[tonkota]

Here is what we now know:

Currently the 2F and 3F-E camshaft carry the same Toyota part number.

This 1988 new features booklet (page 18 of the PDF, 122 of the booklet) states that the cams are different.

Mark W uses Delta Camshaft Part number KC859 with 262* advertised duration.

I also use this cam from Delta.

EDIT: I'll try to keep the valuable links up here.

Suppliers:
Delta Camshaft
ISKY Racing Cams
Rockauto - Sealed Power brand
Specter Off-Road
Man-a-Fre
Auto Parts Giant - ITM, Melling, Sealed Power brands
Wade Camshafts in Australia
Downey Off-Road Torquer Cam
JT Outfitters
D. Elign Cams - Super Lobes

Great Camshaft Discussions:
Big Gay 2F Build Tech - Cam discussion starts about post #28
Aftermarket Performance 2F Cams
Things I learned (cam talk with pictures)


Computer Modification:
JET Performance
JET Vehicle form

[FJ40Jim]

The 3F & 2F camshaft profiles are exactly the same. The only difference is the 3F cam is 5* advanced.
Advancing the cam timing brings torque earlier, helping to make up for the torque that was lost when the crank was destroked.

[RockDoc]

So the advancement is in the way the camshaft and drive gear mate-up? (i.e. It is the drive gear that is different rather than the camshaft?)

[matt.mcinnes]

Originally Posted by RockDoc

So the advancement is in the way the camshaft and drive gear mate-up? (i.e. It is the drive gear that is different rather than the camshaft?)

From what I understand you just twist the Dizzy

My Cam specs

[RockDoc]

Originally Posted by matt.mcinnes

From what I understand you just twist the Dizzy

If it was spark timing we were talking about.

[MiniPigg]

I am curious what the power band will look like between the stock 3FE cam and this KC859 cam. Are we losing any power or gaining it?

[matt.mcinnes]

Originally Posted by MiniPigg

I am curious what the power band will look like between the stock 3FE cam and this KC859 cam. Are we losing any power or gaining it?

Is that cam for torque or hp?

[RockDoc]

Good thread on F block camshaft stuff.

[Dave-T]

Had my cam reground by Delta. Specs are below. Great improvement on top and bottom end IF combined with header, shaved head, engine balance etc. By itself I don't think you would gain much.

[FJ40Jim]

Originally Posted by RockDoc

So the advancement is in the way the camshaft and drive gear mate-up? (i.e. It is the drive gear that is different rather than the camshaft?)

The change in cam timing is accomplished by moving the woodruff key 2.5* on the snout of the cam.

[tonkota]

Interesting.

Jim, just out of curiosity, what cams have you run now or in the past?

If the profiles of the 2F and the 3F-E cam are the same, but the 3F-E cam is advanced 5*, why does Toyota carry only one camshaft? Which one is it? Does 5* make that much of a difference to matter?

I'm going with the Delta Camshaft cam. I'm anxious to feel the difference it makes in the 2F-E.

[MiniPigg]

Originally Posted by tonkota

Interesting.

Jim, just out of curiosity, what cams have you run now or in the past?

If the profiles of the 2F and the 3F-E cam are the same, but the 3F-E cam is advanced 5*, why does Toyota carry only one camshaft? Which one is it? Does 5* make that much of a difference to matter?

I'm going with the Delta Camshaft cam. I'm anxious to feel the difference it makes in the 2F-E.

Im also wondering if the KC859 cam is basically a reground spec cam and are there power gains?

Delta cams said they would do a custom cam as well.... so if that is the case and it doesnt cost much more what would be the best spec to go with for the 2FE?

[RockDoc]

Originally Posted by RockDoc

Good thread on F block camshaft stuff.

Take a peak at this thread if you haven't already. Lots of good info from Mark W and others. Mark hasn't been on Mud for a while, but he has a hell of a lot of experience making strong F-blocks.

[Trollhole]

Originally Posted by FJ40Jim

The change in cam timing is accomplished by moving the woodruff key 2.5* on the snout of the cam.

Jim do you know where to source the cam gear that is solid? I tried Toyota but all I got was the one with the isolator.


Also some good reading on cams.

http://forum.ih8mud.com/40-55-series...uild-tech.html

starts around post 28.

If I had to do it over again I would have gone with the Delta cam over the Billet cam. Just because it cost so much more.

[FJ40Jim]

Originally Posted by tonkota

Jim, just out of curiosity, what cams have you run now or in the past?

Only the Toyota OEM, aftermarket billet and MAF RV grind.
The toyota cams are way weak, w/ only the thinnest of surface hardening.
The RV was tried in a very strong 2F that already had been punched 1mm, milled, big valves, big 1975 carb, non-US dissy, headers, FJ45 flywheel & clutch... Swapping in the RV cam made a noisier valvetrain, but no noticeable improvement in power or economy. It ended up coming back out and reinstalling the customer's old/new OEM cam.
Been using the USA billet stock replacement with excellent results. Melling MC803 or SealedPower CS803.

If the profiles of the 2F and the 3F-E cam are the same, but the 3F-E cam is advanced 5*, why does Toyota carry only one camshaft? Which one is it? Does 5* make that much of a difference to matter?

They carry one number because it is cheaper to carry one number.
The current cam is the 3FE cam, but it is backward compatible w/ all F-series engines.
It doesn't matter to toyota. I don't know if it matters to you.

I'm going with the Delta Camshaft cam. I'm anxious to feel the difference it makes in the 2F-E.

Sounds like a good choice.

[bri368x]

Originally Posted by Dave-T

Had my cam reground by Delta. Specs are below. Great improvement on top and bottom end IF combined with header, shaved head, engine balance etc. By itself I don't think you would gain much.

I agree. I had an old Chevy truck with a straight 6, I put in a hot cam, and had more power at the top end, but the bottom end sucked donkeys with nothing else added to the engine.

[FJ40Jim]

Originally Posted by Trollhole

Jim do you know where to source the cam gear that is solid? I tried Toyota but all I got was the one with the isolator.

The solid gear is available from SealedPower/SpeedPro/Mellings. #2202.

[MiniPigg]

Originally Posted by FJ40Jim

Been using the USA billet stock replacement with excellent results. Melling MC803 or SealedPower CS803.

Jim what are the cost of these cam and do they sale lifters as well? Or can we use our reconditioned lifters?
Where can we order them and who has the best price?

[FJ40Jim]

Melling & Sealedpower are common american parts mfgr.

Order from local parts house or machine shop (if they're doing the build) or one of the big mailorder parts places like Rockauto or northernauto or Autopartsgiant.

I only buy/install genuine Joint Fuji lifters. They either come from Cruiserparts, MAF or CDan.

[Dave-T]

Originally Posted by FJ40Jim

The solid gear is available from SealedPower/SpeedPro/Mellings. #2202.

Last I checked that number wasn't good anymore.

[FJ40Jim]

The SealedPower/Federal Mogul number is 221-2202.

Haven't bought one for 6mos., so they might be NLA. Bummer.

ITM has a solid gear, but like all ITM stuff it is made in China/Taiwan/Malaysia.

[n2666s]

Iskenderian makes a nice cam for the F and 2F, they will need yours and reprofile it to your specs.......Ron iskenderian has been doing this with his Dad since the 50s and they have a lot of different profiles for the F and 2Fs....,,,they also case harden the lobes.....a great big + IMO..........price is very reasonable and if you get a chance talk to Ron; he has a treasure of info in his noggin; never steered me wrong in the years have been dealing with him and his Dad

Lou

[tonkota]

Originally Posted by n2666s

Iskenderian makes a nice cam for the F and 2F, they will need yours and reprofile it to your specs.......Ron iskenderian has been doing this with his Dad since the 50s and they have a lot of different profiles for the F and 2Fs....,,,they also case harden the lobes.....a great big + IMO..........price is very reasonable and if you get a chance talk to Ron; he has a treasure of info in his noggin; never steered me wrong in the years have been dealing with him and his Dad

Lou

These the ones?

ISKY Racing cams

Nice to know there is some support for these engines. More than I thought. I'll keep tabs on these in the first post.

[MiniPigg]

Originally Posted by tonkota

These the ones?

ISKY Racing cams

Nice to know there is some support for these engines. More than I thought. I'll keep tabs on these in the first post.

dude those are awesome prices for an isky cam... which one is the best to go with? (Jim?)

[tonkota]

I wrote them and asked what the difference was in the three listed.

[FJ40Jim]

The price may include the customer providing a core cam to be reground.

I don't know which one I like because they don't have any other info on the profiles available.

Contact Isky and find out if a core is required, and which grind they recommend for you. They are very well respected for cam info.

[MiniPigg]

Originally Posted by FJ40Jim

The price may include the customer providing a core cam to be reground.

I don't know which one I like because they don't have any other info on the profiles available.

Contact Isky and find out if a core is required, and which grind they recommend for you. They are very well respected for cam info.

Isky regrinds the customers cam. So it isnt new billet, its your old cam. He said he doesnt have enough demand to grind from a new billet. He does maybe one 2F/3FE cam a month.

When I spoke with the owners on the phone he also gave me the number for Rocker Arm Specialists 530-378-1075

[CruisinFJ60]

did he have a recomendation for the better one?

[MiniPigg]

Originally Posted by CruisinFJ60

did he have a recomendation for the better one?

No... I asked him if we would benefit from using a new billet and he said the old cam was good enough for its application as a regrind.

The number above is for lifters.

[lehiguy]

I have run the folowing cams in a 2F; stock, Clay Smith (I remember the specs to be about 220 duration at .050 and .420 lift), Downey torque cam, and a new-from-Toyota 3F cam. In the end I stuck with the 3F for the good torque curve and mileage which had suffered with the Clay Smith and the Downey cams. I had some painful issues along the way. First, it became obvious that the stock springs would bind with the Clay Smith or the Downey cam. They were also of insufficient pressure to avoid valve float on a bigger cam. So I found some Chevy springs that were dimensionaly compatible and stiffer. I got a complete set of lifters from Man A Fre. It wasn't too long after that things had obvious problems. The lifters mushroomed out so badly that I had to remove the cam (while holding the lifters up with all twelve of my hands) and push the lifters out the bottom of the bores. I thought is was the springs so I swapped out the cam for the stocker and the springs as well. I had nine lifters reground and bought three new ones from Toyota. The lifters mushroomed again, except this time, three did not. They were the Toyota lifters. Now I looked for professional help. I found a local cam/lifter grinder and we determined that the MAF lifters were absolute trash. Not only were they too soft, they are also smaller that the stock lifters and they ruined two of my camshafts. A very poor product to say the least. The stock Toyota lifters have some issues too, but they are correctable. They are not truley square and they have no crown to create rotation as any other solid lifter would have. This is all fixed with a resurfaceing of the bottom of the lifter to true it and to create a very slight crown. This causes rotation in the lifter bore as the cam actuates it and will greatly increase their lifespan. So in the end, this was my personal assesment; the "performance" cams cost me mileage, weren't compatible with the stock springs and offered small performance gains. (Let's face it, the motor has very limited potential with the reverse flow head and a two-ton, four-bearing crankshaft) So this what I ended up with. A new 3F cam (it's all that you can get from Toyota), a milled head, a Weber 38/38, a header and a recurved ignition advance. This was the best the 2F ever ran, and I have never driven one that ran better. So my advice to any performance seekers, based on my exerience, would be to exercise extreme caution with regards to the valve springs and DO NOT USE MAF LIFTERS!!!! About a year after all this I finally got the performance I wanted in the form of a 350 that got better mileage and made at least twice the power as the 2F. Too bad I had wasted so much money along the way.