gbentink Turbo Upgrade Users Thread (1 Viewer)

[Dougal]

1000F is very very cold.

 

[crushers]

actually, you are right, preturbo 1000F is cold. my bad.
post turbo 1000F seems to be the accepted high, preturbo is 1200F and some say 1400F is acceptable (i don't agree).

thanks for the correction, i will modify my post.

 

[VTCruiser]

1000F is very very cold.

I've read 1200F preturbo is the recommended maximum, so I guess 1000F is conservative. But frankly, it's not that I'm so concerned about, it's that if I'm near even 1000F for a prolonged period of time my water temp creeps to uncomfortable levels.

 

[crushers]

exactly, the two systems don't run in conjunction at all, so it seems if you watch the guages
but
the EGTs fluctuate quickly and the water temp moves much more slowly.
you can run 1000F climbing that a mountain pass and the water temp can climb independently of the pyro since the combustion process is still heating the casting and the cooling system might not be adaquate to remove a continuious heat feed.
this is why i recommend running a proper pyro AND an aftermarket coolant temp gauge (and if automatic then a tranny temp gauge).

 

[gbentink]

I've read 1200F preturbo is the recommended maximum, so I guess 1000F is conservative. But frankly, it's not that I'm so concerned about, it's that if I'm near even 1000F for a prolonged period of time my water temp creeps to uncomfortable levels.

Glad to hear it is installed

Up to 1300F is safe, however due to the delay in response of pyros, this is only true in extended periods and 1300F isn't something I would recommend for extended periods. 1200F is in my opinion safe in extended periods.

I am surprised your engine is running hotter, is your engine inter cooled?

I suggest raising boost to 10psi if not inter cooled and up to 14psi if it is intercooled as a first go and checking out your cooling system. If you have 1000F EGT's and are having cooling issues, something isn't quite right.

 

[Dougal]

I've read 1200F preturbo is the recommended maximum, so I guess 1000F is conservative. But frankly, it's not that I'm so concerned about, it's that if I'm near even 1000F for a prolonged period of time my water temp creeps to uncomfortable levels.

1400F is the real maximum, it all depends how big a safety margin people leave themselves. The 1300F that Graeme recommends is safe, sensible and lets your engine perform well.
Stock non-turbo form I think the 1HZ's run very rich and likely very hot exhaust. Running yours that cold on 8psi you are probably running similar power levels to a healthy non-turbo engine.

If you can sort out the water heating issue there is room to run hotter safely.

 

[gbentink]

1400F is the real maximum, it all depends how big a safety margin people leave themselves. The 1300F that Graeme recommends is safe, sensible and lets your engine perform well.
Stock non-turbo form I think the 1HZ's run very rich and likely very hot exhaust. Running yours that cold on 8psi you are probably running similar power levels to a healthy non-turbo engine.

If you can sort out the water heating issue there is room to run hotter safely.

Yes, there is a safety margin in there The reason is simply that I for example have in my shed a 1HZ with 6 cracked pistons - it was running 14psi, inter cooled but very likely ultra high EGT's - the result of the insistence of some people here to run post turbo EGT gauges. 550deg C which is considered acceptable post turbo has been shown in some cases to be as high pre turbo as 800 degrees C! (1470F!!). I have seen a couple of examples of this. To be honest, if it were my own vehicle and knowing the strength of the internals, I would be much more likely to raise boost a little higher to control combustion temps for a given power output (fuel delivery) than limit boost and use fuel delivery to get the desired output. Also, some folks desired output is quite high, and setting it up in the city in cooler low average load conditions may be ok, but during the situations where reliability is important such as in the bush on holiday, adding a trailer, steep hills or long stretches of heavy sand etc may show the tune to be unsafe. There is always an aversion to raising boost above 14psi I think because most people consider it a 100% increase of the olden days "std" of 7psi which isn't true anyway, given seal level atmospheric pressure of ~ 14.7psi, it is of course ~ a 50% increase.

So, I guess it is a little controversial to the mainstream, but I would control the EGT's with cool boost even if it meant going above 14psi. From the perspective of science + experience in racing, I know this can be the difference between a dead engine on the field and one that is remarkably good, even perfect, after a pulldown.

 

[rideglobally]

I've read 1200F preturbo is the recommended maximum, so I guess 1000F is conservative. But frankly, it's not that I'm so concerned about, it's that if I'm near even 1000F for a prolonged period of time my water temp creeps to uncomfortable levels.

i know that you all are the gurus, so kind of intimidating to chime in, my engine is a 12ht with a Gturbo and inter cooled. at 800F pre turbo i get 19 to 20PSI boost at 68 to 70MPH on the freeway with some occasional incline, my water temp is between 180 to 190F (after market guage issopro) i have not tested it on a sustain incline on a hill or a pass, but i will soon as i get some time. again my engine is a 12ht so maybe this comment is totally irrelevant. right now i just can not imagine running my engine to 1200F egt. maybe when i take it up a hill i will find out just how ignorant i am.

 

[crushers]

you have run a pyro before and after the turbo and seen this result?
good to know.

as for using boost to control EGTs does work, more cold air charge the cooler the charge entering the engine but recommending 20+ lbs of boost would have me concerned on the longevity of the engine. how many km have you put on a 1HZ or HDT at those boost levels?
i am sure your turbos do increase the performance of the engine, any mapped turbo built to achieve a specific result should do the same, i would love to run one in the future. it is good to have another option when building up an engine.

550deg C which is considered acceptable post turbo has been shown in some cases to be as high pre turbo as 800 degrees C! (1470F!!). I have seen a couple of examples of this.

 

[VTCruiser]

Glad to hear it is installed

Up to 1300F is safe, however due to the delay in response of pyros, this is only true in extended periods and 1300F isn't something I would recommend for extended periods. 1200F is in my opinion safe in extended periods.

I am surprised your engine is running hotter, is your engine inter cooled?

I suggest raising boost to 10psi if not inter cooled and up to 14psi if it is intercooled as a first go and checking out your cooling system. If you have 1000F EGT's and are having cooling issues, something isn't quite right.

No intercooler, but my cooling system seems to be in pretty good shape. I've had no cooling issues otherwise with less than 10k miles on a new radiator and a DC controlled contour e-fans. I do need a proper water temp gauge and I never actually overheated badly. On one of the hotter runs the OE gauge got above 3/4, enough for the radiator to overflow into the reservoir. I don't want to imply it's a big problem, it's something I think I can solve with a proper tune and a little more boost.

 

[Dougal]

No intercooler, but my cooling system seems to be in pretty good shape. I've had no cooling issues otherwise with less than 10k miles on a new radiator and a DC controlled contour e-fans. I do need a proper water temp gauge and I never actually overheated badly. On one of the hotter runs the OE gauge got above 3/4, enough for the radiator to overflow into the reservoir. I don't want to imply it's a big problem, it's something I think I can solve with a proper tune and a little more boost.

Do you have pictures of your fans?

 

[Eric Winkworth]

1400 was around the temp of the aluminum furnace where I used to work... It didn't take long at all to melt ingots either and this was for gravity fed moulds which are very picky about the metal temperature you're putting into them...

I think about this frequently when I see my egt gauge anywhere near 1400!

 

[mudgudgeon]

1400 was around the temp of the aluminum furnace where I used to work... It didn't take long at all to melt ingots either and this was for gravity fed moulds which are very picky about the metal temperature you're putting into them...

I think about this frequently when I see my egt gauge anywhere near 1400!

a difference here is the fact that an engine constantly has a "fresh" charge of cooler air into the piston
I would expect to see temps in the cylinder and combustion chambers, piston crowns etc to be somewhat lower than the EGT readings taken in the exhaust manifold, particularly given that diesel is still burning as it passes into the exhaust manifold.

Id be interested to here Gbentink and Dougal's comments on this idea

 

[Dougal]

a difference here is the fact that an engine constantly has a "fresh" charge of cooler air into the piston
I would expect to see temps in the cylinder and combustion chambers, piston crowns etc to be somewhat lower than the EGT readings taken in the exhaust manifold, particularly given that diesel is still burning as it passes into the exhaust manifold.

Id be interested to here Gbentink and Dougal's comments on this idea

Yes that's correct. The combustion gases are a lot hotter than the 1400F, but only for a fraction of a second. It takes temperature at time to melt metal, the hotter it is, the shorter time. The cooler it is the longer time.
The piston is cooled by the intake air, the oil squirters underneath (depends on the engine) and conducts heat to the cylinder through the rings.
I have seen 900C (1650F) on my own EGT gauge (Isuzu) accidentally. The engine survives fine.

One consideration when turbocharging a non-turbo engine is the ring-gap. Because the intake air is hotter on a boosted engine the average piston ring temperature is higher so the gap closes more. It's only a problem if you run out of gap and the ends meet.

 

[fitzmooney]

This should put things into perspective as to what sort of temps alloy pistons can take.
The turbo Continental motor in my aircraft is allowed to run continuous 1650F TIT (turbine inlet temp) and 1750F for a short time during leaning procedure.
These are air cooled motors that run cylinder head temps around 400F.
With a bit of care in their operation the engines and turbos last for over 1800 hours.
PS
TIT is pre turbo.

 

[VTCruiser]

Do you have pictures of your fans?

Pics of install: https://forum.ih8mud.com/expedition-builds/167721-project-overland-10.html#post3440894

 

[gbentink]

I guess I should add that I have a GTurbo installed finally on my vehicle. I have been so busy doing them for others that I take a back seat :-(

Here is a photo of my engine bay. The piping is now vastly simpler than factory and I am very pleased with the outcome and look and under bonnet simplicty.

Despite being chipped to its maximum, the 1HD-FTE only requires 20-22psi boost to be nice and clean out the exhaust with cool post cooler air and free flowing pipework. All the gauges have not been installed yet, so I dont know what the exhaust manifold pressure to Boost ration is or what the pre and post turbo exhaust temps are or what the pre and post intercooler temps are.... thats coming in a week Also will do AFR's.

As it is now, there is a puff of smoke as the chip decides to dump the fuel which last a very short period before its totally clean (looking). I hope to fiddle with the MAP sensor signal to effectively get rid of this....

Power wise, using the "Dynolicous" and 2.85tonne (I took over weighbrige this morning - 2.84t) I got 155kW at wheels without torque converter lockup. So my estimate of 165-170kW at wheels seems about right.

Apparantly the "spill valve controller" which is a second "ecu" that intercepts the signal from the main ecu can be reflashed to tell the pump to flow more fuel. I will experiment with this

 

[gifu]

clean. if you have a chance, can you take a close-up on where the intercooler piping hits the intake; looking for ideas. Thanks!

 

[claytonHJ61]

hello graeme,

i am very interested in your CT26 turbo upgrade, i have a HJ61 12HT import sahara pretty much standard apart from 3"mandrel system and custom dump pipe, Pyrometer (installed in the dump pipe but soon to be moved preturbo) mechanical boost gauge and an LPG system, we intitally got an increase from 67-87kw @ 3400 and 237nm-352nm @ 3400rpm. but i detuned the gas a little bit as i wasn't sure of what implications it could have on the engine. it's been running fine for 50'00kms now and am happy with the extra 300km i get out a a tank for about 30litres of LPG. max EGt has been 700 deg up hill towing a trailer, it doesn't differ a great deal switching the gas on or off.

I have tried to PM you but your mail box is full (understandable from what i have read so far regarding your turbo upgrades). Have you had much experience with the D/GAS conversions fitted with your turbo's on 12HT's
any insight woulde greratly appreciated.

Cheers,
Clayton

 

[Enigma]

With all the upgrades that you have done Graeme, how have you found the transmissions holding up?
With no turbo mods yet, except my boost increased to 16 pounds, and a modified aneroid power rod, my truck is a rocket, but the automatic transmission is having issues now as it slips/shudders a bit on a hard take off.