From 100 to 250? (2 Viewers)

[Jetboy]

Good point @Jetboy makes about the LC100. I owned several 100s and know the front end issues that can happen and if we can handle that and be happy, every other LC should be fine regardless of whatever designation Toyota gives it. If it left the factory with a Land Cruiser badge, it is going to be good enough.

We will find out all the specific differences between them soon enough. It just feels like this thing is taking so long for it to finally reach the market...
Local dealers here are saying we are looking at sometime in 2024 to actually see these on the lots for sale. Maybe the US is getting them earlier?

Just feels like by the time this thing is available and one is able to purchase it, might as well wait for the 2025 MY.

I'm sure they'll cut costs in plenty of ways. I'd expect places like fluid body mounts vs rubber. Probably sound damping, soft touch materials, sound absorbing glass, etc. I'm sure there's plenty of small things that make an lc300 better. I also like the styling better. But I also think the lc250 is a huge upgrade over the j150. It's more like 95% of the lc300 where the j150 was maybe 75%.

The downside is that it's also probably 95% of the price and it might squeeze out a lot of j150 buyers who can't afford and maybe don't need or want something so big. I hope Toyota also has something for that group.

 

[Land Caesar]

I have no doubt it will be good enough for the average American consumer. The previous generation LC's were something very special, this unfortunately is not.

A Speculative observation with no context of fact.

 

[GTV]

A Speculative observation with no context of fact.

Which is 99% of this entire 250 forum at this point.

 

[Land Caesar]

Which is 99% of this entire 250 forum at this point.

If The Opinion of yours is.. that the 250 is superior to the Gx 460 …

Then the 250 is more than sufficient

 

[GTV]

If The Opinion of yours is.. that the 250 is superior to the Gx 460 …

Then the 250 is more than sufficient

For you, sure. Grab one up and let us know how it works for you.

 

[Land Caesar]

For you, sure. Grab one up and let us know how it works for you.

I’d certainly hope the 250 is superior to the 150 or else Toyota is doing something very wrong.

Im pretty certain the 250 has improved upon the 20 year old “Land Cruiser Gx 460”

The Gx 460 is a sufficient vehicle for the majority of enthusiasts. Not all ,ofcourse.

If the 250 exceeds the performance of what is Being considered sufficient for most, then it seems like your expectations are Extensive and may be unreasonable?

Or Toyota should conform to the minority and what they need?

Built for Rock crawling and miscellaneous stuff like that?

Really?

 

[GTV]

Im pretty certain the 250 has improved upon the 20 year old “Land Cruiser Gx 460”

The Gx 460 is a sufficient vehicle for the majority of enthusiasts. Not all ,ofcourse.

If the 250 exceeds the performance of what is Being considered sufficient for most, then it seems like your expectations are Extensive and may be unreasonable?

Or Toyota should conform to the minority and what they need?

Built for Rock crawling and miscellaneous stuff like that?

Really?

First of all, this thread is 100 vs 250. I sure hope the 250 is better than the 150 but is it better than the 100? In some ways I’m sure it will be but that’s two completely different vehicles.

The torsion bar suspension in the 100 series does not make it a good rock crawler. And it’s not about rock crawling at all, it’s the driving experience I get when operating this vehicle that’s built like an absolute tank. The suspension absorbs everything, the steering is unaffected by rough terrain, there are no rattles, etc. It was designed from the first sheet of paper to spend its entire life on poor roads or no roads at all. The 120/150/250/Prado/T4R is built to a very different specification. Plenty good enough for most which is what Toyota wants as they are in the business of selling as many cars as possible.

 

[Rednexus]

First of all, this thread is 100 vs 250. I sure hope the 250 is better than the 150 but is it better than the 100? In some ways I’m sure it will be but that’s two completely different vehicles.

The torsion bar suspension in the 100 series does not make it a good rock crawler. And it’s not about rock crawling at all, it’s the driving experience I get when operating this vehicle that’s built like an absolute tank. The suspension absorbs everything, the steering is unaffected by rough terrain, there are no rattles, etc. It was designed from the first sheet of paper to spend its entire life on poor roads or no roads at all. The 120/150/250/Prado/T4R is built to a very different specification. Plenty good enough for most which is what Toyota wants as they are in the business of selling as many cars as possible.

Torsion bar front suspension is also utilized in high-end, low-maintenance vehicles such as the GMT400 and GMT800 trucks. They're well known for having minimal squeaks, minimal rattles, exceptional reliability, and tank-like lifespans when operating in demanding environments, similar to a Land Cruiser.

 

[TWILLY]

For you, sure. Grab one up and let us know how it works for you.

Do you have evidence to indicate that Land Cruiser 250 won't be as robust as previous US Land Cruiser offerings?

If so, what is that evidence? How, specifically, will it be less robust?

And, do you think there are ways in which it will be more robust?

 

[Jetboy]

First of all, this thread is 100 vs 250. I sure hope the 250 is better than the 150 but is it better than the 100? In some ways I’m sure it will be but that’s two completely different vehicles.

The torsion bar suspension in the 100 series does not make it a good rock crawler. And it’s not about rock crawling at all, it’s the driving experience I get when operating this vehicle that’s built like an absolute tank. The suspension absorbs everything, the steering is unaffected by rough terrain, there are no rattles, etc. It was designed from the first sheet of paper to spend its entire life on poor roads or no roads at all. The 120/150/250/Prado/T4R is built to a very different specification. Plenty good enough for most which is what Toyota wants as they are in the business of selling as many cars as possible.

I think you have a pile of the emperor's clothes in the back.

 

[Land Caesar]

First of all, this thread is 100 vs 250. I sure hope the 250 is better than the 150 but is it better than the 100? In some ways I’m sure it will be but that’s two completely different vehicles.

The torsion bar suspension in the 100 series does not make it a good rock crawler. And it’s not about rock crawling at all, it’s the driving experience I get when operating this vehicle that’s built like an absolute tank. The suspension absorbs everything, the steering is unaffected by rough terrain, there are no rattles, etc. It was designed from the first sheet of paper to spend its entire life on poor roads or no roads at all. The 120/150/250/Prado/T4R is built to a very different specification. Plenty good enough for most which is what Toyota wants as they are in the business of selling as many cars as possible.

Yes The thread is about the 100 series.

And the Gx 460 is Similar to the 100 series.

My 100 was a tank. Yet a Gx 460 is a modern version and similar in size, power, Abilities.

The 250 is modern.

So I’m comparing something that is even closer than the 100 vs 250

More Modern vs New.

Just seems like the real contributing factors are the hybrid 4cyl (That produces more Ft/lbs and Hp) that’s keeping the 250 from getting any respect

As if it’s junk before it even gets a opportunity to show what it has.

That pretty Silly or ignorant ,now isn’t it?!?!

 

[Phillyd2]

The Mustang II was named Motor Trend's 1974 Car Of The Year.

Slapping on an iconic badge and having some positives on paper is not the same as building an icon.

 

[Rednexus]

The Mustang II was named Motor Trend's 1974 Car Of The Year.

Slapping on an iconic badge and having some positives on paper is not the same as building an icon.

I disagree on the "icon" status and comparing the success of the pre-downsized Mustang to a pre-downsized Land Cruiser.

1973 Mustang sales: 134,867
2021 Land Cruiser sales: 3,711

This is a difference of 36X in sales volume. The "Land Cruiser" name only means something in the USA to die-hard Toyota SUV/4x4 guys. Your average Joe Public will confuse a Land Cruiser with a Land Rover and not know that one is British and one is Japanese. If they would see a UZJ80 in traffic, they'd think it was a a generic 1990s Japanese SUV and probably confuse it with a Isuzu Trooper or a Mitsubishi Montero. For a vehicle to truly be an "icon" it needs to be popular, well-known, well-respected, and understood by non-car folks. The Land Cruiser has never been any of those things in the USA and might never be - Toyota has a small pool of buyers to make angry by trying something new and different with the 250. They'll sell far more 2024 hybrid Land Cruiser 250s than they have sold any previous LC generation in the USA and the name will gain popularity, regardless of if the die hards consider it a "real" Land Cruiser or not.

If we had wanted things to be different, we should have bought more 200s. But very few of us did. We spoke with our dollars (or lack thereof) and Toyota listened.

 

[Land Caesar]

They'll sell far more 2024 hybrid Land Cruiser 250s than they have sold any previous LC generation in the USA and the name will gain popularity, regardless of if the die hards consider it a "real" Land Cruiser or not.

Exactly ^

Face the facts… the 80 series triple locked straight six solid axle was the last “Real Cruiser” the Usa received.

Everything since has been not exactly what the diehards have wanted.

Can’t make everybody happy.

Yet the 250 is a fine quality suv… regardless of some diehard Enthusiasts opinion

 

[Rednexus]

Exactly ^

Face the facts… the 80 series triple locked straight six solid axle was the last “Real Cruiser” the Usa received.

Everything since has been not exactly what the diehards have wanted.

Can’t make everybody happy.

Yet the 250 is a fine quality suv… regardless of some diehard Enthusiasts opinion

1997 UZJ80 Sales: 11,502. I can't find LX450 sales but it's supposedly something like 14,000 for the whole run.

Bulletproof doesn't sell in the USA now and sold only nominally better 25 years ago. If we buy a solid axle rig, it's a Jeep with a crappy Pentastar, or a 2500 Ram/Ford, which may articulate well but is a hunk of junk otherwise. Toyota offered us end-of-times reliable vehicles, we just failed to purchase them, so they stopped selling them. Why would they try again?

Meanwhile, my '07 UZJ120 (23,035 produced) is more than bulletproof enough for my uses and is chugging along just fine. And I get better fuel economy towing my 3,200# dry camper than a 100 gets with a lift and some other minor mods.

 

[Phillyd2]

The concept of what it takes to be a icon means different things to different people. And some obviously equate popularity with quality. Which I guess would explain Taylor Swift and Pet Rocks.

If Ford would have given the II a different name then fine. But they didn't. They named it Mustang and that my friends wasn't a MUSTANG.

 

[Land Caesar]

The 120/150/250 Prado’s “Are” LandCruisers. Just a different kind of LandCruiser.

Just like the 70 series is Different than the 200 series.

Or the 80 is different than the 100


Calling the 120/150/250 “Not a real LandCruiser” is Like saying ….

Infantry and Marines are not Soldier’s,

Only Green Berets, Recon , Seals / Special Forces Are Real Soldiers.


It’s that Simple.

 

[GTV]

Do you have evidence to indicate that Land Cruiser 250 won't be as robust as previous US Land Cruiser offerings?

If so, what is that evidence? How, specifically, will it be less robust?

And, do you think there are ways in which it will be more robust?

Did you see the pics of the underpinnings? It’s a 4Runner underneath. The T4R is a fine automobile but it’s not built the same as an LC.

Yes The thread is about the 100 series.

And the Gx 460 is Similar to the 100 series.

My 100 was a tank. Yet a Gx 460 is a modern version and similar in size, power, Abilities.

The 250 is modern.

So I’m comparing something that is even closer than the 100 vs 250

More Modern vs New.

Just seems like the real contributing factors are the hybrid 4cyl (That produces more Ft/lbs and Hp) that’s keeping the 250 from getting any respect

As if it’s junk before it even gets a opportunity to show what it has.

That pretty Silly or ignorant ,now isn’t it?!?!

I don’t believe it will be junk at all. I do in fact think it’s a pretty cool SUV.

LC sales sucked in the US for sure. It was too fancy and therefore priced too closely to the LX. It’s a shame Toyota didn’t offer the stripped down 300 (GX trim in Australia), it starts at ≈$66k USD. All the beef with none of the fluff.

 

[Phillyd2]

The 120/150/250 Prado’s “Are” LandCruisers. Just a different kind of LandCruiser.

Just like the 70 series is Different than the 200 series.

Or the 80 is different than the 100


Calling the 120/150/250 “Not a real LandCruiser” is Like saying ….

Infantry ,Marines and Rangers are not Soldier’s,

Only Green Berets, Recon , Seals / Special Forces Are Real Soldiers.


It’s that Simple.

Huh? Nobody is saying it's not a SUV or Truck, which would need to have happened if your logic was to be followed. Nobody is even saying that it may not be a dandy vehicle. Or that it will suck.

SOF members ARE different from the others even though they may wear similar uniforms. And they earned that distinction.

 

[GTV]

I think you have a pile of the emperor's clothes in the back.

Mmmkay.

The Land Cruiser is Toyota’s flagship vehicle. Anything that wears that nameplate should be critiqued.