Help me understand the appeal. (1 Viewer)

[LCH21]

Land Rover/Range Rover is one I hear this about but I haven't done much research other than watching Scotty rip them a few times when I have made it through his videos...

I had an '87 Range Rover that was bought new. It was wonderful to drive, comfortable, would go anywhere I pointed it, but: It went through four or five power steering pumps / boxes, 2 front axle rebuilds, air conditioner issues, numerous electrical gremlins nobody could isolate - had to put a battery disconnect to keep the battery from going flat, leaky sunroof who's motor died so it would not operate, headliner came down, dash cracked, fuel pump issues, radio died, several water pumps and finally ate a valve. All in less than 200K miles. Donated it. Then, got a new '97 Jeep Grand Cherokee Laredo V8 with the Up-Country suspension. Worse than the Range Rover.

 

[LexGx]

I have mainly been trying to find data to know if I should take the leap for an LC/LX or buy something with way less mileage that may not be nearly as awesome of a truck as an LC/LX but in the same price range as some of the 10 year old LCs with higher mileage that are more in my $30k budget range. Not all of the numbers I shared came from iseecars but if you have a source that provides more valid data please share it. I have been racking my brain since letting that 2013 slip away, but at the same time knowing I did it because of the sense of risk I was having about it all.

I recently purchased a 13 with 200k and it's always scary to throw 20k+ at a car with those kinda miles but the Lc/Lx is basically the only car I would ever pull the trigger on with those miles at that price point. In my opinion the data points are not as important to me because they only sold about 3k units a year and out of those many were purchased by older folks not driving much or parents driving from the house to school to practice and not really putting many miles on them at all. Also out of only 3k units a year surely some were totaled out as well. Toyotas are incredibly reliable and the LC is placed on an even higher level within that family. Most who own them aren't even on this forum yet know of their legendary status and their retained value world wide speaks volumes to me. No other vehicles out there hold value at such high miles as these. Surely in a few more years it'll be like the 100 series and you'll see them with 300-400k miles on them.
If the miles vs price dilemma will eat away at you I'd definitely not purchase and move on to another platform that could be obtained with less miles for the same price.

 

[AnyMal]

Ive been guided a few times in various directions and manners in this thread and as its OP, let me paraphrase my current position.

1) There is nothing on the market quiet like an overbuilt, nearly $100k, conservative engineering platform, outdated to the point of true time tested dependability as the Toyota LC or Lexus LX. In my mind, the LC never made sense to begin with, but the LX kind of did? We see what happened to LC in the US now that its gone, being a victim of its price point mainly and the LX now clawing further upmarket. Its a true unicorn in its own accord, and king of its domain, and that takes us two point 2.

2) The hype is extra fing real. The amount of times ive read on this forum and elsewhere the fanfare surrounding the platform, to me, means i should have zero quality issues, design oversights, or even known failure points. But even here, where LC love is unrivaled, myself being guilty as well, we have repeated examples disproving the rhetoric. I still say “its a tank” when people ask me about my LX with the frequent “thats a lexus!!?!!”, but its really not. Tanks dont have plastic oil housings that crack for example (dont nitpick if they actyally do please), despite the LCs popularity in Ukraine currently lol. We even had a thread a while back where one of the production savvy insider mods dispelled the myth that we have our own special fairy dust assembly lines. That shocked everyone reading including me who had believed it for years.

3) The truck is plentiful in its features, and robust, but need’s maintenance like everything else. For example if you miss the driveline grease, it’ll start thunking pretty quick. Theres a lot more to manage down there in a true 4x4 so keep that in mind. Its not high maintenance, but its def not low maintenance either. Now if it were a POS rav4, id never do anything but oil, so we tend as a community to do things early and often to milk out or money/miles worth. And honestly also just out of love, like in my case, however belabored the relationship, I’m actually hyper concerned ill never be able to replace it. Where will i get a new NA port injected V8 body on frame SUV with this level of kit outside a G which i wont drop the coin on after two LXs? But, being a japan made T / L, parts aren’t cheap either. Specially if you have an actually rare failure like electronics/AHC. Or common incidental like windshield. Keep that in mind when buying a really old example. The badge may lead you to believe every bit is economically oriented underneath the skin, but its really not, due to its position regarding point 1.

4) Even if we accept the reality, faults, and upkeep, I wouldn’t hesitate to recommend anyone to jump in. Even given the dog brakes, and dog transmission map. That can all be addressed and you are in the right place. Now at what point of the lifespan you decide to go is really a matter of what you want to do with the truck. A certified sequioa / 4R or something will probably be more bang for the buck if you are driving family to school and commuting to work. But an LC they are not and tbh 4R is so played out i could barf. So if not actually using the truck in its element, which I have yet to do myself, you may find yourself wondering why you are not in something cheaper, more practical and more efficient and more fun (my bad). To buy an old one and build it and beat it up? Nothing better. The resale value being what it is though, against a high starting price point new will mean that the later you buy in, the more that value proposition is potentially diminished. The earlier the better IMO, so you can enjoy the younger years and miraculously have equity in your vehicle, something i didnt even know was possible until i “discovered” the platform. But the double edge here is you wont want to beat on your nice and new 200! I also wouldnt put all my eggs in a any 3rd or 4th owner LC or LX going 500k without issue necessarily, but if there is one truck that bet is the safest in, its the LC. Plus, you have all these forum losers to rely on should anything go wrong. Lol.

I would say to anyone go for it, but proceed without the rose glasses, or at least understand youre at the 200 series purchase because there literally is no comparison shop for it. And being that you will probably be dedicated to its success, do not settle until you find the right grandma specimen in the color you want. I personally don’t think a 150k miles is a lot, but don’t expect perfection is all im saying. If you are really sweating it, ask yourself if an engine or transmission replacement would be a complete deal breaker for you worst case. In those cases, i assure you the body and frame wont be keeping you from the 500k target once critical drivetrain piece is replaced. It can still make sense. But if you are like me, and hate a thousand little details that are not show stoppers, id buy a newer one, like i did. Still a hell of deal. And if you are rich like 4UZJ or Tex68, buy 4 new and laugh for the rest of your life at the turbo s***boxes and evs in production.

Also, I realize every single sentence was a run-on, but i kinda like it that way. Sorry! And sorry for typos, hastily written on iphone with autocorrect disabled…

 

[Madtiger]

The question is……….for those LX owners specifically, would u buy LX again?

 

[AnyMal]

The question is……….for those LX owners specifically, would u buy LX again?

Once you real wood grain grip, you never go back… Do i need to post a lil flip freestyle for you?

But if you can convince me im as confident with a 3” lift on 34s on the highway at 85mph in an LC as i am in my speed lowered LX? Maybe.

 

[FredLX]

The question is……….for those LX owners specifically, would u buy LX again?

Yes. I have a 2019, if my wife will drive one, I’ll buy another. The maintenance discussion is spot on…however good, it ain’t cheap! To me , it’s worth it.

 

[larsensa]

I have been a bit locked in the 2013-2015 in both LC/LX in my searches. Mostly looking at Black/Black but I like the Green that was up for sale here recently too. There are quite a few at the moment but I need to be willing to risk more cashola if I want to get in the lower mile club. This all all started when our van determined we needed a new vehicular unit for us... Rather than instantly look for replacement vans I started looking at 3 row SUVS. The first test drive was a 2014 Sequoia which I actually liked minus it feeling like a bus. This was followed by finding a dealership in the Chicagoland area that had a GX and an LC that I tried out and another nearby with an LX. GX was out fast. But then the LC/LX comparison began and there are some features on the LX I actually prefer. Remote start, key and button lift rear hatch, the rear seat and 3rd row electric seat to name a few. Lookwise, I am struggling on which I like best which is another reason I lost the LC, I wasn't able to make up my mind on which i prefer and the mileage issue as well. I test drove 2011 LXs and one had a broken AHC system at the Toyota dealer and was being sold AS-IS so I passed. The other seems to have some sort of transmission issue so I passed on it too.

I had been more focused on the new Broncos prior to our van going out thinking I would eventually go that direction as I had a 75 Bronco in high school years and year ago and the new Bronco is the first truck, I have been excited about since that time. The prices are crazy on them at the moment for what you get. I had a dealer add $10k to the price when we sat down to talk numbers after I test drove it, calling it a market price adjustment. I had heard this was going on and was able to confirm it first hand. It really rubbed me the wrong way and put a bad taste in my mouth about Ford.
We will see where it all goes in the end but if it is an LX or LC, I am sure I will be showing up here. I appreciate all the info you guys share and feedback to my first post after recently joining mud.

 

[Tex68w]

I have been a bit locked in the 2013-2015 in both LC/LX in my searches. Mostly looking at Black/Black but I like the Green that was up for sale here recently too. There are quite a few at the moment but I need to be willing to risk more cashola if I want to get in the lower mile club. This all all started when our van determined we needed a new vehicular unit for us... Rather than instantly look for replacement vans I started looking at 3 row SUVS. The first test drive was a 2014 Sequoia which I actually liked minus it feeling like a bus. This was followed by finding a dealership in the Chicagoland area that had a GX and an LC that I tried out and another nearby with an LX. GX was out fast. But then the LC/LX comparison began and there are some features on the LX I actually prefer. Remote start, key and button lift rear hatch, the rear seat and 3rd row electric seat to name a few. Lookwise, I am struggling on which I like best which is another reason I lost the LC, I wasn't able to make up my mind on which i prefer and the mileage issue as well. I test drove 2011 LXs and one had a broken AHC system at the Toyota dealer and was being sold AS-IS so I passed. The other seems to have some sort of transmission issue so I passed on it too.

I had been more focused on the new Broncos prior to our van going out thinking I would eventually go that direction as I had a 75 Bronco in high school years and year ago and the new Bronco is the first truck, I have been excited about since that time. The prices are crazy on them at the moment for what you get. I had a dealer add $10k to the price when we sat down to talk numbers after I test drove it, calling it a market price adjustment. I had heard this was going on and was able to confirm it first hand. It really rubbed me the wrong way and put a bad taste in my mouth about Ford.
We will see where it all goes in the end but if it is an LX or LC, I am sure I will be showing up here. I appreciate all the info you guys share and feedback to my first post after recently joining mud.

Ford isn’t the only make playing the market adjustment game, have you ever looked at buying anything ‘TRD Pro’ west of Texas? It’s not unusual to see $20-25K markups, madness but apparently there are idiots out there that are paying it so it continues.

My BIL has a 4-door hard top Wildtrack Bronco loaded out, it’s nice and fun and a great alternative to a Jeep but it’s not worth $65K in my opinion. I had a frame off resto-mod ‘72 Bronco and a ‘95 in high school so I am a fan but I am not blown away for the price and certainly not for the above market madness that has been going on since they came out. I’m not saying we won’t have one some day because it’s possible as my wife likes them but I’m in no rush to get one at current prices.

Get a LC/LX and have fun, odds are heavily in your favor that you won’t regret it.

 

[bigezvol]

The question is……….for those LX owners specifically, would u buy LX again?

Most definitely

 

[a200]

production savvy insider mods dispelled the myth that we have our own special fairy dust assembly lines.

Link?

 

[arock]

I have been shopping for a full size-ish/full size suv for the past 6 months and after doing research on the various options out there (LC/LX, Tahoe/Yukon, Expedition/Navigator, QX80, Land Rover/Range Rover, etc.) I have pretty much landed on purchasing a LX (if I can ever find a good deal on one). Why? It honestly makes me the least nervous about buying without a warranty and I am not intimidated with the thoughts of working on it myself for most repairs. Are they perfect? Not at all, but nothing is. The number of common problems on the 200 series LC/LX are 1/8 the number of common problems of most of the other full size suv's out there. The only other vehicle I am cross shopping with the LX at this point is the Expedition/Navigator but only with a CPO warranty since issues on those seem to be hit or miss but nothing is inexpensive or easy to fix and working on the 3.5 eco boost/10 speed tranmission does not look like fun, lol.

 

[Madtiger]

I thought that our LC/LX are made in special fairy dust factory??

 

[AnyMal]

Link?

Traveling this weekend but i will try and dig for you later. It was a couple years ago maybe? @bloc was there and a few other regulars. Tagged since he is v organized in forum links and bookmarks. It was a good tangent moment.

But yeah, the gist of the line was they could pop a cruiser out, in between several other products, and unfortunately @Madtiger no fairy dust.

The kernel of truth is that they are built at the “best” plants, and only in Japan by company oldheads. Except the guy who put my LX together… he must have been drunk or disgruntled apparently lol

 

[bloc]

Traveling this weekend but i will try and dig for you later. It was a couple years ago maybe? @bloc was there and a few other regulars. Tagged since he is v organized in forum links and bookmarks. It was a good tangent moment.

But yeah, the gist of the line was they could pop a cruiser out, in between several other products, and unfortunately @Madtiger no fairy dust.

The kernel of truth is that they are built at the “best” plants, and only in Japan by company oldheads. Except the guy who put my LX together… he must have been drunk or disgruntled apparently lol

Sounds like @OGBeno

 

[TeCKis300]

Traveling this weekend but i will try and dig for you later. It was a couple years ago maybe? @bloc was there and a few other regulars. Tagged since he is v organized in forum links and bookmarks. It was a good tangent moment.

But yeah, the gist of the line was they could pop a cruiser out, in between several other products, and unfortunately @Madtiger no fairy dust.

The kernel of truth is that they are built at the “best” plants, and only in Japan by company oldheads. Except the guy who put my LX together… he must have been drunk or disgruntled apparently lol

The fairy dust is often not one specific thing you can point to on the production line. But it surely is there, baked in up front. Because it's one of those things that can't be bolted on after the fact. Quality starts from the beginning with leadership embracing and emphasizing product quality. Designing with more margin. Planning for quality with extra validation phases. Higher standards for defect rates. It becomes cultural across the board with every hand that participates in the creating the product.

All that costs money. Sometimes it's underappreciated or undervalued by consumers. I want to say that may be most consumers in the US.

In parts of the world where that quality and durability readily shines through like the middle east and Australia, it's unmistakable how the LC stands alone.

 

[Omega3651]

I read all the hype and watched most of the videos opining about the Land Cruiser's 'legendary' status.
I lurked on this forum for years before I bought my 21 HE.
Now I have my own personal experience and can therefore speak from a more factual basis.
I purchased my 21 HE with 5 miles on it and proceeded to put 95K miles on it in 2 years.
The LC 'hype' is ABSOLUTELY real in my case.
The extended warranty wasn't needed and outside of regular maintenance, tires and its prodigious appetite for gasoline, the LC has been the epitome of reliability.
95K miles and still no rattles or squeaks, starts every time and is still butter smooth. Almost zero wear on the driver seat and everything works as designed.
The only other vehicle I have purchased with that kind of reliability was my 2016 4Runner TRD PRO. 150K miles on that and the only thing outside of scheduled maintenance was to replace the original brakes at 145K miles.

Simply stated-in my real world experience, both these Toyota BOF SUVs have earned their legendary reputation.

Its not just a car. it's a Land Cruiser. I can assure you that the stories you've heard about this vehicle, if nothing else, have been watered down.

 

[Tex68w]

I read all the hype and watched most of the videos opining about the Land Cruiser's 'legendary' status.
I lurked on this forum for years before I bought my 21 HE.
Now I have my own personal experience and can therefore speak from a more factual basis.
I purchased my 21 HE with 5 miles on it and proceeded to put 95K miles on it in 2 years.
The LC 'hype' is ABSOLUTELY real in my case.
The extended warranty wasn't needed and outside of regular maintenance, tires and its prodigious appetite for gasoline, the LC has been the epitome of reliability.
95K miles and still no rattles or squeaks, starts every time and is still butter smooth. Almost zero wear on the driver seat and everything works as designed.
The only other vehicle I have purchased with that kind of reliability was my 2016 4Runner TRD PRO. 150K miles on that and the only thing outside of scheduled maintenance was to replace the original brakes at 145K miles.

Simply stated-in my real world experience, both these Toyota BOF SUVs have earned their legendary reputation.

Its not just a car. it's a Land Cruiser. I can assure you that the stories you've heard about this vehicle, if nothing else, have been watered down.

You put some crazy miles on yours haha.

 

[AnyMal]

The fairy dust is often not one specific thing you can point to on the production line. But it surely is there, baked in up front. Because it's one of those things that can't be bolted on after the fact. Quality starts from the beginning with leadership embracing and emphasizing product quality. Designing with more margin. Planning for quality with extra validation phases. Higher standards for defect rates. It becomes cultural across the board with every hand that participates in the creating the product.

All that costs money. Sometimes it's underappreciated or undervalued by consumers. I want to say that may be most consumers in the US.

In parts of the world where that quality and durability readily shines through like the middle east and Australia, it's unmistakable how the LC stands alone.

Yeah, its more a soft quality. The LC is kinda like Toyotas LFA. Because also the supra def was not it. And you can tell they care deeply about the badge. I wonder what the actual margin was on a USA 200 though.

 

[AnyMal]

I read all the hype and watched most of the videos opining about the Land Cruiser's 'legendary' status.
I lurked on this forum for years before I bought my 21 HE.
Now I have my own personal experience and can therefore speak from a more factual basis.
I purchased my 21 HE with 5 miles on it and proceeded to put 95K miles on it in 2 years.
The LC 'hype' is ABSOLUTELY real in my case.
The extended warranty wasn't needed and outside of regular maintenance, tires and its prodigious appetite for gasoline, the LC has been the epitome of reliability.
95K miles and still no rattles or squeaks, starts every time and is still butter smooth. Almost zero wear on the driver seat and everything works as designed.
The only other vehicle I have purchased with that kind of reliability was my 2016 4Runner TRD PRO. 150K miles on that and the only thing outside of scheduled maintenance was to replace the original brakes at 145K miles.

Simply stated-in my real world experience, both these Toyota BOF SUVs have earned their legendary reputation.

Its not just a car. it's a Land Cruiser. I can assure you that the stories you've heard about this vehicle, if nothing else, have been watered down.

Thats fair enough for me! But you are just crossing the magic line now where things need to get replaced, and your model year clears the radiator flaw.

The first 100k was never the “hype” part, its the 300-500k “without issue” LIE that im more or less harping on.

Either way hell of a start for your ‘21! Id like you to keep racking those miles up for us and report. At this pace you’ll be the highest milage “new purchase” on here i think?

Keep us posted for sure. Kindly let me know what routine maint. youve done, and what kind of PM you are planning if any?

 

[Omega3651]

Thats fair enough for me! But you are just crossing the magic line now where things need to get replaced, and your model year clears the radiator flaw.

The first 100k was never the “hype” part, its the 300-500k “without issue” LIE that im more or less harping on.

Either way hell of a start for your ‘21! Id like you to keep racking those miles up for us and report. At this pace you’ll be the highest milage “new purchase” on here i think?

Keep us posted for sure. Kindly let me know what routine maint. youve done, and what kind of PM you are planning if any?

Agreed to a point.
I passed the 100K mark on my 16 4Runner and only replaced brakes at 145K and I put 30K on that in the first year of ownership as a brand new purchase.
My LC is still on all original components except tires, still on original brakes as well. All fluids have been changed and I have the next major service of plugs, transmission and diff fluids in the next week or so. Coolant and PS fluid already done.
Looking at the build quality and overall strength of the individual materials, the LC materials are significantly more robust than the 4Runner.
If you're honest and pay attention to vehicles on the road, I see more 3rd GEN 4Runners driving 20 years later than I do many other vehicles in the similar age group.
Same with 80 series LCs 30 years after the fact. Lots of 100s I see on the highways daily.
What I don't see a lot of is 20 and 30 year old anything in similar quantities daily driving on the road or still driving a robust used market price like I see with older Toyota BOF SUVs.
Again-this isn't conjecture for me, this is my direct ownership experience. In 6 years I have driven 240K miles on two different Toyota SUVs.
Do agree with you as to what 200-300K may look like, I'm curious as well to see what major components if any fail.
I'll let you know in a year or two.