gbentink Turbo Upgrade Users Thread (3 Viewers)

[TheBigBoy]

You say pie warmer. I say superior cooling system .

 

[VK3FHDJ]

Gday G, what exhaust, snorkel and injector pump mods if any were installed, and will this vehicle end up with a large front mount intercooler or stick with the pie warmer

The vehicle had a Safari FMIC and swapped for a W2A.

Do you know what the issue with the IC was Graeme?

 

[mudbludger]

Ha ha I was waiting for you to turn up, thought you might like that comment.......

 

[gbentink]

The vehicle had a Safari FMIC and swapped for a W2A.

Do you know what the issue with the IC was Graeme?

Its was tuned by Shawn at Diesel Central, pump built by Wayne at Diesel Central.

Not sure exactly on intercooler issue. If the coolant boils then one obvious issue is coolant flow rate far too low. This is in my opinion the number 1 issue with liquid to air coolers. There are others, but this is number 1. Diesels are under high boost of long periods - so there is a massive amount of heat to remove on a continuous basis.

To date, the best results have always been with front mounts. Liquid to air can potentially be the best - just need a properly setup system to prove that. One is on the way.

 

[jackosaurus]

Graeme - Do you think it would be more or less efficient with the Safari front mount or is the W2A the better way to go?

 

[Tapage]

thats compressor surge.

so you are reaching the limit of the stock engine capabilities in terms of intake manifold / valves setup .?

 

[gbentink]

Graeme - Do you think it would be more or less efficient with the Safari front mount or is the W2A the better way to go?

Comparing air to air with liquid to air is dependent entirely on the implementation.

In the case of Bernies water to air, some testing needs to be done to ascertain the issue. Maybe coolant flow rate limited, maybe core design. Pressure drop across core wasn't measured so that may also be another issue. Testing will reveal all.

Both intercooler methods can be as effective as one another, the main benefit of liquid to air is packaging and throttle response - relevant in manuals.

so you are reaching the limit of the stock engine capabilities in terms of intake manifold / valves setup .?

No, definitely not. Surge is a turbocharger related phenomenon an is especially dependant on mass flow and boost pressure. Very basically , as a compressor wheel becomes larger, higher flow rates are required at a given boost pressure before the blades (akin to aircraft wings) stall the airflow - this is when the blades and air decouple (blades loose "grip" of the air) and the air flows backwards through the compressor. It unstalls, flows again and the process repeats and is heard as a pulsing "chuff chuff" noise.

In this case of Gturbo products designed for a specific operating range with inter cooling, if the inter cooling is not good enough, 25psi for example at 1730rpm (as in the dyno) at over 100 degree intake temps is the maximum boost before surge.

If we say 120 degrees C (393K) and we drop temps by a good working cooler to 60 degrees C (333K), then the mass flow at that boost increases (assuming perfect gas which it isn't) to (393/333) ~ 18%.

Another way to look at that is the onset of surge will rise to a higher boost level by a sqrt 1.18 factor (the square root of the factor is for reasons I won't go into). So, 25psi is a pressure ratio of (25+14.7)/14.7 = 2.7.

2.7*(1.18)^0.5 = 2.93 = as boost in psi (2.93-1)*14.7 = 28.5psi

On this basis, excluding quite a few other factors, the boost limit at 1730rpm is ~ 28.5psi before surge.

I have designed the whole turbo as a "system" to not quite meet this pressure based on turbine drive at the far and rpm in question

So, Gturbo always asks customers what mods they have, what intercooler and what boost they are happy with, and now you know what sets Gturbo apart from other companies in this arena. And this is why a turbo customised for your application is so important.

 

[Tapage]

As it looks like I need to go back to more reading .. surge it's just consequence of the air flow going back to the exducer ?and that can be related to the amount of air that your engine can flow ..

I mean surge can be at 28 PSI for me but 24 for any other using the cruiser at high altitude or without intercooler .?

Inside of my small brain, if you raise the rpm range for full boost logically engine it's consuming more air so it will be less prone to surge ...

On a related note ( or maybe not that much ) one of my biggest restrictions on my power production journey it's intake .. but intake pre turbo .. I try my setup with no air filter .. and wou !!!

I have one of these and live in the blocked ( change your filter ) even with a brand new Toyota washable filter ..

 

[TheBigBoy]

As it looks like I need to go back to more reading .. surge it's just consequence of the air flow going back to the exducer ?and that can be related to the amount of air that your engine can flow ..

I mean surge can be at 28 PSI for me but 24 for any other using the cruiser at high altitude or without intercooler .?

Inside of my small brain, if you raise the rpm range for full boost logically engine it's consuming more air so it will be less prone to surge ...

On a related note ( or maybe not that much ) one of my biggest restrictions on my power production journey it's intake .. but intake pre turbo .. I try my setup with no air filter .. and wou !!!

I have one of these and live in the blocked ( change your filter ) even with a brand new Toyota washable filter ..

This isn't exactly true. Serious testing has been done on the 80 airbox and design. No filter at all is actually twice as bad as having a filter installed. Graeme has some new air box's.

 

[58bernie]

Here is 1HDFT with Gturbo Bad Boy STage 2, very bad water to air intercooler (post intercooler temps 130C). Will be dynode again when intercooler is fixed.

this is real power at the wheels - ramp rate = 100, so nice and slow, power is at the wheels (no correction for flywheel)

Yes that is 35psi boost.....

Low end boost will improve when intercooler is working. You can see that at ~1700rpm its making 24psi on one run, then falters a little before it rises - thats compressor surge. Once the intercooler is fixed and temps post intercooler are dropped to 50 degree C or below, the surge line will move to the left and should move far enough to not be a bother

I hope so, I've got a great turbo and can't use the best of it.

 

[Tapage]

This isn't exactly true. Serious testing has been done on the 80 airbox and design. No filter at all is actually twice as bad as having a filter installed. Graeme has some new air box's.

what are you saying is .. filter allow better flow than no filter .?

BTW I did disconnecting the intake turbo hose ..

 

[TheBigBoy]

Yep, due to the air box design. Removing the filter makes it twice as bad (airflow wise).

 

[jamohamo]

1HDT transformed!

Thanks for all your input guys over the last couple of weeks.

I have taken the plunge. My 1992 1HDT 80 series is booked in for the following mods:
- 4.5 ltr air filter lid for increased air flow
- 3" exhaust
- boost, EGT and intercooler temp gauges
- Bad Boy stage 1 turbo
- modified inlet manifold (front entry)
- custom A2A intercooler (600x300x90 I think)

I hope it can make over 700nm and will post results when done.

The aim was to make it brilliant in loose sand and effortlessly tow a heavy van up hills on the highway.

Well, it is done (except for the airbox mod) and it feels amazing to drive. I've never had one of my LandCruisers push me back into the seat and that's even going up the windy hill of the Mt Dandenong Tourist Rd from Ferntree Gully! I'm on 35" tyres too with full fuel tanks (265 ltrs). I have a big 2nd tank.

I can also not praise Andrew at DieselTec in Lilydale highly enough. He spent an enormous amount of time making sure everything would be perfect and safe.

The intercooler is incredible. Whereas before I'd see up to 130 degrees on the inlet manifold and 450 degrees EGT (post turbo) I have now only ever seen 44 degrees and I can't even get the EGT gauge to register above 300. Andrew did his own tests and found the intercooler was dropping the temp by about 70 degrees. You can't really see the mods from the front and the grill didn't need cutting which is pretty amazing considering it is 9cms deep.

Unfortunately the other airbox lids wouldn't fit properly so that is still standard and probably a restriction to higher boost levels (current max is set to 27 I think). When Graeme makes his new airboxes available I'll probably get one.

Performance wise I can feel something from as early as 1500 but it really takes off around 1800. And the sound of that sweet turbo ... I should add that my clutch is now slipping so that, along with a general gearbox overhaul (synchros mainly), is on the list to do.

Anyway, what you want are figures, graphs and pics so here they are. What? A maximum of 3 pics per post! Hmmm. OK.

 

[TheBigBoy]

Nice... Great work.

 

[Dougal]

Nice work. I think your EGT gauge is definitely reading too low, does it protrude to the centre of the exhaust stream?

 

[jamohamo]

Well it was giving a reading before it went there for the intercooler and final tune and it looked to me like it was connected properly under the bonnet still. I don't know. I'll have to ask Andrew about it.

 

[TheBigBoy]

For others to gain some perspective. Stock 1HDT makes 100rwhp. So Jamo has just doubled his hp even with 35's.

 

[Douglas S]

Any more pics of how the intake manifold was modified?

 

[jamohamo]

Custom intake manifold

Any more pics of how the intake manifold was modified?

Yep! Basically as I understand it the guy in Qld cuts the top half and front end of the original off and then weld on a bigger top and the front opening. I don't have any pics of it uninstalled sorry. Also a pic of one side of the piping going around underneath.

 

[TheBigBoy]

Would be nice to have it a little bigger than that.