Builds GW Nugget's Family Haulin Lx450 build (1 Viewer)

[Nay]

@Nay , I don't understand this staitment... why use only 10" shocks if you can fit 12" shocks under your lift without restricting uptravel? As long as both are 12" stroke.

Front end can't use it, so you are further disconnecting the rear from the front. It's the same reason you want the front swaybar removed and rear attached - some resistance from the rear can help balance flex to the front.

It is also easier to keep the shock travel in the middle of the spring travel where the suspension is operating most effectively rather than essentially dropping out the bottom on one corner (there is no way to get equal action on the opposite corner without doing something like 3-linking). Think about what is happening with the sprung weight when one corner is still articulating but the other three are not. Where is that counter pressure being exerted and to what effect? Does this create an unweighting effect in some situations?

When thinking about "balance" as opposed to "travel" as a primary objective while maximizing tire size, I really like this video at about 1:10 when the rear suspension drops in.



An edit to my last post - you are right that my rear bumpstop drop is 2.5" and I had said 2" before.

Also, here's a current side view pic. That would be 24" hub to flare if I had flares.

 

[GW Nugget]

take into consideration that he did mention the adapter piece that adds 1.25"

I know this is and probably will be a silly question but what are the specs on the slinky springs? can they handle all the weight that we carry?...if so maybe i might want to experiment with springs again!

@jtwopark I posted this up on another thread, but I'll post here so I can reference it faster.

Finally found time to look for specs that are buried through four threads...

50mm coils:
Front 5300 2" lift front.
Rear ???

75mm coils:
Front
7498 3" lift for front. (rate=160lb/260lb)

Rear
7501 Intermediate is 3" lift 440lb extra load (rate=160lb/270lb)

7511 HD is 3" lift 900lb extr load (rate=160lb/320lb)

7511E EHD is 1200 lb constant 3" lift
We also have a 2200lb constant load.

All measurements are equivalent to bottom of a 16" rim to bottom of flare.

@Box Rocket ride height with 7498 fronts is 32.25 rear 7511 is 33"

@GW Nugget front 7498 corrected from 1" body lift & 17" rim is 32.25" (actual is 33.75")

@silverhorse rear 7501 corrected from 1" body lift is 32"

My front coils settled in at same ride height as @Box Rocket s at 32.25" that's a 3.25" lift. @silverhorse 7501 sit 1" lower than @Box Rocket s 7511s.

Hope this helps.

 

[jtwopark]

These coils have ratings that are 3 or almost 4 times the weight/per inch than ome springs.

I need to keep a minimum of 4" lift

 

[GW Nugget]

Front end can't use it, so you are further disconnecting the rear from the front. It's the same reason you want the front swaybar removed and rear attached - some resistance from the rear can help balance flex to the front.

It is also easier to keep the shock travel in the middle of the spring travel where the suspension is operating most effectively rather than essentially dropping out the bottom on one corner (there is no way to get equal action on the opposite corner without doing something like 3-linking). Think about what is happening with the sprung weight when one corner is still articulating but the other three are not. Where is that counter pressure being exerted and to what effect? Does this create an unweighting effect in some situations?

When thinking about "balance" as opposed to "travel" as a primary objective while maximizing tire size, I really like this video at about 1:10 when the rear suspension drops in.



An edit to my last post - you are right that my rear bumpstop drop is 2.5" and I had said 2" before.

Also, here's a current side view pic. That would be 24" hub to flare if I had flares.

View attachment 1309551

Im learning that balance is more important than flex. So are you telling me restricking the rear to force the front to work more creates better balance?

Another thought is the Slinky front coil is 24" in free height which is 4" taller than a 850J at approx 20.25" (I don't know the FOR free height) so what I'm saying is these coils give 4" of downward preasure (more than 4" at tire) to the ground than a traditional coil. The Icon shock is a charged shock & also gives downward preasure to the ground rather than just drop hanging the axle. In my mind this gives the advantage & uses the extra 2" of a 12" Icon shock. Again I'm not an expert...
Same shocks fully exstended.
Slinky is still bushing down but the OME are dropping out by 4 inches.

 

[GW Nugget]

These coils have ratings that are 3 or almost 4 times the weight/per inch than ome springs.
I need to keep a minimum of 4" lift

I can see why you would want a 4" lift or even more for your use. Running 80 mph though the desert I would think more uptravel the better. What coils are you running? Last time we talked you had 4" HD Comp coils.... is so they are in the 280 to 300lb rate witch is more than the Slinkies so I would have to disagree with your 3 to 4 times per inch staitment unless I miss understood you.

 

[baldilocks]

A lot more thinking than wheeling going on here.

 

[GW Nugget]

A lot more thinking than wheeling going on here.

I can not argue with you there. No pity for me here, but I don't get to go as much as I want to... so I'm stuck talking about wheelin than actually getting to do it. I do as much here in my local creek bed but that does not even satisfy the itch. That's all I have to say about that.
So is my mato "Do the best you can with what you have."

 

[baldilocks]

The 80 suspension will only do so much and it's good enough for me. I came here from a life of leaf springs. My 78 ramcharger sported Deaver springs. Those guys can make sweet leaf springs! But even the 80 "tight" front suspension does just as well as those $750, 12 leaf packs did if not better. Just take your family out. You know my story Gary. I promote family time!

 

[jcardona1]

Be honest, how many extra coils and shocks do you have sitting in the garage? Seems like you swap coils and shocks at least 3x a week But I get, I too suffer from delancy-itis when I'm stuck behind a computer screen 10hrs a day!

 

[GW Nugget]

Be honest, how many extra coils and shocks do you have sitting in the garage? Seems like you swap coils and shocks at least 3x a week But I get, I too suffer from delancy-itis when I'm stuck behind a computer screen 10hrs a day!

It's the shocks... ive had to many. Rancho, Doetsch Tech, OME "L" & now have the Icons coming. The coils are just the 851, 860, 862 & now going Slinky. After all I've done, I say dual rate coils(not progressive) are best no matter what brand you have. OME, Icon or Slinky.

 

[Nay]

Im learning that balance is more important than flex. So are you telling me restricking the rear to force the front to work more creates better balance?

Another thought is the Slinky front coil is 24" in free height which is 4" taller than a 850J at approx 20.25" (I don't know the FOR free height) so what I'm saying is these coils give 4" of downward preasure (more than 4" at tire) to the ground than a traditional coil. The Icon shock is a charged shock & also gives downward preasure to the ground rather than just drop hanging the axle. In my mind this gives the advantage & uses the extra 2" of a 12" Icon shock. Again I'm not an expert...
Same shocks fully exstended.
Slinky is still bushing down but the OME are dropping out by 4 inches.View attachment 1309660 View attachment 1309661View attachment 1309662

Yes, restricting the rear somewhat, both with swaybar and not just dropping it out, will better balance to the front. If you just let the rear fall out, the front has no reason to work.

Now the slinky coils match up to the longer shocks so you have active spring motion through the entire shock travel. That's a good thing vs. OME, but arguably what is the point of all that droop on one end?

If you watch that last vid I posted, here's a picture of what it looks like before the rear drops in.

I love how balanced it is as both ends level and then it stays level out through the exit where the stable front end then forces the rear to do the work as it climbs up and over. That's fairly close to a buggy line, and it's funny to watch guys who trailered in rigs and struggle drop a little bit of jaw as the family SUV cruises up and over.

Another sequence that shows great balance...

It's not that there aren't more ways to skin the cat, but they seem about double the necessary cost. A lot of extra suspension travel is one of the least free lunches in the sport....

 

[jtwopark]

how are you guys getting soo much droop? is the sway bar disconnected?

usually with the sway bar connected you have to fight to get the axles to drop!

 

[Nay]

how are you guys getting soo much droop? is the sway bar disconnected?

usually with the sway bar connected you have to fight to get the axles to drop!

My front swaybar occupies a garage corner with an occasional spider. The rear just has Slee extensions to bring it back to stock alignment.

But you need good shocks to run that way - my Fox need a charge I think after about 80K miles

 

[Dragos80]

@jtwopark I posted this up on another thread, but I'll post here so I can reference it faster.

Finally found time to look for specs that are buried through four threads...

50mm coils:
Front 5300 2" lift front.
Rear ???

75mm coils:
Front
7498 3" lift for front. (rate=160lb/260lb)

Rear
7501 Intermediate is 3" lift 440lb extra load (rate=160lb/270lb)

7511 HD is 3" lift 900lb extr load (rate=160lb/320lb)

7511E EHD is 1200 lb constant 3" lift
We also have a 2200lb constant load.

All measurements are equivalent to bottom of a 16" rim to bottom of flare.

@Box Rocket ride height with 7498 fronts is 32.25 rear 7511 is 33"

@GW Nugget front 7498 corrected from 1" body lift & 17" rim is 32.25" (actual is 33.75")

@silverhorse rear 7501 corrected from 1" body lift is 32"

My front coils settled in at same ride height as @Box Rocket s at 32.25" that's a 3.25" lift. @silverhorse 7501 sit 1" lower than @Box Rocket s 7511s.

Hope this helps.

That's a loaded question... im currently over corrected OME yellows & 2.5" MAF brackets.
Guessing at 5° but have a set of factory bushings waiting to be installed. Not sure where these Slinkies are going to settlend down to yet. They have come down about half a inch sence install. They are at 3.25" lift right now.

Just for the record minus my 1" body lift:
Center of hub to bottom of flare.
75mm Slinky AC7498
Front driver 23.5" Pass 23.25"
OME 862+40mm
Rear driver 21.5" Pass 21.5"

Are heavy loaded in the rear?
With spacers (looks like 40mm) you are sitting a bit lower than I would expect.
I run 862 with nothing else added and it sits around 21" or about 30" bottom of the rim to bottom of the fender.
No 3rd row seats and no spare tire carrier under the trunk, however a heavy built rear bumper by Sean and tire carrier with 33" spare on it.

I guess a 30mm spacer would bring me to about 31" in the rear.

I am trying to find out if some front Slinky's would work for me if I just add some rear coil spacers. I guess only the 50mm would work out for me if I can only bring up the rear to about 31" or 22" depending on how you measure it.

 

[GW Nugget]

What do you have in front of your rig?

My 862 plus 30mm, 40mm on driver w/37" spare. They sit at 21.5" center hub to bottom of flare not counting 1" body lift. My 851 plus 25mm sat at 22". My new front 75mm Slinkies are 23.25" & I have coming this week some Slinky rears since I'm 1.75" low in the rear. Does this answer your questions?
I would assume 50mm Slinkies would sit 1" lower.

 

[Dragos80]

Front 861 plus recently installed 30mm spacers. ARB bumper and nothing else. No winch, no skid plates, no sliders.
Front PS sits about 1/2" higher than DS.
Rear PS slightly lower than rear DS. 1/8" - 1/4".

Rear 862 and no spacers.
I guess a 30mm rear spacer would bring up the rear to about 22.25" at the most. In that case 75mm Slinky up front would be too much and end up in a reverse stink bug stance. 50mm I guess would even it out (bring the from up one more inch to equal the rear height including the 30mm spacers).

All that would get me in trouble with the shocks. I would need longer ones for sure. Damn it.

 

[GW Nugget]

I would stick with the 861/862 combo, just use spacers & 10mm or 5mm packers to level. If your front coil is down that much on one side look to see if the coils are properly seated if they are consider clocking the coil up 1" turn counter clock wise. This gave me about a .25" of lift when I did it.

 

[Dragos80]

After I installed the PS spacer, I realized the coil was not properly seated. It was off by 1/2 turn. Crank it up again, do the work again, turn the coil to it's proper position.
I realized in doing so that I can gain some "free" height by having it seat in the wrong position.
Not sure how long it would take for the spring to seat itself in the right spot though.

I'll check the DS this weekend, turn it just a little bit, so it would be equal.
Maybe to the rear the same way too as they are slightly off too (PS I think is slightly lower). I'll remeasure everything first. It would be a week by then, hopefully more settling would take place.


I also thought about doing a 1" body lift. I know you have some good thoughts about it. I really think that's all I need as far as lifting is concerned, flipping between two sets of 33"s and 35"s.

 

[GW Nugget]

Since I learned the OME 861/862 coils where dual rate which is my opinion the best coils that OME make for an 80 series rig. Why get rid of them for other lift coils when one can just add some cheap spring spacers? You can safely add up to 50mm/2" in spacers & packers including the Metal Tech 2" ones. For 33"s this is perfect, if one wants 315s just add a 1" body lift. The best thing about all this it can build as your budget allows.

The OME dual rate coils are very close to the Slinky 50mm coils but very different in price.
OME
861 is 170/250
862 is 170/260
Slinky 50mm is
Front is 160/260
Rear is 160/270
Those numbers are in pounds of rate.

That was the long version not to get 50mm Slinkies if you already have OME stock height springs.

 

[baldilocks]

I am partial to my slee 4" rear springs for their ability to handle whatever I can put in or somehow attach to my cruiser. Weight is never a consideration even when I'm packing for very tough trails. They always feel stable and maintain the advertised 4" loaded with my weekend gear allowing for great up travel before contacting the bump stop. Unloaded, even with the bumper and other armor, they lift 5" plus and ride like a truck but that's the trade off.
I've have run stock, 863, 4" comps and the Slee's. 863@250 seemed pretty much the same as the 4" OME comps@280 as far as ability to care a load.
For me, a 4" slinky with a rate of something like 200-300 for the rear would be more attractive. I've been driving trucks my entire life and actually like the taught ride when unloaded but the big deal for me is loading up and not feeling laden and not feeling wallowy while I bounce over rocks and go around those sharp bends in the mountain road's I drive when my rig is loaded.