Flipping the rear springs?

[Mark W]

So It looks like I need to replace the rear springs.... My next question.... As far as I can tell from what has been said (I may have missed a piece or two) but from what I can see, It would seem that the way to go if you want more suspension travel and a softer ride then the 55 springs are basically the way to go.... can you get away with using some second hand ones? also if I put a set of 55 springs in the rear does the axle stay in the same place? or does the Wheel Base increase? is there anything that needs to be done to the springs to fit them? or is it a basic unbolt and bolt back in the 55 springs?

Obviously my lift I have currently will drop down but I would imagine the 33" tyres to still fit under the guards ok.... it will be a bit higher than stock with the extended shackles?

Thanks! I love the idea of getting some decent travel from stock mounts! and if there are next to no mods to the 55 springs it is gonna be a piece of cake!

New '55 springs are like hens teeth. Everyone uses used ones. '55 springs move the axle back about 4 inches from you OEM axle location.

You need to use special "conversion" bushings with '55 OD and '40 ID. Or sleeve the pins in the bushings.

The longer shackle adds very little lift. Not enough to matter. It is at a very shallow angle. The purpose of the longer shackles is to keep the springs from running out of room to go flat. To use a long enough shackle to add any significant lift would make it overly long.



Mark...

 

[nzdncjw]

Well I managed to find a set of 55 rear springs tonight - just gotta sort a price out... Whats a good price for a 2nd hand set of springs? also gotta sort out shipping but thats no biggy.... Quite happy about that - just gotta sort out a place to get my driveshaft lengthened and also the conversion bushing.

Thanks heaps for the tips and advice - have saved me some time and effort!

 

[69cruzer]

You use the '55 rear springs under the front of the '40 too.



Mark...

that makes sense. anyone running this setup?
sounds like a good idea but dont know anyone running it down here.

 

[Mark W]

I'm running '55 springs front and rear under one pf my rigs. Did another F+R swap for a guy last year. I've got the rig in the shop right now (mine) about to swap out the rears for '45 wagon rears. Another 2 inches of wheelbase, 4 inches total spring length, mil wrap at both ends and a much more significant bevel/taper one each spring leaf. Seemingly a bit stronger/firmer too.

I love the '55 spring swap. The '45s should work even better for the way I use the rig.


Mark...


Mark...

 

[69cruzer]

I'm running '55 springs front and rear under one pf my rigs. Did another F+R swap for a guy last year. I've got the rig in the shop right now (mine) about to swap out the rears for '45 wagon rears. Another 2 inches of wheelbase, 4 inches total spring length, mil wrap at both ends and a much more significant bevel/taper one each spring leaf. Seemingly a bit stronger/firmer too.

I love the '55 spring swap. The '45s should work even better for the way I use the rig.


Mark...


Mark...

i would love to see pics of this. specifically the difference in departure angle from the extra spring length. What size tires? If they are big enough should be a bitchen setup.

 

[PabloCruise]

I'm running '55 springs front and rear under one pf my rigs. Did another F+R swap for a guy last year. I've got the rig in the shop right now (mine) about to swap out the rears for '45 wagon rears. Another 2 inches of wheelbase, 4 inches total spring length, mil wrap at both ends and a much more significant bevel/taper one each spring leaf. Seemingly a bit stronger/firmer too.

I love the '55 spring swap. The '45s should work even better for the way I use the rig.


Mark...


Mark...

Just to clarify, you are talking about running these springs with SOA and getting your lift that way, correct?

Just wanted to get that straight for those asking about shackle lift...

 

[richardmvaldez]

OK this is not that strait forward as it sounds here are some thing you will need to consider before you do this. the back axial move back about 3in if you repack the springs so that all spring are still facing forward and you only re drill the military rap to leave it in the forward potion and only reversing the carer spring, yes sharp bits and a new screws, a new drive shaft, you can use one half of the front drive shaft out of a 79 to 89 FWD miny Toyota truck the CV half this will bolt to the transfer case and you will slide in the back half of your original shaft that fit together 76 up as far as i know may be before check let some one chime in, you will need to chop the back wheel wells to fit the tires, this will let you fit 35 on stock springs. so maybe try this before you buy the lift kit you also may need to make new shackles to even the stance. i did this when i reverse shackled the front moving it out 1.5 in and 1.5 in down manofee kit as i recall

i think this is about the right set up for the cruising i do just me though

good luck

 

[fc187]

wtf?

 

[Mark W]

i would love to see pics of this. specifically the difference in departure angle from the extra spring length. What size tires? If they are big enough should be a bitchen setup.

I'm running 39.5x18 boggers on this rig. FF rear axle with Toyota disc brakes, 5.29s and lockrights F+R at the moment. Cable lockers waiting to go in.


Mark...

 

[Mark W]

Just to clarify, you are talking about running these springs with SOA and getting your lift that way, correct?

Just wanted to get that straight for those asking about shackle lift...

Yep. '55 springs in and of themselves don't really provide much/any lift.


Mark...

 

[nzdncjw]

So I have a question now.... IF I wasn't interested in the extra 4" of Wheel Base (I wouldn't complain if I had it) But if I wasn't and the extra bits and pieces to colect like drive shaft etc.... if all I wanted was more travel etc would it not be better to just get a couple of new leaves made up that are the length of 55 springs? there is a local shop here in town that makes suspension kits etc.

Can someone give me a measurment of the rear spring eye to eye? If I just get a few leaves swapped I won't have to change the drive shaft, cut my guards and I will still have my 4" lift....

So yeah if anyone can give me the measurement that would be awesome!

Thanks!

This has beena great thread to sort out my issues of suspension!

Chris

 

[Mark W]

Either I'm not understanding your comments, or you're not understanding the whole '55 spring thing.

Swapping these springs in does not give you lift. It gives you a longer spring. It moves you axle toward the end of the rig. The gain in flex and wheelbase go hand in hand.

If you added '55 length leaves to your '40 spring, you'd have leaves extending out past the end of the spring pack and the frame mount of the spring.


Mark...

 

[nzdncjw]

fj40 spring

I'm not after a 'lift' I already have a 4" one.... I was just curious as to whether or not I could get the flex the 55 springs give without the longer wheel base..... so getting my 40 series pack made to a similar length as the 55 series it could possibly achieve this?!? (from what has been said no spring mounts etc need shifting only longer shackles are needed to allow springs to flatten on full compression I have these) so my thoughts would be it would work if no mounts need moving? By doing this I would keep my lift not have to change drive shafts etc...

Currently my spring pack is too short the rear shackles are angled forward on about a 5 deg angle hense the ride is nice and firm on the open road but there is NO droop and it is useless off road...

This is a pic sitting flat with normal load in truck, note the shackle angle

This is a pic of the truck with back left and front right tyres JUST touching the ground..... basically full droop there is still heaps of travel left in the shock.... I believe because the shackle is like it is in the first pic - also with the curve in the spring there is no way the wheel can drop....

Thanks for ya coments!!!

 

[69cruzer]

looks like you just need to lose the lift springs and get yourself a spring over with some good used 40 springs. no need to half ass it and regret it later. everyone i know that ran lift springs and tried to get them to work went spring over in the end and loved it, including myself. however the easiest thing would be you could move your shackle hanger on the frame. your trying to polish a turd.

I'm not after a 'lift' I already have a 4" one.... I was just curious as to whether or not I could get the flex the 55 springs give without the longer wheel base..... so getting my 40 series pack made to a similar length as the 55 series it could possibly achieve this?!? (from what has been said no spring mounts etc need shifting only longer shackles are needed to allow springs to flatten on full compression I have these) so my thoughts would be it would work if no mounts need moving? By doing this I would keep my lift not have to change drive shafts etc...

Currently my spring pack is too short the rear shackles are angled forward on about a 5 deg angle hense the ride is nice and firm on the open road but there is NO droop and it is useless off road...

This is a pic sitting flat with normal load in truck, note the shackle angle

This is a pic of the truck with back left and front right tyres JUST touching the ground..... basically full droop there is still heaps of travel left in the shock.... I believe because the shackle is like it is in the first pic - also with the curve in the spring there is no way the wheel can drop....

Thanks for ya coments!!!

 

[fc187]

WOW!
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I think I get where you are comming from? Custom main leafs that would extend the shackle side of the pack, while maintaining the same short side measurement of a 40 pack?

possible,..but I honestly dont think the gain will be worth the effort.

if you are counting on your fj40 lift springs for the lift and a longer custom main leaf to kick the shackle out, you are doing two nasty things. you ar putting ALLOT of stress on that longer leaf where it hangs off of the shorter 40 pack, AND... now that relaxed shackle angle will not allow that arched lift pack to flatten out. and with your arched out lift springs, I dont think its gonna give you much more droop. really.

10-12 years ago, this thread had its place. experementing with different spring combos to try and get the most out of a SUA rig was the talk.

today,... its simple. 4 links are no doubt superior...... SOA suspensions are proven and cheap and WORK!..... SUA with lift springs are the easy way out, but they are a compramise, and will not net you the ride or articulation that hold outs scratch and claw to gain.

If you are happy with your rig and happy with the way your lift springs sit,...thats great!. if youre content with its trail performance,.... thats awsome!

BUT if your not...pleas dont waste your time and money on trying to make it work.

Even though baby steps cost less than big steps, and thats their appeal to most, what they dont take into consideration is how many more little tiny baby steps it takes to get to where you wanna be, and how much more it will cost you in the end when you finnaly take that step to a spring over and realize how much time and effort and $ you BLEW on "trying to polish a turd"

Been there, Done that

So I have a question now.... IF I wasn't interested in the extra 4" of Wheel Base (I wouldn't complain if I had it) But if I wasn't and the extra bits and pieces to colect like drive shaft etc.... if all I wanted was more travel etc would it not be better to just get a couple of new leaves made up that are the length of 55 springs? there is a local shop here in town that makes suspension kits etc.

Can someone give me a measurment of the rear spring eye to eye? If I just get a few leaves swapped I won't have to change the drive shaft, cut my guards and I will still have my 4" lift....

So yeah if anyone can give me the measurement that would be awesome!

Thanks!

This has beena great thread to sort out my issues of suspension!

Chris

 

[fc187]

here is a pic of a rig I just finished (same as previous pics)

stock fj40 spring in the front, flipped and redrilled MW

stock 55's in the rear with 6" shackle

all hangers are in the stock locations......

 

[Odyseuss]

I hate to ask a stupid question or take this off topic but, while were at it what are the pros/cons of redrilling a 40 front spring while fliping it? Isn' it to keep the military wrap in front and prevent from bending the main leaf. Have you ever heard of someone breaking a spring cause it was redrilled. Does it matter if its a shackle reversal or not?

 

[1973Guppie]

not a stupid question at all, you have to redrill the 40 spring packs top leafs so the mil wrap goes to the frame end. 40 springs have one short and one long end thus by drilling the axle is located in the proper place. From what I have read this is not necessary with the 55 springs as they are about equal length from center to end on each side.

Noah

 

[Mark W]

I've never heard of anyone breaking a leaf due to redrilling it.

The mil wrap needs to be on the frame hanger end of the spring. It's purpose is to keep the spring located more or less where it should be if the main leaf breaks. SOme springs use mil-wraps on both ends. Some have none. If you have it on one end only, you want it on the frame. You can drive hime with the shackle end of the sprung broken off. But if the frame end is not located then the axle can shift under the rig. A lot.


Mark...

 

[fc187]

Does it matter if its a shackle reversal or not?

if you are doing a SR on the front AND flipping the spring. you dont need to drill sh*t. just slap the SOB on