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04-02-08, 11:23 AM
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#2 | | The Pompatus of Cruisers
Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Lancaster, Ohio, USA
Posts: 7,145
| The 3F & 2F camshaft profiles are exactly the same. The only difference is the 3F cam is 5* advanced.
Advancing the cam timing brings torque earlier, helping to make up for the torque that was lost when the crank was destroked.
__________________ Thanks,
Jim C.
TLC Performance < Useful Parts FS>
Underhood Janitor, cleaning up other people's  since 1988.
"It works fine" <> Safe, Elegant or Correct | 
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04-02-08, 12:37 PM
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#3 | | Lifer
Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: SW Manitoba / wellsite
Posts: 5,854
| So the advancement is in the way the camshaft and drive gear mate-up? (i.e. It is the drive gear that is different rather than the camshaft?)
__________________ [ ][ ]=TOYOTA=[ ][ ] - '89, rough and ready - Wobble Wagon Now with a 2FE that's been turd polished [ ][ ]=TOYOTA=[ ][ ] - '90, no rust, in the wings  - '70, some assembly required, batteries not included - Spot | 
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04-02-08, 01:20 PM
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#4 | | 2F-ETI
Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Melbourne
Posts: 2,233
| Quote:
Originally Posted by RockDoc  So the advancement is in the way the camshaft and drive gear mate-up? (i.e. It is the drive gear that is different rather than the camshaft?) | From what I understand you just twist the Dizzy 
My Cam specs 
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2F-ETI DYNO'd at 8PSI 181kw/244hp & 560Nm/413ftlb @ the RW 8th Dec 08
EST @ FLY 283KW/379HP
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04-02-08, 01:23 PM
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#5 | | Lifer
Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: SW Manitoba / wellsite
Posts: 5,854
| Quote:
Originally Posted by matt.mcinnes From what I understand you just twist the Dizzy | If it was spark timing we were talking about. 
__________________ [ ][ ]=TOYOTA=[ ][ ] - '89, rough and ready - Wobble Wagon Now with a 2FE that's been turd polished [ ][ ]=TOYOTA=[ ][ ] - '90, no rust, in the wings - '70, some assembly required, batteries not included - Spot | |
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04-02-08, 01:26 PM
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#6 | | Addict
Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Coulee Dam, WA
Posts: 1,873
| I am curious what the power band will look like between the stock 3FE cam and this KC859 cam. Are we losing any power or gaining it?
__________________ 1973 FJ55 Cummins , The '78 55 body transplant is complete! YES!
1978 FJ55 Body is now on the '73. This frame will be blasted and prep'd for future mods.
Next on the list... 1974 FJ55 | |
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04-02-08, 01:30 PM
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#7 | | 2F-ETI
Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Melbourne
Posts: 2,233
| Quote:
Originally Posted by MiniPigg I am curious what the power band will look like between the stock 3FE cam and this KC859 cam. Are we losing any power or gaining it? | Is that cam for torque or hp?
__________________
2F-ETI DYNO'd at 8PSI 181kw/244hp & 560Nm/413ftlb @ the RW 8th Dec 08
EST @ FLY 283KW/379HP
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04-02-08, 03:20 PM
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#8 | | Lifer
Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: SW Manitoba / wellsite
Posts: 5,854
| Good thread on F block camshaft stuff.
__________________ [ ][ ]=TOYOTA=[ ][ ] - '89, rough and ready - Wobble Wagon Now with a 2FE that's been turd polished [ ][ ]=TOYOTA=[ ][ ] - '90, no rust, in the wings - '70, some assembly required, batteries not included - Spot | |
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04-02-08, 07:13 PM
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#9 | | Addict
Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Heber City, UT
Posts: 1,544
| Had my cam reground by Delta. Specs are below. Great improvement on top and bottom end IF combined with header, shaved head, engine balance etc. By itself I don't think you would gain much.
__________________ 1984 FJ60---Hi-perf 2F with other goodies
(@)==Toyota==(@) <----- 60's rule!
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04-02-08, 07:14 PM
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#10 | | The Pompatus of Cruisers
Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Lancaster, Ohio, USA
Posts: 7,145
| Quote:
Originally Posted by RockDoc So the advancement is in the way the camshaft and drive gear mate-up? (i.e. It is the drive gear that is different rather than the camshaft?) | The change in cam timing is accomplished by moving the woodruff key 2.5* on the snout of the cam.
__________________ Thanks,
Jim C.
TLC Performance < Useful Parts FS>
Underhood Janitor, cleaning up other people's since 1988.
"It works fine" <> Safe, Elegant or Correct | |
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04-02-08, 08:05 PM
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#11 | | Addict
Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Spokane, WA
Posts: 2,106
| Interesting.
Jim, just out of curiosity, what cams have you run now or in the past?
If the profiles of the 2F and the 3F-E cam are the same, but the 3F-E cam is advanced 5*, why does Toyota carry only one camshaft? Which one is it? Does 5* make that much of a difference to matter?
I'm going with the Delta Camshaft cam. I'm anxious to feel the difference it makes in the 2F-E. | |
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04-03-08, 01:51 PM
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#12 | | Addict
Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Coulee Dam, WA
Posts: 1,873
| Quote:
Originally Posted by tonkota Interesting.
Jim, just out of curiosity, what cams have you run now or in the past?
If the profiles of the 2F and the 3F-E cam are the same, but the 3F-E cam is advanced 5*, why does Toyota carry only one camshaft? Which one is it? Does 5* make that much of a difference to matter?
I'm going with the Delta Camshaft cam. I'm anxious to feel the difference it makes in the 2F-E. | Im also wondering if the KC859 cam is basically a reground spec cam and are there power gains?
Delta cams said they would do a custom cam as well.... so if that is the case and it doesnt cost much more what would be the best spec to go with for the 2FE?
__________________ 1973 FJ55 Cummins , The '78 55 body transplant is complete! YES!
1978 FJ55 Body is now on the '73. This frame will be blasted and prep'd for future mods.
Next on the list... 1974 FJ55 | |
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04-03-08, 01:56 PM
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#13 | | Lifer
Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: SW Manitoba / wellsite
Posts: 5,854
| Quote:
Originally Posted by RockDoc | Take a peak at this thread if you haven't already. Lots of good info from Mark W and others. Mark hasn't been on Mud for a while, but he has a hell of a lot of experience making strong F-blocks.
__________________ [ ][ ]=TOYOTA=[ ][ ] - '89, rough and ready - Wobble Wagon Now with a 2FE that's been turd polished [ ][ ]=TOYOTA=[ ][ ] - '90, no rust, in the wings - '70, some assembly required, batteries not included - Spot | |
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04-03-08, 03:09 PM
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#14 | | THC
Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Mauldin, SC
Posts: 17,833
| Quote:
Originally Posted by FJ40Jim The change in cam timing is accomplished by moving the woodruff key 2.5* on the snout of the cam. | Jim do you know where to source the cam gear that is solid? I tried Toyota but all I got was the one with the isolator.
Also some good reading on cams. http://forum.ih8mud.com/40-55-series...uild-tech.html
starts around post 28.
If I had to do it over again I would have gone with the Delta cam over the Billet cam. Just because it cost so much more.
Last edited by Trollhole; 04-03-08 at 03:27 PM.
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04-03-08, 03:40 PM
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#15 | | The Pompatus of Cruisers
Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Lancaster, Ohio, USA
Posts: 7,145
| Quote:
Originally Posted by tonkota Jim, just out of curiosity, what cams have you run now or in the past? | Only the Toyota OEM, aftermarket billet and MAF RV grind.
The toyota cams are way weak, w/ only the thinnest of surface hardening.
The RV was tried in a very strong 2F that already had been punched 1mm, milled, big valves, big 1975 carb, non-US dissy, headers, FJ45 flywheel & clutch... Swapping in the RV cam made a noisier valvetrain, but no noticeable improvement in power or economy. It ended up coming back out and reinstalling the customer's old/new OEM cam.
Been using the USA billet stock replacement with excellent results. Melling MC803 or SealedPower CS803. Quote: |
If the profiles of the 2F and the 3F-E cam are the same, but the 3F-E cam is advanced 5*, why does Toyota carry only one camshaft? Which one is it? Does 5* make that much of a difference to matter?
| They carry one number because it is cheaper to carry one number.
The current cam is the 3FE cam, but it is backward compatible w/ all F-series engines.
It doesn't matter to toyota. I don't know if it matters to you. Quote: |
I'm going with the Delta Camshaft cam. I'm anxious to feel the difference it makes in the 2F-E.
| Sounds like a good choice. 
__________________ Thanks,
Jim C.
TLC Performance < Useful Parts FS>
Underhood Janitor, cleaning up other people's since 1988.
"It works fine" <> Safe, Elegant or Correct | |
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04-03-08, 03:46 PM
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#16 | | Forum Regular
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 25
| Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave-T Had my cam reground by Delta. Specs are below. Great improvement on top and bottom end IF combined with header, shaved head, engine balance etc. By itself I don't think you would gain much.
| I agree. I had an old Chevy truck with a straight 6, I put in a hot cam, and had more power at the top end, but the bottom end sucked donkeys with nothing else added to the engine. | |
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04-03-08, 03:55 PM
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#17 | | The Pompatus of Cruisers
Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Lancaster, Ohio, USA
Posts: 7,145
| Quote:
Originally Posted by Trollhole Jim do you know where to source the cam gear that is solid? I tried Toyota but all I got was the one with the isolator. | The solid gear is available from SealedPower/SpeedPro/Mellings. #2202.
__________________ Thanks,
Jim C.
TLC Performance < Useful Parts FS>
Underhood Janitor, cleaning up other people's since 1988.
"It works fine" <> Safe, Elegant or Correct | |
| | |
04-03-08, 09:36 PM
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#18 | | Addict
Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Coulee Dam, WA
Posts: 1,873
| Quote:
Originally Posted by FJ40Jim Been using the USA billet stock replacement with excellent results. Melling MC803 or SealedPower CS803. | Jim what are the cost of these cam and do they sale lifters as well? Or can we use our reconditioned lifters?
Where can we order them and who has the best price?
__________________ 1973 FJ55 Cummins , The '78 55 body transplant is complete! YES!
1978 FJ55 Body is now on the '73. This frame will be blasted and prep'd for future mods.
Next on the list... 1974 FJ55
Last edited by MiniPigg; 04-03-08 at 09:44 PM.
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04-03-08, 10:01 PM
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#19 | | The Pompatus of Cruisers
Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Lancaster, Ohio, USA
Posts: 7,145
| Melling & Sealedpower are common american parts mfgr.
Order from local parts house or machine shop (if they're doing the build) or one of the big mailorder parts places like Rockauto or northernauto or Autopartsgiant.
I only buy/install genuine Joint Fuji lifters. They either come from Cruiserparts, MAF or CDan.
__________________ Thanks,
Jim C.
TLC Performance < Useful Parts FS>
Underhood Janitor, cleaning up other people's since 1988.
"It works fine" <> Safe, Elegant or Correct | |
| | |
04-03-08, 10:12 PM
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#20 | | Addict
Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Heber City, UT
Posts: 1,544
| Quote:
Originally Posted by FJ40Jim The solid gear is available from SealedPower/SpeedPro/Mellings. #2202. | Last I checked that number wasn't good anymore.
__________________ 1984 FJ60---Hi-perf 2F with other goodies
(@)==Toyota==(@) <----- 60's rule!
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