Glucosamine treatment for an old warrior

[Cdaniel]

Got the idle issue solved I think. After some discussion with Troy the programmer at Howell, I removed the "park neutral" wire from the ECM plug. Immediate RPM drop when warm. Still tweaking the stop screw to find where it's happy in traffic. Long down shifts cause rpm drops after a stop sometimes. I'm sort of mystified that this could be a problem when the kit was tailored to a manual trans setup. He says all the harnesses they make have this wire to ground and on rare occasions this symptom occurs. No explanation on why. I'm surprised they don't fully understand the ECMs and/or chips they have been selling for years. Oh well it seems to be working fine now. A google search did turn up similar issues with this circuit on other systems. This post can be an FYI for future TBI trouble shooters.

Moving on, the next project will be adding a fuel sump/accumulator to keep the EFI from starving at offroad angles.....

 

[Cdaniel]

After a week of driving it to work, one thing is certain. Old habits are hard to break. 20+ years of stepping on the gas to set the choke is hard to unlearn.

 

[Cdaniel]

Fuel accumulator system finished and working after much noodling and re noodling on where to locate things. Copied from a Blazer friends setup which was patterned after something from the Mustang crowd. So far so good around town.

 

[1Fine40]

[QUOTE="Cdaniel, post: 9136239, ing fine now. Moving on, the next project will be adding a fuel sump/accumulator to keep the EFI from starving at offroad angles.....[/QUOTE]

I'm confused on this need....Doesn't EFI use an electric pump? How does that starve? Is it a matter of where the pick up is placed in the tank? School me on this if you don't mind...

Cheers!

 

[Cdaniel]

With a partially empty tank it's quite possible to suck an air bubble into the system. Off road bouncing and sloshing, extreme angles fore and aft, side to side can leave the pickup exposed to air. Doesn't play well when injectors inject air instead of fuel. A carb can tolerate the occasional air bubble because it draws from a built in "accumulator", the float bowl.

So now my system has a mini "bowl" that is supplied by a low pressure electric pump and recircs to the tank. The high pressure EFI pump pulls from the bottom of the bowl and recircs to it.

 

[1Fine40]

Thanks Cdaniel! Now I understand the need, not necessarily the plumbing route! Someday I hope to do EFI and will have to deal with this I guess. For now, the Quadrajet is my "poor man" FI! It does work pretty well, but modernizing will be worth it at some point. Have you taken any mileage figures yet with the new system? I know with a Cruiser, one doesn't really worry about mileage! But I am still curious nonetheless. Thanks for taking the time to answer my questions!

Cheers!

 

[Cdaniel]

Always happy to share, that’s what this thread has been all about. Your old Q-Jet is the closest to EFI you can get without being there. I’ve 4 wheeled with them for 3 decades. Took a better budget to push me into the EFI. I’m still skeptical about all of the electronics, but it seems these systems have proven themselves worthy on the trail for quite awhile. No real mileage numbers yet. Too many full throttle tests and driveway idle moments. The 1st tank seemed to be somewhere in the 12-13 MPG range around town. The old Q-jet occasionally could get 14 on the highway (flat no big hills). So it looks promising. I still think the gauge moves way too fast though.

 

[bikersmurf]

12-13 seems decent enough considering. EFI is on my maybe, someday... Fuel economy never seems to be a big payoff. Drive ability, idle quality, and off road ability are where the real payoff lies.

Thanks for all the info Clif, been following your build closely... Even have a Scout II box waiting for time and a tidy garage.

To others following, I've been very happy with a Quadrajet, on/off road... 13-15 average mpg... Best 17 mpg(US) - highway cruising, fairly level (Port Angeles to Vancouver), 50-55 mph, (+/-2000 RPM), 33x10.50 BFG ATs, 3.70 diff, 1-2" lift. EFI might help economy, but for the most part, it won't pay for itself for a long time. (For comparison, our 1998 direct port fuel injected, roller rocker, V8, gets the same or worse fuel economy in and around town than my 74 Fj40 with a 1969 350, and a 20 year old Quadrajet.)

 

[Heron]

1Fine40, You will wonder why you did not do it sooner. ( Convert to TBI )
I went the Auto Junk Yard route, picked up all the TBI parts from a 92 GM Safari with a 4.3 V6 and auto trany.
Followed the directions from Downey Off Road. Did not have to change a thing.
No more fighting to keep it running in the rocks.
Last check on trip from Medford to Cruising the Woods, 17.85 MPG. 270 miles all freeway, Mountains and Flats.

 

[Cdaniel]

My reasons for making the change are mostly for the altitude change performance and no chance of flooding at extreme angles. That being said, the Q-jet would still run even at 12000 ft, but barely. Not that a metering rod change wouldn't cure that. And the only time it would cough on an angle was while being stood on its nose for extended periods. And that was with some off road mods.

 

[watrob]

Fuel accumulator system finished and working after much noodling and re noodling on where to locate things. Copied from a Blazer friends setup which was patterned after something from the Mustang crowd. So far so good around town.
View attachment 882762

Got enough hose clamps on there, I think you may need one more just to be on the safe side

 

[Cdaniel]

Only the amount required by the laws of air compression. If it's the orange hose with all the jewelry you speak of. That is part of the on board air system. The air/oil separator had to move to make way for the fuel parts. So rather than toss out 5ft of hose threaded through the frame, I just stuck a hose mender in there. The so called air hose needs 2 clamps per barb or it just shoots right off.

 

[1Fine40]

After Heron's reply, TBI may get a more serious look! Of course, I'm up to my neck in body repair currently, so it may still be a year out before I get back to mechanical fun! Such is the lot of a PT body man/welder, FT husband and provider!! But hey, I can still dream!! (The Mrs. even likes to go for explores every now and then...see my avatar!)

Cheers!

 

[Cdaniel]

I finally got the old beast out for some actual rock crawling, and truly test the ongoing mods and changes from this project. Quick review of the major Glucosamine items:

4:1 Orion-Awesome addition for the work this rig will do. I do have to pull it out to redo some poor sealing on my part. I also need to re visit and address the thrust washers as it's popping out of low on long downhill pulls.

Scout PS-The last pump seems to do the trick. Much better performance in the rough. It has developed a permanent low wine though.

SOA and high steer-So far so good. The limits on travel are more than expected, but tolerable. I still need a little more up limit to keep the beefy center and drag link nuts from catching the springs.

TBI-Great- in the rocks on on the road. I need to learn the idiosyncrasies of how the computer reacts to different situations. Not happy with the MPG seems to be around 10 in regular driving. Will be looking into this with a scanner if possible to see if it's really doing as good as possible.

Engine rework-Still runs great as before and the new cooling system is doing great.

Rear disc brakes-Stops so much better than ever.

So with the old warrior back up and functioning, I think this should be the end of this "project" thread. There are still plenty of things on the list to do, but this projects original goals seemed to have been reached. I'll probably add links here to anything new that gets posted elsewhere. For sure I will be addressing the seating and cage, rock sliders, and probably some tube fenders after this last trip. (see following photos).

So after 3-1/2 years and 35 pages of posts, we shall deem the "Glucosamine Treatment" completed. I'll keep the thread open for any questions on all this madness and links to whatever comes next.

Carnage from the trials:

Ongoing abuse of the weak designed fender support on passenger side rock rail

Total failure and nasty crunch on the driver side

Some minor massaging of the front bumper

An attitude adjustment on the cooler rack. Cooler suffered some insults too.

Some obligatory poser shots

 

[RUSH55]

How’s the wheeling been, Cliff?

 

[Cdaniel]

The cruiser is great when I get out
Hasn't happened much lately though. My other motor hobby has taken over. Built a sandrail from scratch. And currently it's getting repowered with an ecotec.

Plans for new tire carrier in back are on deck though.

 

[RUSH55]

Oh wow! Awesome! Got any threads about it or pics? (Sand rail)

 

[Cdaniel]

No build thread anywhere. Haven't stumbled on to a sand site like mud. A pic though.

 

[RUSH55]

1800 cc VW engine?

Great work Cliff! You get out to the dunes often?

 

[Cdaniel]

1800 cc VW engine?

Great work Cliff! You get out to the dunes often?

The engine in the pic is a 2275 and for sale
We go 3 or 4 times a year.