FF are for the verticaly challenged...
Full floater vs semi floater
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FF are for the verticaly challenged...
I FF is superior to a SF in every way. They wouldnt come on heavy duty vehicles if they werent! As for lubrication, the FF is still lubricated by the gear oil, you simply have to outer bearings to think of. Every rig Ive built Ive added, or converted the rear end to a FF. Usually in the process I install 4140, or 4340 chromolly axles as well. The axle has no business carrying the weight of the vehicle. The axle should be concerned with driving the vehicle forward!
IMHO.
IMHO.
all those poor hundreds of thousands, if not millions of SF that have had 2 jobs to do for hundreds of thousands of trouble free km. i don't know how they do it...
LOL!!
peace buddy. just playing with yah...
That's come simple .. uf you have a SF keep it .. and enjoy .. if you have a FF .. keep and enjoy .. if you break your SF and you have the money and like FF go FF .. 
all happy .?
all happy .?
I have a question concerning the hub studs/dowels breaking on the FF. Isn't this how the Aisin locking hub are attached up front? Are studs/dowels failing in a similar fashion there? If they are not, then this leads me to believe FF are failing because the inner axles aren't torqued to spec. at the hub.
Just from what I've read here, it seems like the stock FF is stronger than the stock SF. Unfortunately for those of us with FF, there currently isn't a high strength axle offered yet (unlike the SF). As long as one isn't available, then for those of you planning to go with ultra low range, considerably larger tires and lockers... SF is the only choice you can upgrade to match your other upgrades. I'm not ruling out a high-strength FF axle becoming available from the aftermarket in the future. We already see the long splined variety of high-strength inner axles available for cable & elec. lockers. If high strength axles for the FF do come available, I'm sure the SF vs. FF debate will resume.
On a side note:
One thing that hasn't been mentioned in this thread is the decreased strength of a locker of the SF variety. Since the SF requires C-clips, doesn't the differential require an access hole for them to be inserted to hold the inner axles in place? I haven't hit the rocks with the hard core guys enough to know the failure rate of rear SF lockers vs. front FF lockers.
Just from what I've read here, it seems like the stock FF is stronger than the stock SF. Unfortunately for those of us with FF, there currently isn't a high strength axle offered yet (unlike the SF). As long as one isn't available, then for those of you planning to go with ultra low range, considerably larger tires and lockers... SF is the only choice you can upgrade to match your other upgrades. I'm not ruling out a high-strength FF axle becoming available from the aftermarket in the future. We already see the long splined variety of high-strength inner axles available for cable & elec. lockers. If high strength axles for the FF do come available, I'm sure the SF vs. FF debate will resume.
On a side note:
One thing that hasn't been mentioned in this thread is the decreased strength of a locker of the SF variety. Since the SF requires C-clips, doesn't the differential require an access hole for them to be inserted to hold the inner axles in place? I haven't hit the rocks with the hard core guys enough to know the failure rate of rear SF lockers vs. front FF lockers.
yep, same studs as on the front, that's where the arp stud kits come into play...and yep I think that's where most of the strength issues come from.
sf's are more plug and play/ dumbed down for the simpleton crowd....
sf's are more plug and play/ dumbed down for the simpleton crowd....
lots of good reading for me on this thread, i actually tried to order the poly sf rears much earlier today, at 4am aussie time, they are sold out for a month i am told. i am starting to think ff is not the trend anymore, but maybe chromoly sf's.
One other advantage of getting the ploy performance rears, install them and you have a set of spare rears incase you manage to brake the poly's in the rear.
One other advantage of getting the ploy performance rears, install them and you have a set of spare rears incase you manage to brake the poly's in the rear.
I know you are WayneO. No biggie. Certainly SF are capable, I just like the idea of a FF and how you can still drive it after taking out that broken axle.... Amoung other things.....
I added a full floater set up to the Toyota rear axle on my LWB Samurai. I didnt want or need a hud system back there. I went with an FJ80 front flange plate. Super strong....
Picture.
I do recall some discussion about the ARB SF vs FF a whille ago...
I'm aware of a difference between the ARB lockers for a SF axle and a FF axle. Apparently a couple vendors only sold the SF type since it could be used in the front and the rear. When the buyers figured out what was happening, they weren't too happy. I think I came across the discussion here on mud a few if not several years ago. It looks like ARB still lists a different part# for the SF: RD124 and the FF:RD33 It's my understanding that the only difference between the two is the access hole for the C-clips for the SF variety.
As for the other lockers out there. Most of them appear to have the access hole & do not offer a different one for a FF. I'm guessing to reduce cost &/or the difference in strength isn't an issue.
Like I mentioned earlier, I'd like to know if anyone has been busting up any lockers that do differentiate for the FF and the SF. If not, then I'm guessing the difference in strength doesn't make it an issue. From my direct experience with ARB lockers, air leak related failures are more likely than mechanical failures.
I'm aware of a difference between the ARB lockers for a SF axle and a FF axle. Apparently a couple vendors only sold the SF type since it could be used in the front and the rear. When the buyers figured out what was happening, they weren't too happy. I think I came across the discussion here on mud a few if not several years ago. It looks like ARB still lists a different part# for the SF: RD124 and the FF:RD33 It's my understanding that the only difference between the two is the access hole for the C-clips for the SF variety.
As for the other lockers out there. Most of them appear to have the access hole & do not offer a different one for a FF. I'm guessing to reduce cost &/or the difference in strength isn't an issue.
Like I mentioned earlier, I'd like to know if anyone has been busting up any lockers that do differentiate for the FF and the SF. If not, then I'm guessing the difference in strength doesn't make it an issue. From my direct experience with ARB lockers, air leak related failures are more likely than mechanical failures.
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Yap .. tha'ts and the spacer block in the middle to put in place when you already have the C-clips on place and pull out the axles to allow the cross pin in place.
Regarding broken rear hub studs on FF cruiser rear ends.
My '84 HJ 60 has 380 thousand kilometers on the clock and has done a big percentage of those on rough outback Aussie roads with the vehicle heavily loaded and driven fairly hard.
130 thousand of those k's have been with the 6.2 V8.
I don't break rear hub studs.
I run the original 23 year old totally stock hubs, studs, nuts and axels.
The reason these studs break on some vehicles is simple.
Incorrect assembley of the hubs/bearings/ studs.
Also lack of servicing, or incorrect servicing, of the same items.
If you know the correct way to set the full floaters up they work fine.
If you don't, there is a good chance you'll break studs.
When I find the time I'll do a story on how to set them up right and how to set them up wrong.
Also someone said that FF bearings are lubed by the axel oil but this is NOT correct. Full floating cruiser rear hub bearings are lubed by packed wheel bearing grease.
Diff oil is prevented from reaching the FF bearings by a seal.
My '84 HJ 60 has 380 thousand kilometers on the clock and has done a big percentage of those on rough outback Aussie roads with the vehicle heavily loaded and driven fairly hard.
130 thousand of those k's have been with the 6.2 V8.
I don't break rear hub studs.
I run the original 23 year old totally stock hubs, studs, nuts and axels.
The reason these studs break on some vehicles is simple.
Incorrect assembley of the hubs/bearings/ studs.
Also lack of servicing, or incorrect servicing, of the same items.
If you know the correct way to set the full floaters up they work fine.
If you don't, there is a good chance you'll break studs.
When I find the time I'll do a story on how to set them up right and how to set them up wrong.
Also someone said that FF bearings are lubed by the axel oil but this is NOT correct. Full floating cruiser rear hub bearings are lubed by packed wheel bearing grease.
Diff oil is prevented from reaching the FF bearings by a seal.
Usually I am reading on the 40-45 -55 forum. Today ,I am here looking for things related to diesel.
Anyway I found this thread which is always very interesting. FF vs SF.
I am not even going to argue about the pros and cons of each.
What I wanted to say is relating to changing to disc brakes on SF axles.
I have modified a SF axles to FF axles using parts from the front. That gave me disc brakes and lock outs (drive plates ). I can also get flanged shafts into them.
That type of axle does good as long as I stay with tires under 35".
My interest in the FF was mainly for the e locking toy diff.
Anyway so I would say putting toy disc on a ff is not a big deal.
I read on this thread that it is easier than converting the SF to discs.
I disagree, I finished 2 disk brake conversions with all toy parts, about 2 weeks ago.
one was for 89 toy pick and the other was on 78 FJ40 axles. Both conversions are very simple and easily doable.
Now my big quetion is, If the axles are mainly used for offroad. with say tires like 39". Why can't I get axle shafts made (with the longer splines , and do away with the c-clips and install the 80 locking diff.
After the conversion to discs , I am thinking the toy caliper will keep my axle shafts in. I don't think I would not do that to DD , but a trail rig m,why not. Any thoughts.
Thanks I A.
Vic
Anyway I found this thread which is always very interesting. FF vs SF.
I am not even going to argue about the pros and cons of each.
What I wanted to say is relating to changing to disc brakes on SF axles.
I have modified a SF axles to FF axles using parts from the front. That gave me disc brakes and lock outs (drive plates ). I can also get flanged shafts into them.
That type of axle does good as long as I stay with tires under 35".
My interest in the FF was mainly for the e locking toy diff.
Anyway so I would say putting toy disc on a ff is not a big deal.
I read on this thread that it is easier than converting the SF to discs.
I disagree, I finished 2 disk brake conversions with all toy parts, about 2 weeks ago.
one was for 89 toy pick and the other was on 78 FJ40 axles. Both conversions are very simple and easily doable.
Now my big quetion is, If the axles are mainly used for offroad. with say tires like 39". Why can't I get axle shafts made (with the longer splines , and do away with the c-clips and install the 80 locking diff.
After the conversion to discs , I am thinking the toy caliper will keep my axle shafts in. I don't think I would not do that to DD , but a trail rig m,why not. Any thoughts.
Thanks I A.
Vic
i dont like it for the reason that since the pads are keeping the shafts in you'll be getting some pretty uneven and mucho wear on them, like you said its a trail rig so it prolly wont be a big deal but still. what you can do is weld mini truck ends onto the cruiser housing, then have shafts made with the press on bearing.
Yes I agree, actually after wearing out to about 3/4 of the original thickness ,the pads willbe even with caliper edges and the rotor will rub on the metal, not a good idea.
I have thought about changing the ends and make them like the pick up. Actually I like the preesed bearings , they are more tight and tightly sealed than landcruiser bearings are.
Man. it seems wahtever you do you will end up doing more.
I think I will just put a power trax locking diff into the SF and see how it goes. Only because I have one availabe. This truck I am selling soon. The guy who is buying it he wants some type of locker in it .`I will put the 80 locking diff into the ff after getting the shafts made .
This thread has a lot of good info, Iam glad I have seen it.
Thanks.
Vic