front tow hooks

[bloc]

why do you think it is 6T and not 11?

6T Mark is not same as the picture I posted.

I was of the understanding that the lines might not be in one line. Plus yours don't have the little tick for a 1. Though I could very well be taking that part of the FSM too literally.

Edit: starting to think you are correct.. 11T. Though I've been through hundreds of pages of FSM and can't find the tow hooks anywhere to look up their tightening torque to compare to the chart for confirmation.

 

[Taco2Cruiser]

Well, now is good as any...

Unlike other offering from ARB, the 200s tow points still use the same 10mm tac welded captive nuts. Then they still required the rather weak radiator crossmember to take the load. Longer fasteners, thicker hooks aside, they bolt to the same “meh” location.

I’ve now see on this forum, and seen in person two different 200s that had frame horn crush can deformed from hitting aftermarket tow hooks on the earth. I’ve hit my factory tow hooks also, the difference was the factory hooks bent upward, and NOT my frame. The best part of the 200 hooks over Tundra, ARB, whatever is they stick out the least. I don’t know about others, but I hit mine a lot.

So I’m gonna get heat for this, not showing some picture to make it true or something like that, but know that I’m restricted from it due to possible liability issues. We tested the factory tow points on a failure deck... it’s pretty strong guys, real talk.

So this leaves me with this theory, the factory ones are strong enough that you won’t destroy them. If you somehow do, better to destroy a cheap part that can be easily unbolted and refastened than fix frame damage (the proper way).

Just like in drag racing, we all forget that making something stronger, just moves the shear point to something else. Just because it didn’t come on a truck from the factory, doesn’t mean it is going to be better.

Take that as you will, this is just what we’ve seen. If you disagree, unbolt a tow hook and have it pulled to failure.

 

[bloc]

Well, now is good as any...

Unlike other offering from ARB, the 200s tow points still use the same 10mm tac welded captive nuts. Then they still required the rather weak radiator crossmember to take the load. Longer fasteners, thicker hooks aside, they bolt to the same “meh” location.

I’ve now see on this forum, and seen in person two different 200s that had frame horn crush can deformed from hitting aftermarket tow hooks on the earth. I’ve hit my factory tow hooks also, the difference was the factory hooks bent upward, and NOT my frame. The best part of the 200 hooks over Tundra, ARB, whatever is they stick out the least. I don’t know about others, but I hit mine a lot.

So I’m gonna get heat for this, not showing some picture to make it true or something like that, but know that I’m restricted from it due to possible liability issues. We tested the factory tow points on a failure deck... it’s pretty strong guys, real talk.

So this leaves me with this theory, the factory ones are strong enough that you won’t destroy them. If you somehow do, better to destroy a cheap part that can be easily unbolted and refastened than fix frame damage (the proper way).

Just like in drag racing, we all forget that making something stronger, just moves the shear point to something else. Just because it didn’t come on a truck from the factory, doesn’t mean it is going to be better.

Take that as you will, this is just what we’ve seen. If you disagree, unbolt a tow hook and have it pulled to failure.

So your advice would be... retain stock recovery points?

Maybe a soft shackle to reduce the mass if something does manage to fail and come loose? This would also mean keeping an eye on any burrs formed by dragging the stock point over rocks..

 

[Taco2Cruiser]

So your advice would be... retain stock recovery points?

Maybe a soft shackle to reduce the mass if something does manage to fail and come loose? This would also mean keeping an eye on any burrs formed by dragging the stock point over rocks..

That’s exactly what I do.

I’ve taken a flap disk to the bottom side of my factory hooks a couple times to smooth them back out from rock scars. But I also have a soft shackle with a protective sheath that helps in a pinch.

Inspection is the most important in my opinion. I feel there is very little “set it and forget it” when it comes to recovery gear.

 

[stonepa]

Well, now is good as any...

Unlike other offering from ARB, the 200s tow points still use the same 10mm tac welded captive nuts. Then they still required the rather weak radiator crossmember to take the load. Longer fasteners, thicker hooks aside, they bolt to the same “meh” location.

I’ve now see on this forum, and seen in person two different 200s that had frame horn crush can deformed from hitting aftermarket tow hooks on the earth. I’ve hit my factory tow hooks also, the difference was the factory hooks bent upward, and NOT my frame. The best part of the 200 hooks over Tundra, ARB, whatever is they stick out the least. I don’t know about others, but I hit mine a lot.

So I’m gonna get heat for this, not showing some picture to make it true or something like that, but know that I’m restricted from it due to possible liability issues. We tested the factory tow points on a failure deck... it’s pretty strong guys, real talk.

So this leaves me with this theory, the factory ones are strong enough that you won’t destroy them. If you somehow do, better to destroy a cheap part that can be easily unbolted and refastened than fix frame damage (the proper way).

Just like in drag racing, we all forget that making something stronger, just moves the shear point to something else. Just because it didn’t come on a truck from the factory, doesn’t mean it is going to be better.

Take that as you will, this is just what we’ve seen. If you disagree, unbolt a tow hook and have it pulled to failure.

Amen to that. Another real world experience that aligns with my own.

 

[Lester did that]

Based on my real world experience across 33 years of Land Cruiser ownership. the OEM tow loops make mighty fine recovery points. Never had an issue and I've been pulled from some nasty spots. But the ARB units do look cool.

We had to use the recovery hooks once. The guy that recovered us just said this one is going to be easy. Yanked us out hard, so no snatch blocks or soft flexible lines. Chains and brute force. I didn't agree with his method but factory recovery points and no damage at all. Sooo... The ARB replacements look gorgeous. If your eyesight is bad the bright red will help you find them? From a physics point of view they look almost the same. Looking where the shear points are they are the same. The anchor point is thicker on the ARB. But the welds and surface contact to the frame look the same? If someone can post up a picture of a recovery that failed on a LC because the factory recovery points failed that would help with this one.

 

[stonepa]

A long time ago the Land Cruiser front recovery point was just a hook on the extended frame rail that held the front bumper. Those never failed either.

 

[TeCKis300]

My opinion, but aftermarket recovery hooks are more for aesthetics. While the aftermarket bracket itself as a hunk of steel may be stronger, the way it is works with the overall system for varied recovery situations may actually be weaker.

I'm teasing out differences here which may or may not make any practical difference. But it's worth a discussion. Take the ARB for example:
1) The hookup point is further projected from the bolts. Depending on the recovery angle, this can and will put more bending moment, torsion, and shear forces on the bolts and frame. The stock recovery bracket has provisions for 2 different hookups and can be stronger for varied uses.
2) The ARB is surely more beefy. More beefy than the steel of the vehicle frame. If there were a pull such that it causes deformation of the recovery point, I'd rather it be the bracket than the frame. Controlled failure modes are things considered by OEM manufacturers, aka FMEA (failure modes and effects analysis).
3) Clearance. The stock bracket is rather low profile and therefore less likely to be the first point of contact or hangup progression.

 

[grinchy]

my trail tailors look the bomb

 

[tincan45]

I can't help but think there are Toyota engineers who were responsible for working out all the sheer/load limits on the factory recovery points and they are shaking their heads at all the aftermarket options. One might also assume the working load is at least the vehicle weight, and when used properly, the working load limits would have a standard 5:1 safety factor for minimum breaking strength. So, even with the OE tow points, the frame or bolts will fail way before the tow hooks.

 

[AZCRSR]

my trail tailors look the bomb

Agreed. I'm powder coating them blue to match the blue shock guards I bought from TT. They'll match my King suspension (and I like blue).

 

[grinchy]

Mine are red and I'm doing all armor red and it is way more slippery when red. You should consider red. I almost never get stuck on speed bumps anymore.

 

[CharlieS]

I almost can't believe I'm weighing in again to a three page discussion about the lowly tow hooks, but I'll pretend we're sitting around the campfire, having a drink, and this is worth discussing... my tow hooks were rusted to hell, the bolts badly corroded. After watching ebay for months for an affordable set of tundra hooks to replace them, I realized that the ARB recovery points were about the same money, and seemed pretty highly regarded. So I went for it. I don't like that they're red, I feel like I need a Jeep "trail rated" badge to go with them (I'm joking, of course!). Then again, I don't care enough to bother paining or powder coating them a different color. They just sit there, quietly waiting for a situation where they will come in handy. With any luck, I'll never need them, and they'll remain useless bling. Cheers! Anyone want a beer while I'm up?

 

[Markuson]

= 8/10 right now.

Prior PS. The ARBs definitely need rounding. They definitely can cut soft shackles without it. I smoothed mine bc they did damage a soft shackle, and that is bad.

PPS. I would still use the factory points if I had them...so no axe to grind here at all.

That said...
Just a thought on ARB design...since it’s a little weird-
The ARB recovery point’s elongated holes (as opposed to pin-shape round) are specifically because it’s really the *pin* on a shackle that the rope is supposed to wrap (and stay perpendicular to)...not the curve of the shackle... aif the shackle pin is locked at one angle -the shackle is stressed on weird angle pulls in ways it’s not designed for. So the ARB slot-shaped hole allows the wider pin threads into the hole so the whole shackle can pass through to get the pin out and able to move around as needed.

The shackle’s max rated strength also assumes the pin is always perpendicular to the pull direction & that the curved parts are allowed to bear similar pull weights each side.
So... ARB’s slot hole design is maybe at least interesting in that one way.

And no...I am NOT saying you die if you do it backwards... but in a super nasty pull, it could matter to your shackle.

 

[SQRRRL]

OEM. I don’t 4X4 the gnar. These should work just fine.

 

[RET2]

I almost can't believe I'm weighing in again to a three page discussion about the lowly tow hooks, but I'll pretend we're sitting around the campfire, having a drink, and this is worth discussing... my tow hooks were rusted to hell, the bolts badly corroded. After watching ebay for months for an affordable set of tundra hooks to replace them, I realized that the ARB recovery points were about the same money, and seemed pretty highly regarded. So I went for it. I don't like that they're red, I feel like I need a Jeep "trail rated" badge to go with them (I'm joking, of course!). Then again, I don't care enough to bother paining or powder coating them a different color. They just sit there, quietly waiting for a situation where they will come in handy. With any luck, I'll never need them, and they'll remain useless bling. Cheers! Anyone want a beer while I'm up?

View attachment 2258054

That is some serious corrosion. I'll take an O'Doul's please

 

[TeCKis300]

Comments from another similar thread:

First time poster and waiting for the 2016 LC release so I can jump back into a cruiser again. I certainly do not want to diminish the contributions bjowett makes towards providing options and input to members, but it is my opinion the LC bracket is stronger than the Tundra bracket in the load cases most likely to fail (sheer and pullout).

If you look at the combined thickness of the material under the bolts, it seems to be over twice as thick. Sheer stress is the force applied divided by the cross sectional area of the combined material perpendicular to the direction of the force. The sheer stress on the LC bracket will be less than half of the Tundra bracket and therefore twice as strong.

Compare that to the tensile stress of the large U member. Similar equations apply where the tensile stress is the force divided by the total area of the material. The LC bracket has a little over half the area as the Tundra bracket (.71" diameter versus 1" diameter). The Tundra bracket is strong in tension.

I won't bore you with the other reasons why the LC bracket is better (LC has shorter legs on the member that looks looks like a bowl, LC has a L section attached to the bowl with weld and fasteners as opposed to welding a U section to it). As a former aeronautical stress engineer though, I would prefer the LC bracket especially if it was powder coated red.

 

[mep1811]

Thanks for the discussion. Great pros and cons. I figure $90.00 to be cheap insurance just in case. I'm still planning my AK trip and need to be all set up for self recovery .

 

[bloc]

I think the point was spending the money might make you more likely to damage the much more expensive frame.

And that the “insurance” probably isn’t needed anyway, as the stock hooks appear to be adequate to do the job.

Personally I’d rather the fuse be the hook than the frame. But that’s me.

 

[RET2]

90 bucks might help get a winch line extension and snatch block if you're concerned about self recovery?