Full floater vs semi floater (1 Viewer)

[cruiser_guy]

I may have the opportunity to pick up a '60 and a '40 series full floater. They may be missing some of the brake parts though. How much of the brake parts are interchangeable between a semi floater and a full floater rear axle?

 

[rick_d]

charles-

brake stuff on 60 series is same as semi float.

Be sure that the 40 series is late model bendix single cylinder type (then all will be common). The earlier 1975-1980 40 FF use a obsolete seal system and twin cylinders.

...A 70 series is same width as 40 series if you want that.

rick

 

[crushers]

I may have the opportunity to pick up a '60 and a '40 series full floater. They may be missing some of the brake parts though. How much of the brake parts are interchangeable between a semi floater and a full floater rear axle?

why would you want them?

 

[seapotato]

dead easy to throw rear discs on the 40 series FF. I have a pile of older ff brake s*** in my shed. lots of it's new.

 

[cruiser_guy]

why would you want them?

Correct me if I'm wrong but I was of the impression that the full floater was a stronger axle, not to mention that it will allow the use of a cable locker or electric locker as well.

The price that I may be able to get these for is much less that in Canada or the USA.

 

[crushers]

the axles are the same strength,
the load carrying is greater with the FF since you are riding on a 2 hearing hub instead of the axlshaft,
the FF requires more maintainence since the SF is lubricated by gear lube and the FF is grease.
a FF is needed if you are running factory elec or cable locker, this is correct but a semi floater can be equiped with an auto locker or a ARB <shiver>
unless you are carrying a ton or more of weight or have to have the factory locker then i recommend you stay away from the FF axle. the other downside of the FF axle is the torque is transmited through the 2 small dowels in the hub housing, with a locker these have a habit of workign a slot into the hub and sheering off. the 6 bolts are not designed to with stand the torque load generated and eventually work loose and sheer off as well.

the only time i run the FF is when it comes already on the unit. i would not pay extra to install one.
BUT
that dicision is yours to make, you have your reasons.

FF came into the "cool" status a few years back and suddenly everyone wanted a FF to be part of the scene.
one other point many FF converties will make is "if you break an axle you can remove it and drive home". this is true if you have a locker in the rear to power the one wheel or if you drive in 4wd home. i lost an axle on the way to Colorado a few years back with a auto locker. i drove from back water USA to Colorado in 1 wheel drive (wicked torque steer) which was about 1500 miles. (if the axle was a SF the incident would never had happened)

 

[rutbeer]

I had a bud that lost his SF axle going down the highway. It just sheared off....
I have never heard of that happening to anyone else, so I have to believe that there was a hard roll over or something that had happened to that shaft to weaken it previously. SF shafts are huge, I doubt you would ever need a FF. I run one only because I have cable lockers.

 

[rick_d]

<http://frontrangeoffroadfab.com/nfoscomm/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=28&products_id=58&osCsid=43df85c7f7e2ecd594021a9c23b35717>

solves the flange end breakage for the most part.

While I don't see non lock FF's worthy of a hefty price tag, I do see an advantage in function if the price is right. Worn spindles are the key "buy or pass" element to investigate. If the seal surface of the hub seal has beaten down the spindle side, skip the axle tube.

If the semi design were w/o c clip, I would be more inclined to support its use (ala many other axle types like mini etc).

 

[Cruiserdrew]

I used to want a FF axle for my FJ60, but the advent and availability of high strength semifloat axles ended that. If you just want a stronger (in torque) rear axle, look at the Polyperformance axle shafts. I've been running them 2 seasons now and very happy.

The c-clip is a bit of a hassle, but adds maybe 10 minutes to the disassembly job.

You cannot get the equivalent high strength FF axle shafts except for 80 series.

 

[Entaran]

After we rebuilt my 1hz a few weeks back and rolled off 400Nm or more of torque on a dyno, I was driving home today after a 1200km trip in my HZJ75 with a FF rear (no locker) and it sheared all 6 bolts and the two locater dowels on the left axle. No locker and it spat all the oil/grease out of the axle on my shiny wheels.

Ended up getting it towed. Also twisted the torque tube I think but we'll see tomorrow when the mechanic inspects it.

There was -no- load in the back and I was -not- towing. It did it because it had too much torque at the arse end. Am now seriously investigating either a full time locker or at least an LSD that works to share the load from the toyota LSD (read: open diff). I'm fairly sure we've destroyed the splines from the diff in the process, but as I said, will see tomorrow.

My truck came FF stock.

 

[VTCruiser]

a FF is a lot easier to service on the trail if something does go wrong...that alone is reason enough but I also think the FF is a better axle design in general.

facotry cable lockers are a plus too....

but the cruiser SFs are pretty stout axles and upgraded shafts go a long way. It always comes down to preference and cost/benfit balance, see what makes sense for you.

 

[crushers]

all 75 and 45 series trucks came FF from the factory.

the splines will be fine. i did the same and the axle got bent under the load of the 2500 lbs in the back. in my case it wasn't the dowels and bolts that let go it was the outter bearing had died and when the hub moved out the inner bearing went over the inner race of the outter bearing.
i have pics here somewhere witht he weight of the truck supported by the axle shaft which is now about 18" out from the edge of the box.
FF = maintainence in my books...some people love them, i don't.

 

[SuperDuperCruizer]

Cruiserdrew,
Polyperformance inner axles run $450 a set for the SF. I bought my 81+ 40-series FF for that much. Are you saying the Polyperformance inner axles are a more cost effective upgrade or simply a convenient/more readily available upgrade that equals or surpasses the strength of the FF? By selling my SF axle, I recovered some more of my costs associated with the FF purchase/upgrade. Just curious about your perspective since you went that route.

I do agree with Wayne on the increased need to service/maintain the FF. I'm glad I'm aware of the potential for the inner axle to work themselves loose at the bolts to the hub. I wish the three I had worked on were this way. It was a pain in the A$$ getting the bolts loose to pull the axles so I could remove the differentials. I probably would have still went the FF route even if I didn't have cable lockers. Big thanks to Rick for setting me up with the long splined inner axle for the front cable locking mod.

SDC

 

[seapotato]

not all 45's came with them. most of the american ones don't have em.

strength wise it's pretty much a wash. sf's always break where they neck down to ff size. comparing upgraded shafts is apples to oranges,

my reasoning for preferring the ff ,
same wheelbearings front and rear
, changing the third doesnt' require a jack or removing the tires.
easier to put tires on with the bigass hub sticking out.
disc brakes without using all that crappy domestic s***.
the ability to take all the c-clips in my toolbox and throw them as far as I can into the bushes.
the ability to just pull the axles/dshaft and drive home in FWD if something blows up.
there is more maintenance tho, half the sf's around probably still have original wheelbearings in them.

r

 

[lshobie]

Sorry to hear that Entaran, that seemsalmost impossible with the size of those studs and hardened pins, must have been quite the sheer force on that axle. Is it possible the studs weren't torqued properly? Even with 400Nm of torque I wouldn't think that you would do that damage.

 

[cruiser_guy]

Well I've never broken a semi-floater axle but I have sheared off ALL the studs on the rear wheels TWICE due to loading and bad roads! I'd think that the hub sticking out of the full floater would keep the wheel in place longer if the studs shear off. With a semi-floater the wheel is gone one the studs are gone, there is NO backup.

I'll look at the full floaters and decide based on whats there and how I feel about it at the time.

 

[crushers]

not all 45's came with them. most of the american ones don't have em.
r

i sit corrected, it seems you are right. i should have learned off Bruce that different markets had different options...my bad.

 

[Cruiserdrew]

Cruiserdrew,
Polyperformance inner axles run $450 a set for the SF. I bought my 81+ 40-series FF for that much. Are you saying the Polyperformance inner axles are a more cost effective upgrade or simply a convenient/more readily available upgrade that equals or surpasses the strength of the FF? By selling my SF axle, I recovered some more of my costs associated with the FF purchase/upgrade. Just curious about your perspective since you went that route.

I do agree with Wayne on the increased need to service/maintain the FF. SDC

OK-For me it became pretty simple. I have a FF on my 80 and think it's great. The added maintenance is no big deal, and there are upgraded axle shafts available.

With that said, I have seen NUMEROUS 40 and 60 full floats shear the hub studs and pins. (4 times to be exact in 3 years at Rubithon-one guy twice). I have also seen another guy break BOTH full float rears on the same day. I have also personally broken the inner axle of my own semi-float on the same trail. So when it came time to upgrade my FJ40, between the hassle of finding a FF axle, and completely going through it, redoing the brakes, and installing on my truck, it was just too much trouble.

So the Polyperformance semi-float axle shafts were a no brainer. Sure it's $400, but you are doubling the strength of your axle. There is NOTHING you can do, to double the total strength of a Full Float axle. In fact, even an upgraded shaft would still rely on the strength of the flange to hub connection which is not upgraded.

I suppose that what colors my experience is that I have seen 1 broken SF axle (mine), for which an upgrade is now available. I have seen tons of problems with the FF axle in the local wheeling environment for which no upgrade is available. Full floaters have a "cool" factor, but are not worth the effort for me in my wheeling truck.

 

[Tapage]

I already broke a axle in my SF .. 37" plus turbo and ARB ( happy test day made it to me ).. but I'm still belive in SF axles.

My next move could be a Polyperformance axles .. coz I don't want to fight with the hub studs in FF axle.

Don't get me wrong I recognice a bunch of advantage on a FF axle like easy trail repair with tires in place and daba daba daba ..

Bud after seen a buddy break studds in each trail in his FF .. no thanks.

 

[RHINO]

the reason i like a FF axle. no c-clip. but its just the c-clip i dont like. i made a hybrid semi float with mini truck safts to get away from the c-clips just for the safety of it on our modern high speed highways. but i ended up not needing a centered 3rd so i havent installed it yet. i thought i wanted a FF but the cost of getting one in the states is really not worth it to me. in our non heavy loaded cruiser applications, twisting is the strength we are most intersted in, there really isnt much to gain for strength with a FF IMOP. if i found one locally and the price was right i might buy it, but stronger SF shafts might be a wiser buy.