For those with torsion bar questions (4 Viewers)

[TheRealPoser]

I understand what you're saying but this is flawed. Equally flawed would be to say if you're looking at the vehicle from the front then the drivers side (US) is the right side. It is not. SOP is the drivers side is the left side as you sit in the vehicle and the left side torsion bar needs to rotate clockwise from the same perspective.

The photo I reposted shows the left side torsion bar reindexed in the wrong direction, plain and simple.

Ah, gotcha. I fully admit I didn't look at the original post and so I didn't realize what you posted was a picture with previous instruction to rotate the wrong way. Thanks for clarifying, as I didn't mean to suggest that information was correct.

That said, my statement as a standalone statement is correct, so it is not flawed. I never said the picture and original instruction was correct. I also never said you were INcorrect. Simply stating that the CW/CCW thing can be a little confusing, but if a person thinks of the direction the bar is being twisted by the adjustment arm it helps make it more intuitive which direction the TB needs to turn when indexing for pre-load.

 

[Michael Scarn]

Hello all!

I have a quick question about the torsion bar adjustment. I have a 2000 LX470 with AHC. I have replaced the globes with brand new OEM ones from IMPEX , flushed the AHC fluids completely, check graduation and all seem to be in good working condition. I replaced the original stock coil springs in the back with King Springs. I also followed the 100 Series AHC Cheat Sheet by YOTAMD step by step.

After all is done, I'm able to get the cross level to be right about 0.25" in height difference, Front pressure at 6.5 and rear at 5.1.

But my question is: is it normal for the driver side torsion bar to be tightened a lot more than the passenger side? I still have thread left on the driver side torsion bar adjuster bolt, but it is getting really tight and difficult to turn clockwise, while the passenger side is still pretty easy to turn. Even so, I am still not able to cross level both side. Also, do I ever need to worry about breakage of the torsion bar when its so tight?

Thank you all so much in advance!!

 

[GTV]

But my question is: is it normal for the driver side torsion bar to be tightened a lot more than the passenger side? I still have thread left on the driver side torsion bar adjuster bolt, but it is getting really tight and difficult to turn clockwise, while the passenger side is still pretty easy to turn. Even so, I am still not able to cross level both side.

IMO, yes it is normal.
The left side carries more weight than the right side so in order for it to sit level you will have to crank the left side more. The factory rear coils are taller on the left for the same reason. I also have Kings springs, to make it level I have 10mm more spacer on the left than the right.

 

[IndroCruise]

Hello all!

I have a quick question about the torsion bar adjustment. I have a 2000 LX470 with AHC. I have replaced the globes with brand new OEM ones from IMPEX , flushed the AHC fluids completely, check graduation and all seem to be in good working condition. I replaced the original stock coil springs in the back with King Springs. I also followed the 100 Series AHC Cheat Sheet by YOTAMD step by step.

After all is done, I'm able to get the cross level to be right about 0.25" in height difference, Front pressure at 6.5 and rear at 5.1.

But my question is: is it normal for the driver side torsion bar to be tightened a lot more than the passenger side? I still have thread left on the driver side torsion bar adjuster bolt, but it is getting really tight and difficult to turn clockwise, while the passenger side is still pretty easy to turn. Even so, I am still not able to cross level both side. Also, do I ever need to worry about breakage of the torsion bar when its so tight?

Thank you all so much in advance!!

Front AHC pressure looks good, Rear AHC pressure is low but nothing to worry about, much as expected with King KTRS-79 springs and Rear AHC pressure will increase with load anyway (or you can improve with a small amount of Rear 'sensor lift' if you wish).

Front 'cross level' is within FSM tolerance of 10mm (0.39inches). By all means pursue perfection but 0.25inches of difference is not worth loss of sleep.

Australian-made King KTRS-79 springs are same height on both sides because that works with the weight balance on stock RHD vehicles in Australia. Stock LHD vehicles have more weight (driver plus fuel) on LHS and some Owners add a spacer at Rear LHS to add some pre-load as suggested by @GTV. More effort can be required on the Front LHS torsion bar adjuster.

You are never going to break the torsion bar -- the adjuster bolt or arm will break first but that would be very unusual.

Make sure that the torsion bar adjusters are drowned in your penetrating oil of choice -- especially if rust is present.

You can relieve some pressure by raising to HI height before turning the torsion bar adjusters but the effect MUST be measured when the vehicle has been returned to N height.

You also can (and should) turn the RHS torsion bar adjuster counter clockwise if that helps Front cross-levelling.

Don't worry about the actual height measurements at this stage, just make Left and Right as equal as possible, so as to equalise the load share carried by each torsion bar and to eliminate any side to side 'lean'.

If 'ride height' needs adjusting, then that is done later with the Height Control Sensor adjusters, never with the torsion bar adjusters on an AHC-equipped vehicle.

 

[Ape Mcnanners]

Amazing thread always find myself back here.

I am taking off the Ironman bars and replacing with stock lc bars does anyone know how to tell which side of the factory bars is front and rear? I believe the end with the part number painted close is the rear but I cannot find any info on this for the factory bars.

 

[Patassa]

Amazing thread always find myself back here.

I am taking off the Ironman bars and replacing with stock lc bars does anyone know how to tell which side of the factory bars is front and rear? I believe the end with the part number painted close is the rear but I cannot find any info on this for the factory bars.

Can't imagine it matters much.

 

[GVegasG]

Rear is about 23”. PS front about 19. DS front about 18.5.
Of course it is not right. I think rear is too high but I don’t know enough about this topic. My son had purchased Ironman foam cell pro shocks and spring 0-440lbs. Ended up installing on 04 LC and this are the results. I think reindexing is needed. However I am wondering if we have done rear spring installation correctly since I think that is only think could effect the rear height.
Is the spring sitting right? We purposely did want to touch the end of the spring to placeholder - not sure if I can explain this but see the pic.
I am thinking if I can raise the front to 21.5 all should be good.
Should left and right sides have the same height or not? Thanks

 

[TheRealPoser]

Hey @GVegasG, I think you're on the right track. I have the same setup except with the 440-880 springs, and when I first installed it the rear was really high, even more than you're seeing because I had no extra weight. Now it's sitting around 22" after a few hundred miles of driving and adding the rear bumper and tire. The weight helped, but I also think it settled a bit with driving. I was pretty worried at first that I went too stiff in the rear. I also tow a small trailer when camping with the family so I wanted a stiffer spring for towing and the gear weight. With hindsight I actually wish I went with the 0-440 and airbags. The ride is really harsh when unloaded. I run airbags on a 4Runner and they are brilliant since I don't have to pay the rest of the time with the jackhammer ride. I think you'll be happy if you don't add crazy weight full time in the back.

At any rate I suspect you'll settle a bit in the back with some driving. In the front 21-21.5 should be about right to get the right droop. That's where I'm at. Ideally the same left to right. I'm not exactly the same in the back. I used to be the same in the front after MANY adjustments, but now I'm about 1/2" lopsided in the front too. I just live with it because I can't see it and I don't want to pay for yet another alignment.

I have an Ironman front bumper with a 12kip winch, and I was able to get the droop right in the front. I can't recall now if I went with the pre-marked index or one more tooth. With the extra weight in the front I could get the front to the right height, but it used nearly all of the adjustment on the DS. PS actually still has quite a bit more room for adjustment. I only have a few more threads on the DS.

If you have stock weight up front you shouldn't have a problem getting the height. But from your picture you have a lot of adjustment room left. Just keep cranking it up left and right and you'll get there as long as your offset is not in the wrong direction. I was around 19" initially as well. Just make sure to lift the front end for each adjustment. I also suggest doing a decent amount of driving with some bumps before the alignment, as I had a lot of settling in the front. This is what I ended up with.

 

[GVegasG]

Hey @GVegasG, I think you're on the right track. I have the same setup except with the 440-880 springs, and when I first installed it the rear was really high, even more than you're seeing because I had no extra weight. Now it's sitting around 22" after a few hundred miles of driving and adding the rear bumper and tire. The weight helped, but I also think it settled a bit with driving. I was pretty worried at first that I went too stiff in the rear. I also tow a small trailer when camping with the family so I wanted a stiffer spring for towing and the gear weight. With hindsight I actually wish I went with the 0-440 and airbags. The ride is really harsh when unloaded. I run airbags on a 4Runner and they are brilliant since I don't have to pay the rest of the time with the jackhammer ride. I think you'll be happy if you don't add crazy weight full time in the back.

At any rate I suspect you'll settle a bit in the back with some driving. In the front 21-21.5 should be about right to get the right droop. That's where I'm at. Ideally the same left to right. I'm not exactly the same in the back. I used to be the same in the front after MANY adjustments, but now I'm about 1/2" lopsided in the front too. I just live with it because I can't see it and I don't want to pay for yet another alignment.

I have an Ironman front bumper with a 12kip winch, and I was able to get the droop right in the front. I can't recall now if I went with the pre-marked index or one more tooth. With the extra weight in the front I could get the front to the right height, but it used nearly all of the adjustment on the DS. PS actually still has quite a bit more room for adjustment. I only have a few more threads on the DS.

If you have stock weight up front you shouldn't have a problem getting the height. But from your picture you have a lot of adjustment room left. Just keep cranking it up left and right and you'll get there as long as your offset is not in the wrong direction. I was around 19" initially as well. Just make sure to lift the front end for each adjustment. I also suggest doing a decent amount of driving with some bumps before the alignment, as I had a lot of settling in the front. This is what I ended up with.

View attachment 3333833

Thanks a lot for the response. Nice looking rig. What kind of tires/wheels you running?
I have made adjustments with torsion bars as it had/has plenty of threads. Right now it looks much better and it is about 2” difference between rear and front.
I will check again after some driving.

 

[GVegasG]

Hey @GVegasG, I think you're on the right track. I have the same setup except with the 440-880 springs, and when I first installed it the rear was really high, even more than you're seeing because I had no extra weight. Now it's sitting around 22" after a few hundred miles of driving and adding the rear bumper and tire. The weight helped, but I also think it settled a bit with driving. I was pretty worried at first that I went too stiff in the rear. I also tow a small trailer when camping with the family so I wanted a stiffer spring for towing and the gear weight. With hindsight I actually wish I went with the 0-440 and airbags. The ride is really harsh when unloaded. I run airbags on a 4Runner and they are brilliant since I don't have to pay the rest of the time with the jackhammer ride. I think you'll be happy if you don't add crazy weight full time in the back.

At any rate I suspect you'll settle a bit in the back with some driving. In the front 21-21.5 should be about right to get the right droop. That's where I'm at. Ideally the same left to right. I'm not exactly the same in the back. I used to be the same in the front after MANY adjustments, but now I'm about 1/2" lopsided in the front too. I just live with it because I can't see it and I don't want to pay for yet another alignment.

I have an Ironman front bumper with a 12kip winch, and I was able to get the droop right in the front. I can't recall now if I went with the pre-marked index or one more tooth. With the extra weight in the front I could get the front to the right height, but it used nearly all of the adjustment on the DS. PS actually still has quite a bit more room for adjustment. I only have a few more threads on the DS.

If you have stock weight up front you shouldn't have a problem getting the height. But from your picture you have a lot of adjustment room left. Just keep cranking it up left and right and you'll get there as long as your offset is not in the wrong direction. I was around 19" initially as well. Just make sure to lift the front end for each adjustment. I also suggest doing a decent amount of driving with some bumps before the alignment, as I had a lot of settling in the front. This is what I ended up with.

View attachment 3333833

Thanks a lot for the response. Nice looking rig. What kind of tires/wheels you running?
I have made adjustments with torsion bars as it had/has plenty of threads. Right now it looks much better and it is about 2” difference between rear and front.
I will check again after some driving.

 

[GVegasG]

Here are numbers at this moment. It has not settled yet as have not driven much. Not sure why there is so much difference in rear.
If I measured the droop correctly it is 3.5in which is about 89 mm. Seems to good to be true.

Front Left	20.25
Rear Left	22.5
Rear Right	23.75
Front Right	20.5

 

[jLB]

Here are numbers at this moment. It has not settled yet as have not driven much. Not sure why there is so much difference in rear.
If I measured the droop correctly it is 3.5in which is about 89 mm. Seems to go to be true.

Front Left	20.25
Rear Left	22.5
Rear Right	23.75
Front Right	20.5

On some rear coil sets, there is a “longer” coil spring, and a “shorter” coil spring. On a US market vehicle, the taller spring goes on the driver’s side, due to the fuel tank being on that side.

 

[GVegasG]

On some rear coil sets, there is a “longer” coil spring, and a “shorter” coil spring. On a US market vehicle, the taller spring goes on the driver’s side, due to the fuel tank being on that side.

That’ll that is an excellent point. Thank you.
We knew about that but I wonder if we did incorrectly. Is there a way to check while installed?

 

[jLB]

That’ll that is an excellent point. Thank you.
We knew about that but I wonder if we did incorrectly. Is there a way to check while installed?

Unless Ironman marks the “DS”/PS” with a tag or sticker, there’s not going to be a conclusive way, but the passenger side (rear) sitting higher than the driver side (rear) might be a hint

You might want to look at the Ironman documentation, physical or online, to see if they “mark” the springs, and how.

 

[GVegasG]

Unless Ironman marks the “DS”/PS” with a tag or sticker, there’s not going to be a conclusive way, but the passenger side (rear) sitting higher than the driver side (rear) might be a hint

You might want to look at the Ironman documentation, physical or online, to see if they “mark” the springs, and how.

Their instructions say install shorter on driver side. I need to read more as there could be a difference between US and Australia.
Since front left is lower, I could increase that a bit which should lower rear right.

 

[jLB]

Their instructions say install shorter on driver side. I need to read more as there could be a difference between US and Australia.
Since front left is lower, I could increase that a bit which should lower rear right.

View attachment 3339819

From my experience, with US market 100 series, those instructions seem incorrect. I suspect something was lost in translation from Australian market RHD, to US market LHD. It is my understanding that the US market driver’s side is the “heavy” or “tall spring” side.

An example from Slee Off-road:

https://sleeoffroad.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/06/PUB-ome_100_suspension.pdf

 

[GVegasG]

From my experience, with US market 100 series, those instructions seem incorrect. I suspect something was lost in translation from Australian market RHD, to US market LHD. It is my understanding that the US market driver’s side is the “heavy” or “tall spring” side.

An example from Slee Off-road:

https://sleeoffroad.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/06/PUB-ome_100_suspension.pdf

View attachment 3339837

I will look for N/S and D/S markings tomorrow.
Post in thread 'Ironman Foam Cell Pro install question'
Ironman Foam Cell Pro install question - https://forum.ih8mud.com/threads/ironman-foam-cell-pro-install-question.1205570/post-13089244

 

[jLB]

I will look for N/S and D/S markings tomorrow.
Post in thread 'Ironman Foam Cell Pro install question'
Ironman Foam Cell Pro install question - https://forum.ih8mud.com/threads/ironman-foam-cell-pro-install-question.1205570/post-13089244

Looking at your pictures above

Don’t I see a “N/S” on that spring?

From the angle, shock in front, and spare tire behind, wouldn’t that picture be of the US driver’s side?

 

[abuck99]

N/S printed on the spring = Left Side/ US Driver Side

What seems odd to me is the rear left side and right side height variance. You stated measurements that reflect 1.250” difference between left and right rear- should be almost even to 1/4” after settling- and upon initial install maybe no more than 1/2” . Also (this is minor) but i’d like to see that spring end coil seated a tad closer to the stop.

Ive had the toy13b installed before (older yellow version) and they were within .250 of each other. Recently tried a new set of toy25c (400-800 constant) and there was a noticeable height variance (over 1”) between the two sides that would have required spacer to correct. Point being I think theres been a change in their production spec- (planned or unplanned).

Currently running OME 2864 and they are within 0.125 each side.

 

[GVegasG]

Confirmed in the morning that N/S is indeed installed on the driver side. That is a good news. Good eye @jLB.
@abuck99 I have the same concern about the end of spring not being rotated all the way or closer. Not sure if it will make a difference or not but it might help.
I am going to change rear upper control arms, at least the passenger as it is shot completely. Maybe I can turn the springs a bit.
My driveway or the garage is not even. I need to find even ground and do my measurements again.
Thanks a lot for the input.