Camshaft

tonkota · 04-02-08, 10:58 AM

Here is what we now know:

Currently the 2F and 3F-E camshaft carry the same Toyota part number.

This 1988 new features booklet (page 18 of the PDF, 122 of the booklet) states that the cams are different.

Mark W uses Delta Camshaft Part number KC859 with 262* advertised duration.

I also use this cam from Delta.

EDIT: I'll try to keep the valuable links up here.

Suppliers:
Delta Camshaft
ISKY Racing Cams
Rockauto - Sealed Power brand
Specter Off-Road
Man-a-Fre
Auto Parts Giant - ITM, Melling, Sealed Power brands
Wade Camshafts in Australia
Downey Off-Road Torquer Cam
JT Outfitters
D. Elign Cams - Super Lobes

Great Camshaft Discussions:
Big Gay 2F Build Tech - Cam discussion starts about post #28
Aftermarket Performance 2F Cams
Things I learned (cam talk with pictures)

Computer Modification:
JET Performance
JET Vehicle form

FJ40Jim · 04-02-08, 12:23 PM

The 3F & 2F camshaft profiles are exactly the same. The only difference is the 3F cam is 5* advanced.
Advancing the cam timing brings torque earlier, helping to make up for the torque that was lost when the crank was destroked.

RockDoc · 04-02-08, 01:37 PM

So the advancement is in the way the camshaft and drive gear mate-up? (i.e. It is the drive gear that is different rather than the camshaft?)

matt.mcinnes · 04-02-08, 02:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RockDoc

So the advancement is in the way the camshaft and drive gear mate-up? (i.e. It is the drive gear that is different rather than the camshaft?)

From what I understand you just twist the Dizzy

My Cam specs

RockDoc · 04-02-08, 02:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by matt.mcinnes

From what I understand you just twist the Dizzy

If it was spark timing we were talking about.

MiniPigg · 04-02-08, 02:26 PM

I am curious what the power band will look like between the stock 3FE cam and this KC859 cam. Are we losing any power or gaining it?

matt.mcinnes · 04-02-08, 02:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MiniPigg

I am curious what the power band will look like between the stock 3FE cam and this KC859 cam. Are we losing any power or gaining it?

Is that cam for torque or hp?

RockDoc · 04-02-08, 04:20 PM

Good thread on F block camshaft stuff.

Dave-T · 04-02-08, 08:13 PM

Had my cam reground by Delta. Specs are below. Great improvement on top and bottom end IF combined with header, shaved head, engine balance etc. By itself I don't think you would gain much.

FJ40Jim · 04-02-08, 08:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RockDoc

So the advancement is in the way the camshaft and drive gear mate-up? (i.e. It is the drive gear that is different rather than the camshaft?)

The change in cam timing is accomplished by moving the woodruff key 2.5* on the snout of the cam.

tonkota · 04-02-08, 09:05 PM

Interesting.

Jim, just out of curiosity, what cams have you run now or in the past?

If the profiles of the 2F and the 3F-E cam are the same, but the 3F-E cam is advanced 5*, why does Toyota carry only one camshaft? Which one is it? Does 5* make that much of a difference to matter?

I'm going with the Delta Camshaft cam. I'm anxious to feel the difference it makes in the 2F-E.

MiniPigg · 04-03-08, 02:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tonkota

Interesting.

Jim, just out of curiosity, what cams have you run now or in the past?

If the profiles of the 2F and the 3F-E cam are the same, but the 3F-E cam is advanced 5*, why does Toyota carry only one camshaft? Which one is it? Does 5* make that much of a difference to matter?

I'm going with the Delta Camshaft cam. I'm anxious to feel the difference it makes in the 2F-E.

Im also wondering if the KC859 cam is basically a reground spec cam and are there power gains?

Delta cams said they would do a custom cam as well.... so if that is the case and it doesnt cost much more what would be the best spec to go with for the 2FE?

RockDoc · 04-03-08, 02:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RockDoc

Good thread on F block camshaft stuff.

Take a peak at this thread if you haven't already. Lots of good info from Mark W and others. Mark hasn't been on Mud for a while, but he has a hell of a lot of experience making strong F-blocks.

Trollhole · 04-03-08, 04:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FJ40Jim

The change in cam timing is accomplished by moving the woodruff key 2.5* on the snout of the cam.

Jim do you know where to source the cam gear that is solid? I tried Toyota but all I got was the one with the isolator.

Also some good reading on cams.

http://forum.ih8mud.com/40-55-series...uild-tech.html

starts around post 28.

If I had to do it over again I would have gone with the Delta cam over the Billet cam. Just because it cost so much more.

FJ40Jim · 04-03-08, 04:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tonkota

Jim, just out of curiosity, what cams have you run now or in the past?

Only the Toyota OEM, aftermarket billet and MAF RV grind.
The toyota cams are way weak, w/ only the thinnest of surface hardening.
The RV was tried in a very strong 2F that already had been punched 1mm, milled, big valves, big 1975 carb, non-US dissy, headers, FJ45 flywheel & clutch... Swapping in the RV cam made a noisier valvetrain, but no noticeable improvement in power or economy. It ended up coming back out and reinstalling the customer's old/new OEM cam.
Been using the USA billet stock replacement with excellent results. Melling MC803 or SealedPower CS803.

Quote:

If the profiles of the 2F and the 3F-E cam are the same, but the 3F-E cam is advanced 5*, why does Toyota carry only one camshaft? Which one is it? Does 5* make that much of a difference to matter?

They carry one number because it is cheaper to carry one number.
The current cam is the 3FE cam, but it is backward compatible w/ all F-series engines.
It doesn't matter to toyota. I don't know if it matters to you.

Quote:

I'm going with the Delta Camshaft cam. I'm anxious to feel the difference it makes in the 2F-E.

Sounds like a good choice.

bri368x · 04-03-08, 04:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave-T

Had my cam reground by Delta. Specs are below. Great improvement on top and bottom end IF combined with header, shaved head, engine balance etc. By itself I don't think you would gain much.

I agree. I had an old Chevy truck with a straight 6, I put in a hot cam, and had more power at the top end, but the bottom end sucked donkeys with nothing else added to the engine.

FJ40Jim · 04-03-08, 04:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trollhole

Jim do you know where to source the cam gear that is solid? I tried Toyota but all I got was the one with the isolator.

The solid gear is available from SealedPower/SpeedPro/Mellings. #2202.

MiniPigg · 04-03-08, 10:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FJ40Jim

Been using the USA billet stock replacement with excellent results. Melling MC803 or SealedPower CS803.

Jim what are the cost of these cam and do they sale lifters as well? Or can we use our reconditioned lifters?
Where can we order them and who has the best price?

FJ40Jim · 04-03-08, 11:01 PM

Melling & Sealedpower are common american parts mfgr.

Order from local parts house or machine shop (if they're doing the build) or one of the big mailorder parts places like Rockauto or northernauto or Autopartsgiant.

I only buy/install genuine Joint Fuji lifters. They either come from Cruiserparts, MAF or CDan.

Dave-T · 04-03-08, 11:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FJ40Jim

The solid gear is available from SealedPower/SpeedPro/Mellings. #2202.

Last I checked that number wasn't good anymore.

FJ40Jim · 04-04-08, 09:02 AM

The SealedPower/Federal Mogul number is 221-2202.

Haven't bought one for 6mos., so they might be NLA. Bummer.

ITM has a solid gear, but like all ITM stuff it is made in China/Taiwan/Malaysia.

n2666s · 04-04-08, 09:16 AM

Iskenderian makes a nice cam for the F and 2F, they will need yours and reprofile it to your specs.......Ron iskenderian has been doing this with his Dad since the 50s and they have a lot of different profiles for the F and 2Fs....,,,they also case harden the lobes.....a great big + IMO..........price is very reasonable and if you get a chance talk to Ron; he has a treasure of info in his noggin; never steered me wrong in the years have been dealing with him and his Dad

Lou

tonkota · 04-04-08, 10:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by n2666s

Iskenderian makes a nice cam for the F and 2F, they will need yours and reprofile it to your specs.......Ron iskenderian has been doing this with his Dad since the 50s and they have a lot of different profiles for the F and 2Fs....,,,they also case harden the lobes.....a great big + IMO..........price is very reasonable and if you get a chance talk to Ron; he has a treasure of info in his noggin; never steered me wrong in the years have been dealing with him and his Dad

Lou

These the ones?

ISKY Racing cams

Nice to know there is some support for these engines. More than I thought. I'll keep tabs on these in the

04-02-08, 10:58 AM	#1
tonkota IH8MUD Lifer Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Spokane, WA TLCA# 14154 Posts: 1,247 Blog Entries: 4	Camshaft Here is what we now know: Currently the 2F and 3F-E camshaft carry the same Toyota part number. This 1988 new features booklet (page 18 of the PDF, 122 of the booklet) states that the cams are different. Mark W uses Delta Camshaft Part number KC859 with 262* advertised duration. I also use this cam from Delta. EDIT: I'll try to keep the valuable links up here. Suppliers: Delta Camshaft ISKY Racing Cams Rockauto - Sealed Power brand Specter Off-Road Man-a-Fre Auto Parts Giant - ITM, Melling, Sealed Power brands Wade Camshafts in Australia Downey Off-Road Torquer Cam JT Outfitters D. Elign Cams - Super Lobes Great Camshaft Discussions: Big Gay 2F Build Tech - Cam discussion starts about post #28 Aftermarket Performance 2F Cams Things I learned (cam talk with pictures) Computer Modification: JET Performance JET Vehicle form __________________ A Ron Using one cruiser to go mountain biking, and the other to collect dust. 2F-E Article McNamara gear writeup Last edited by tonkota; 08-06-08 at 11:35 AM.

04-02-08, 01:37 PM	#3
RockDoc impervious to subtlety Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Edmonton, Alberta TLCA# 18148 Posts: 1,397	So the advancement is in the way the camshaft and drive gear mate-up? (i.e. It is the drive gear that is different rather than the camshaft?) __________________ [ ][ ]=TOYOTA=[ ][ ] 4 eyes > 2 eyes Member of the Peace Canyon Toyota Swamp Donkeys Creep Coalition

04-02-08, 02:26 PM	#6
MiniPigg IH8MUD Lifer Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Cheyenne, WY TLCA# 7434 Posts: 1,351	I am curious what the power band will look like between the stock 3FE cam and this KC859 cam. Are we losing any power or gaining it? __________________ 1989 FJ62 Factory Clean... 2FE "Good people sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf" "Honor Our Fallen Brethren."

04-02-08, 04:20 PM	#8
RockDoc impervious to subtlety Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Edmonton, Alberta TLCA# 18148 Posts: 1,397	Good thread on F block camshaft stuff. __________________ [ ][ ]=TOYOTA=[ ][ ] 4 eyes > 2 eyes Member of the Peace Canyon Toyota Swamp Donkeys Creep Coalition

04-02-08, 08:13 PM	#9
Dave-T IH8MUD Lifer Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Oakhurst CA TLCA# 16951 Posts: 1,413	Had my cam reground by Delta. Specs are below. Great improvement on top and bottom end IF combined with header, shaved head, engine balance etc. By itself I don't think you would gain much. Attached Images __________________ 1984 FJ60---Hi-perf 2F with other goodies 1978 Hilux---Dirty old man truck 1994 Honda XR600R 2003 Polaris RMK 800 (@)==Toyota==(@) <----- 60's rule!

04-02-08, 12:23 PM	#2
FJ40Jim Cruiser Curmudgeon Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Lancaster, Ohio, USA TLCA# 1914 Posts: 3,154	The 3F & 2F camshaft profiles are exactly the same. The only difference is the 3F cam is 5* advanced. Advancing the cam timing brings torque earlier, helping to make up for the torque that was lost when the crank was destroked. __________________ Thanks, Jim C. TLC Performance Underhood Janitor, cleaning up other people's since 1988.

04-02-08, 09:05 PM	#11
tonkota IH8MUD Lifer Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Spokane, WA TLCA# 14154 Posts: 1,247 Blog Entries: 4	Interesting. Jim, just out of curiosity, what cams have you run now or in the past? If the profiles of the 2F and the 3F-E cam are the same, but the 3F-E cam is advanced 5, why does Toyota carry only one camshaft? Which one is it? Does 5 make that much of a difference to matter? I'm going with the Delta Camshaft cam. I'm anxious to feel the difference it makes in the 2F-E. __________________ A Ron Using one cruiser to go mountain biking, and the other to collect dust. 2F-E Article McNamara gear writeup

04-03-08, 11:01 PM	#19
FJ40Jim Cruiser Curmudgeon Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Lancaster, Ohio, USA TLCA# 1914 Posts: 3,154	Melling & Sealedpower are common american parts mfgr. Order from local parts house or machine shop (if they're doing the build) or one of the big mailorder parts places like Rockauto or northernauto or Autopartsgiant. I only buy/install genuine Joint Fuji lifters. They either come from Cruiserparts, MAF or CDan. __________________ Thanks, Jim C. TLC Performance Underhood Janitor, cleaning up other people's since 1988.

04-04-08, 09:02 AM	#21
FJ40Jim Cruiser Curmudgeon Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Lancaster, Ohio, USA TLCA# 1914 Posts: 3,154	The SealedPower/Federal Mogul number is 221-2202. Haven't bought one for 6mos., so they might be NLA. Bummer. ITM has a solid gear, but like all ITM stuff it is made in China/Taiwan/Malaysia. __________________ Thanks, Jim C. TLC Performance Underhood Janitor, cleaning up other people's since 1988.

04-04-08, 09:16 AM	#22
n2666s IH8MUD Lifer Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 1,928	Iskenderian makes a nice cam for the F and 2F, they will need yours and reprofile it to your specs.......Ron iskenderian has been doing this with his Dad since the 50s and they have a lot of different profiles for the F and 2Fs....,,,they also case harden the lobes.....a great big + IMO..........price is very reasonable and if you get a chance talk to Ron; he has a treasure of info in his noggin; never steered me wrong in the years have been dealing with him and his Dad Lou