprung weight is another big one, its one of the things that makes your truck shake when you hit an expansion joints on the freeway. This gets better if you have properly tuned shocks, which the stockers are definitely not for a heavy wheel/tire combo.

Other than that, e rated tires hurt a lot. BFG's all terrains are also one of the worst riding tires IMO. Kenda klever kr601's are the best riding tires I have found that check all of the boxes. The are night and day better in snow and ice than the bfg, are quieter and have better road manners.

I have a couple stock 80's at my shop and several customers who are on the dobinson stock height springs. These trucks ride and drive best when stock and get dramatically worse with a lift and weight added. The suspension geometry is not great stock and is horrible with a 3" lift. It's amazing they drive as good as they do, because on paper they should not. The front panhard is about 11" shorter than the drag link and ends up at a terrible angle when lifted. The rear lower links and front radius arms end up at a steep angle when lifted, then they are no longer transferring the force of bumps directly into the suspension but rather more directly into the chassis as lift height increases.

On my 80, I have dobinson tapered wire rear heavy springs and j's in front with a 20mm spacer. Ends up about 3" lift. Icon extended length 2.5's (which ride nice, but I don't reccomend) and a 37x17" wheel and tire combo that are 115lbs each. Last year I lengthened the front panhard 9.5" over stock and raised the axle side mount 4.25" while raising the frame side 2". My panhard is as close to flat as possible and within 1.5" of the drag link length. The truck drives exponentially better now with no front sway bar than it did with the stock panhard and sway bar setup. IMO it still drives like crap compared to some fully custom trucks I have built suspension for, but it is light years ahead of any other lifted 80 I have driven both on road and off. The moral of the story is unless you correct the geometry when lifting an 80, it will always drive and ride worse than stock. The only products on the market that correct geometry in a meaningful way are the rear panhard axle side lift brackets and front radius arm frame side drop brackets. Everything else is either snake oil, or for correcting pinion angle or aesthetic geometry like adjustable panhard bars.

If you want to keep the lift, do the rear delta panhard bracket, eimkeith radius arm drop brackets and get custom valved remote reservoir shocks with adjusters from accutune, down south, or a local shop that will do them (I know one in denver). Next time you get new tires, drop load rating or get a softer e rated tire. Otherwise, stock height dobinson springs and 33's or smaller will make a world of difference.

Good insight here. To clarify your comment on your customers trucks on Dobinson's stock height springs, are you saying those trucks ride well? My understanding is that the Dob stock height actually yield a bit of lift. Maybe it's mild enough that geometry adjustments are not needed? What shocks are these customers using?

 

[mudgudgeon]

Last year I lengthened the front panhard 9.5" over stock and raised the axle side mount 4.25" while raising the frame side 2

Have you posted Pics anywhere?

 

[peacesells63]

Good insight here. To clarify your comment on your customers trucks on Dobinson's stock height springs, are you saying those trucks ride well? My understanding is that the Dob stock height actually yield a bit of lift. Maybe it's mild enough that geometry adjustments are not needed? What shocks are these customers using?

Yes, they ride and drive very well. 2 are on stock shocks, one on the dobinson yellow gas shocks, and I will be doing another one next week that has an OME 2.5" lift. We are going to try the dobinson stock springs out with the ome shocks and see how it is. I would swap them out now, but the shocks are new so we will give it a shot. They generally lift an 80 with original stock saggy springs about 1.5". I would say they are right about .5" lift over non sagged out stock springs. All of these 80's are on stock size tires as well, 2/3 are BFG at's. One is on some goodyear highway tires, it rides noticeably better on the highway but looks like a grandma cruiser.

 

[peacesells63]

Have you posted Pics anywhere?

Yeah, in a few places on mud. Here are a couple

 

[BucketEighty]

If you want to keep the lift, do the rear delta panhard bracket, eimkeith radius arm drop brackets and get custom valved remote reservoir shocks with adjusters from accutune, down south, or a local shop that will do them (I know one in denver). Next time you get new tires, drop load rating or get a softer e rated tire. Otherwise, stock height dobinson springs and 33's or smaller will make a world of difference.

X2 on this. The harsh ride on a lifted 80 is as much due to the suspension geometry changes as the stiffer springs and shocks. I don't think any aftermarket (lift or stock height replacement) springs are as soft as the factory springs, so If you truly want factory plush suspension with a lift you might consider getting OE takeoff springs + spacers and keep the lift height to 2" or less with radius arm drop brackets to match.

I'm on OME stock height replacement springs and shocks and my truck feels plush when fully loaded with people and camping gear, and too stiff when unloaded.

 

[Fattyeighty]

X2 on this. The harsh ride on a lifted 80 is as much due to the suspension geometry changes as the stiffer springs and shocks. I don't think any aftermarket (lift or stock height replacement) springs are as soft as the factory springs, so If you truly want factory plush suspension with a lift you might consider getting OE takeoff springs + spacers and keep the lift height to 2" or less with radius arm drop brackets to match.

I'm on OME stock height replacement springs and shocks and my truck feels plush when fully loaded with people and camping gear, and too stiff when unloaded.

A few King/Dobinson springs are close to OEM spring rate which I believe has not been conclusively verified. Only a thread from a few years ago tested them to around 130? lbs/in.
Note you do not want too soft of a spring as its part of bottom out control. Factory springs + spacers will be constantly on bump stops even with good valved 2.5s as there is simply not enough travel to do it all (i have tried it) Unless you want go to 2.5 bypasses but you lose a bit of low speed compression control (chop/washboard) but completely not worth it

OPs springs sound pretty alright - im on Dobinson c59-269v with a similar setup - no armor etc

Custom valved 2.5 linear piston shocks will completely transform the 80 even with an improper spring rate. Big money but completely worth it

 

[jpoole]

Factory springs + spacers will be constantly on bump stops

Is this because of extra weight from factory or because of how the 80 is being driven, like hitting large bumps at speed jumping or similar? I'm sure that in some contexts "constantly on bump stops" is true but I'm curious about the context you are implying here especially since you are in Kuwait and may do exciting things with your 80 as some other Middle East members have (turbos, dune runs, etc.)...

Obviously in other contexts factory springs with or without spacers will rarely, if ever, be on the bump stops.

 

[Fattyeighty]

Is this because of extra weight from factory or because of how the 80 is being driven, like hitting large bumps at speed jumping or similar? I'm sure that in some contexts "constantly on bump stops" is true but I'm curious about the context you are implying here especially since you are in Kuwait and may do exciting things with your 80 as some other Middle East members have (turbos, dune runs, etc.)...

Obviously in other contexts factory springs with or without spacers will rarely, if ever, be on the bump stops.

Yes should have prefaced it with higher speed desert driving or more aggressive driving offroad in general.
In normal city driving you're absolutely correct it would not be constantly hitting the bump stop unless on larger speed bumps although with factory bump stops it isn't no obvious when they're starting to contact.

 

[Mandrake]

Stock springs are very soft, around 130ish lbs/in

Not to nit pick, but they're actually 170 lb/in.