gbentink Turbo Upgrade Users Thread (3 Viewers)

[Enigma]

1HDT, eBay front intercooler, 3" exhaust. held flat out at 3000rpm contant on dyno for 10 seconds on 35" Tyres. Nice photo of whats going on. This is the "Bad Boy" turbo...... AFRS to be posted too as soon as I have them.

Power is at wheels (201hp @ wheels)

Pyro is Pre Turbo in degress C.

 

[Tapage]

pretty interesting those AFR .. actually I would expect something close to 14 or less ( rich ) making that powa ..

Pyro said still room to increase fuel .. couple more HP then ..

 

[syche]

EDIT: @ 201whp, 3000rpm (35" Tyres), the AFR was actually 19.2:1


Boost curve included.

NOTE: this is on an inertia dyno, so bottom end boost response is significantly better than on the graph. And the AFRS show up richer than they really are down low due to transient nature of the dyno. It is very rich off the bottom however, this will be tuned out as much as possible in the coming week. I think we can get it to 16:1. I wasnt there for this unfortunately.

Red line is air fuel ratio, blue is boost in Bar. Even in transient, the boost is 1.45 Bar (21psi) by 1700rpm and 15psi by 1500rpm.

Hi Graeme.

Did you try to play a bit with the timing to see if you could get even lower better response?
I had this done on my ex kzj 73 and it made a world difference on my fuel consumption and low rev engine response 800 up to 1200/1300rpm over that it was as before but a bit more smooth running.

Might be interesting to give it a try if you have a chance when you are ont he dyno

 

[gbentink]

Hi Graeme.

Did you try to play a bit with the timing to see if you could get even lower better response?
I had this done on my ex kzj 73 and it made a world difference on my fuel consumption and low rev engine response 800 up to 1200/1300rpm over that it was as before but a bit more smooth running.

Might be interesting to give it a try if you have a chance when you are ont he dyno

@ Syche, yes good point, next time we hit the dyno we will do timing as well and stiffen the spring that affects high rpm fuel in the pump for a few hundred more rpms.

Basically in the world of Japansese 4wd's, Nissans have been the only ones making good power. Even though the TD42 is a less efficient engine, the high compression ratio and ability of indirect injection to work better with lower air fuel ratios mean that they respond very well to turbo charging and can make some huge numbers. The 1HZ is actually a better engine design, but has weak pistons (keep in mind, Toyota had a DI Turbo, so this engine was made light to be able to rev, the best part is the bloc, crank and oiling system is all the same super strong design as the DI turbos!) and needs some head cooling enhancements. Once these thinsg are fixed (turbo suitable pistons are now available for the 1HZ) then Toyota has a line ball comparison and we are yet tio see any big power 1HZ's (I have seen claims, and Ive seen vids of "Zoltans" 5500rpm, 1HZ, but Ive also spoken to a guy who dynoed that car and it makes less power by far, like 30% less, than the 1HDT I posted)

But, the DI Toyotas, which are so good from factory, are harder to get power out of because the need to be run leaner (old style DI needs to be leaner than newer common rail engines) and the lower compression ratio makes spool up a little more difficlut. The two together makes it a fair bit harder. We now have a few solutions for different end uses! best part about the Toyota DI diesels is that they are very reliable on high boost, they just eat it up.

I guess what I am saying is that we are in fairly new territory. When the 1HDT comes back in with its new manifold and a retuned fueling, even as it is it should get to 220-230hp @ wheels. Then on the same dyno tune we will look at the timing, keep the fueling constant and start with advance and see what happens.

The dyno I have been using is an inertia dyno and I use it because a good friend of mine who happens to be the performance manager and is very experienced does the tuning and thats the dyno he has..... This style dyno doesnt load up tghe low rpm on a power run (thats the mode where you start at say 1000rpm and floor in in 4th). The reason is that it accelerates a huge mass, but remember rotational energy is to the square. As a result, at low rpms there isnt much load on the engine and you can see the low end boost response as well as it really is. Even so, looking at the AFR and boost graph you can see it go verticle at 1700rpm.... so it all really happens a bit before that. Once tune is done, I will take it to another dyno just to get the true curve down low.

EDIT: This dyno can load up electronically (at fixed rpm points) as well, it has a retarder, and that is what was used to take the "action photo" and videos Ive taken in the past of the 12HT etc. I did try recently to get a 1500rpm power figure on a 1HD-FT, but the clutch screamed "enough".

@ Tapage, I dont want to see too much higher EGT on dyno. In real life, even though this was at full power and held there for a while, the temps can be higher in some situations, especially when travelling really slowly, but in that instance you rarely have full power for long periods). Conversely the intercooler will work better at speed, so those 200km/h runs will have lower EGT's (and of course at 100km/h also it will be lower ). As for AFR, 14 is smokey, plain and simple. At 16 the smoke starts to clear and by 18 its acceptable. There is more tuning to come on this care, and the aneroid pin isnt set up high yet like the way that I like to do it. That will come. When tuning, I like to not go below 16 when you stand on it, unless there is a huge performance improvement by doing it. The turbo spool up is so fast that the initial puff clears fairly quickly anyway.

 

[Vegard]

Congratulations on the good results Graeme! Unless the rain starts pooring down again, I will mount the "bad boy" to my 1hd-ft this evening. Looking forward to tune and test

 

[Adam B]

200 at the wheels......

If it's all wheel drive there must be at least 25% drivetrain loss - so 270+ at the crank?

35" rubber, is it running 4.10 gears still?

VERY nice!!

 

[girraffe]

Graeme,

Would you recommend using an oil catch can for when using your Turbo? Just curious what you think about the oil vapors being fed into the intake hose pre Turbo.

Thanks

 

[gbentink]

Graeme,

Would you recommend using an oil catch can for when using your Turbo? Just curious what you think about the oil vapors being fed into the intake hose pre Turbo.

Thanks

I use a catch can yes, but the main reason is oil is a poor conductor of heat and I like every bit of intercooling efficiency I can muster. In addition, I dont like coking up or otherwise choking up my rings with non combustible solids from combustion of engine oil

 

[rideglobally]

20 psi boost at 900 to 1000 f on gbentink turbo

i have not re installed my over the engine inter cooler it is my goal to do that this weekend, but honestly i almost want to keep it the way it is (if it is not broken don't fix it), i turn my manual booster adjustment to a maximum now i am getting 20PSI boost at 900 to 1000F and it wants to do more, i will have to get a new boost controller that will allow more boost. i hope you are all correct about the bottom end strength of this engine. i did not build Nulla to go that fast but it is good to know that power is there when you need it. i am just happy driving along at 65 mph.

i wonder how much difference my intercooler will make and maybe my fuel turn up 3 full turn.

 

[Tim-HJ61]

Hello Amado,

20psi is about right and I'd leave it where it is. Unwinding the fuel screw will you the extra power you seek and refitting the intercooler will give more power on highway cruise - that is what I found.

Yes, your engine will always feel willing with this setup. I am astounded at the push in the back that I get at 110kmh/ 65mph and found myself easily hitting 130kmh+ when passing road trains a few weeks ago. Our open road speed limit is 110kmh, so I cannot take it out to maximum speed but I have no reason to believe it wouldn't pull to 4000 rpm in fifth gear given the way it feels at 3000rpm in fifth.

As a reminder to others, I've got a 12h-t with the first gturbo, 3" exhaust and a 600mm FMIC and removed fuel screw. Boost is 1.4 bar = about 20 psi

Tim

 

[gbentink]

Hi Amado (Rideglobally),

Great you have a boost gauge.

As for more than 20psi - the engine, for sure it can take it.

BUT, there is no point to it, if you do not have intercooler, it is not near its potential and running more than 20psi is not required in order to burn the fuel. If you increase the boost, the power will go DOWN for no benefit at all. Your EGT's are already really low, if anything they should go up!

The other thing is that when driving at very high altitude I worry about overspeed if you set boost higher than this....

Your tune for best economy at peak power should be for 1200F or thereabouts when under load for say 2 minutes continuous. The peak power tune doesn't affect part loads; this turbo will always ensure your part throttle EGT's are much lower than before.

It depends on the fuel pump setup, but most 12HT's will get full fuel around 17-19psi or so. As a result, with an intercooler and just enough boost to max out the std pump with the on boost screw wound out is just right

But in your case, after the intercooler is installed (economy should improve 7% if its a good one) set the boost to whatever removes the smoke at full power and nothing more.

Happy boosting

i have not re installed my over the engine inter cooler it is my goal to do that this weekend, but honestly i almost want to keep it the way it is (if it is not broken don't fix it), i turn my manual booster adjustment to a maximum now i am getting 20PSI boost at 900 to 1000F and it wants to do more, i will have to get a new boost controller that will allow more boost. i hope you are all correct about the bottom end strength of this engine. i did not build Nulla to go that fast but it is good to know that power is there when you need it. i am just happy driving along at 65 mph.

i wonder how much difference my intercooler will make and maybe my fuel turn up 3 full turn.

 

[troopie]

Hello Amado,

20psi is about right and I'd leave it where it is. Unwinding the fuel screw will you the extra power you seek and refitting the intercooler will give more power on highway cruise - that is what I found.

Yes, your engine will always feel willing with this setup. I am astounded at the push in the back that I get at 110kmh/ 65mph and found myself easily hitting 130kmh+ when passing road trains a few weeks ago. Our open road speed limit is 110kmh, so I cannot take it out to maximum speed but I have no reason to believe it wouldn't pull to 4000 rpm in fifth gear given the way it feels at 3000rpm in fifth.

As a reminder to others, I've got a 12h-t with the first gturbo, 3" exhaust and a 600mm FMIC and removed fuel screw. Boost is 1.4 bar = about 20 psi

Tim

I'm sure it will go to 4000 in fifth. I can do 160km/h in my 45 right now. Just did actually. Stock ct26 running 18psi bolted to a 12ht. My G turbo should be here next thursday or friday, so i will be installing it next saturday. I can't even describe how curious i am. Especialy since the stock ct26 is dying.

Small hijack. What would cause a ct26 to have major lag? No boost until ~2000rpm but it still peaks at 18psi at ~2400. No excessive play in the shaft, no more than new. Could it be that the wastegate is opened a little or the exhaust housing cracked?
It has more lag when cold. I couldn't believe how bad it was smoking this morning without pushing the silly pedal to much. I looked like somekind of redneck with a cummins diesel.
When it warmed up it cleared some.
I did tow a trailer for about 1600 km doing in between 100 and 120 km/h two weeks ago. What did i screw up?

 

[troopie]

Well, as expected i got the Gturbo friday and installed it this afternoon. Pretty straightforward job. There where a few small things. One, the oilpipe on the bottom of the turbo didn't quite fit because the flange was slightly to wide. 30 seconds with a grinder solved that. Second is the support which needs some modifications, but that is said already. Easy fix. Third is the compressor outlet isn't machined, so i had a really hard time fitting the silicone coupler. Some swearing fixed that.

First drive was interesting. I just hooked up the boost controller set like it was on the stock CT26. (18psi). On the Gturbo it didn't get above 13 psi. But it spools instantly and i used to have some bad smoke off boost and that is almost gone. I turned the boostcontroller a few turns and got it at 16psi now. It needs alot more turns to react compared to the stock CT26. Might be the controller (???)
With a lower setting it feels more powerfull already. Unfortunately my EGT gauge crapped out so i have to fix that before i will play with the IP. That said, i feel there is a lot more room now for more fuel.

I'm definately happy with the turbo and can't wait to play with fuel. Also, this turbo is quieter than the stock turbo was.
I can't see or feel anything wrong with the old turbo, but it got laggy and noisy.

Thanks Graeme!!

 

[Tim-HJ61]

Good to hear.

The boost controller will need adjusting because you have, I assume, a new waste gate that will likely respond differently.

Not sure what GB has put in yours, but one of the side effects of the Gturbo is that it spools so fast that the pressure on the waste gate needs to be stronger to stop a surging, open/ close/ open/ close.

He has resolved this problem from my prototype version, but yes, you will need to recalibrate your boost controller.

Tim

 

[Tim-HJ61]

G'day,

Following on from my posting just above, I thought it would be useful to post the PDF I made up yesterday to show the revised routing of the pressure lines for the aneroid and the boost controller if you have fitted an intercooler along with a GTurbo.

You can see what I am about to describe if you open the attachment. If you can, open your PDF viewer with a sidebar so you can flick between the two images easily. Mac users can do this easily in the Preview app.

Okay, so what we know about the GTurbo is that it spools quickly. Nice isn't it!

Once you fit an intercooler, there is an amount of air contained in that intercooler that acts like a sponge and delays the full boost arriving at the combustion chamber, that's called lag. There is very little lag with a GTurbo setup, none that is noticeable.

What we want is for the injection pump, IP, to see that boost as quickly as possible so the rack opens up and supplies more fuel as early as possible. Your current setup probably has the pressure line that supplies the injection pump aneroid coming from after the intercooler. This can be improved.

The way to do this is to disconnect the pressure outlet on the GTurbo that currently runs into the bottom of your boost controller. Disconnect it from the boost controller and run it over the engine and connect it to the back of the aneroid at the back of the injection pump.

Now take the line was previously connected to the aneroid and run it across the engine and connect it to the bottom of the boost controller.

So, now you have achieved two things.
One is for the IP to see the high boost ASAP, adding to the punch in the back we feel.
Second, is that the boost controller now sees real intake manifold pressure and manages the waste gate according to that. Sure, it might raise boost momentarily AT THE TURBO slightly higher than you have preset on the boost controller, but that will not affect the turbo at all.

The result is a smooth application of power, a nice vroom noise and a big smile.

Tim

 

[Tapage]

pretty wise approach Tim ..

 

[rideglobally]

installed my intercooler

i have installed my intercooler and rerouted my lines to the aneroid and manual boost controller as Tim suggested above and took it for a 30 minute spin on the los angeles freeway. the outside temperature is probably around 85f. here is the result 700F EGT, 20 PSI at one point i was at 24 PSI but quickly backed down because i did not want to break anything. i will turn down my manual boost control to 19 PSI as Graeme suggested. i am all smile!!!!!

my fuel screw is turned up 1 turn i will turn it another two turns tomm i am also wrapping my intercooler to keep it cool.

thanks Graeme and Tim.

 

[FJRanger]

G'day,

Following on from my posting just above, I thought it would be useful to post the PDF I made up yesterday to show the revised routing of the pressure lines for the aneroid and the boost controller if you have fitted an intercooler along with a GTurbo.

You can see what I am about to describe if you open the attachment. If you can, open your PDF viewer with a sidebar so you can flick between the two images easily. Mac users can do this easily in the Preview app.

Okay, so what we know about the GTurbo is that it spools quickly. Nice isn't it!

Once you fit an intercooler, there is an amount of air contained in that intercooler that acts like a sponge and delays the full boost arriving at the combustion chamber, that's called lag. There is very little lag with a GTurbo setup, none that is noticeable.

What we want is for the injection pump, IP, to see that boost as quickly as possible so the rack opens up and supplies more fuel as early as possible. Your current setup probably has the pressure line that supplies the injection pump aneroid coming from after the intercooler. This can be improved.

The way to do this is to disconnect the pressure outlet on the GTurbo that currently runs into the bottom of your boost controller. Disconnect it from the boost controller and run it over the engine and connect it to the back of the aneroid at the back of the injection pump.

Now take the line was previously connected to the aneroid and run it across the engine and connect it to the bottom of the boost controller.

So, now you have achieved two things.
One is for the IP to see the high boost ASAP, adding to the punch in the back we feel.
Second, is that the boost controller now sees real intake manifold pressure and manages the waste gate according to that. Sure, it might raise boost momentarily AT THE TURBO slightly higher than you have preset on the boost controller, but that will not affect the turbo at all.

The result is a smooth application of power, a nice vroom noise and a big smile.

Tim

Tim

Would this routing work with a 1hd-ft as well?

And a question to the rest following this thread, which boost controllers are you all running with Graeme's turbo?

Graeme should be building a turbo for me as I type and I'll be adding it as I get closer to the completion of my gas to diesel swap.

Thanks,
Nate

 

[Tapage]

I don't see why not ..

 

[Tim-HJ61]

I don't see why not ..

+ 1

I'm not familiar enough with the VE fuel pump. I assume it has a device to provide more fuel under boost, which is what the 12h-t aneroid does, so therefore yes, route it the same. The same principle applies.

What this routing does is simply optimizes the response over OEM in particular with a Gturbo and intercooler - the full Monty !


Tim