FJ40 in tank EFI fuel pump (2 Viewers)

[B y r o n]

So I'm playing with the idea of swapping my 4 barrel carb (SBC) for an EFI unit. I don't care for the cost but will enjoy the more reliable nature of EFI, especially when reaching any altitudes.

I know you can do pumps outside the factory tank but I've been looking at a couple of different in tank options; Aeromotive Phantom and another from Tanks Inc..

In my research I've discovered that a C5 Corvette fuel filter and be installed outside the tank and serves the function of pressure regulator/filter and fuel return. I was thinking of mounting this inside the cab next to the tank and that way I could use the fuel line out hole for the EFI fuel line to the engine.

In mocking things up I'm not sure if there is enough room between the passenger seat and tank for this to work and was wondering if anyone else has already done it and what were your results and parts used.

I was thinking of this locations for the pump access hole:

Any input would be appreciated.

 

[JTeeg]

Mounted my fuel pump along with the fuel pressure regulator
on the frame rail. I only hear the pump briefly when starting. Corvette FPR is definitely the way to go, but would not mount it inside the cab.

 

[sadam_husain]

I also did mine with an external pump mounted on the frame rail and the efi filter mounted on the firewall just before the throttle body, been running for about 18 months now and had no probs with the setup its all easy, simple and reliable, its using an msd pump and runs quiet you cant hear it unlike the bosch 044 pump on my other cruiser, I've got the later model tub with the fuel tank underneath the floor so that probably made my decision and installation easier.

 

[Clutchee]

Im running AFI fuel injection on my 327 in my 40.
The fuel pump is on frame rail; under the fuel tank- like the pic above.
Easy to get to in repair situation.

 

[mdsims]

The Corvette FPRs I saw were fixed at 58psi. My understanding was the 3FE was looking for something like minimum 43psi at the pump. Do you happen to know what pressure the stock regulator drops it to at the rail? (is it also 43psi?).

It would be nice to find an adjustable FPR, similar build to the Corvette unit (filter, FPR, return) all in one.

 

[White Stripe]

One thing I think of when considering a in-tank pump is the tanks baffle design. EFI Tanks are designed with baffle positions made to keep fuel in a specific fuel pick up location when fuel level is getting low. So just dropping in a fuel pump in a older non EFI tank may cause fuel pickup issues when running low on fuel.

 

[JTeeg]

The Corvette FPRs I saw were fixed at 58psi. My understanding was the 3FE was looking for something like minimum 43psi at the pump. Do you happen to know what pressure the stock regulator drops it to at the rail? (is it also 43psi?).

Not sure about Toyota, but most OEM systems (except GM) are 2 bar. So unless you have access to a tunning program to adjust fuel injector parameters, I would stick with the 3FE FPR ( + I believe it uses manifold pressure to adjust fuel pressure).

 

[B y r o n]

Mounted my fuel pump along with the fuel pressure regulator
on the frame rail. I only hear the pump briefly when starting. Corvette FPR is definitely the way to go, but would not mount it inside the cab.

Is there a specific reason you would not mount it in the cab?

 

[B y r o n]

Im running AFI fuel injection on my 327 in my 40.
The fuel pump is on frame rail; under the fuel tank- like the pic above.
Easy to get to in repair situation.

I hadn't run across AFI before so now more shopping research is needed.

 

[B y r o n]

The Corvette FPRs I saw were fixed at 58psi. My understanding was the 3FE was looking for something like minimum 43psi at the pump. Do you happen to know what pressure the stock regulator drops it to at the rail? (is it also 43psi?).

It would be nice to find an adjustable FPR, similar build to the Corvette unit (filter, FPR, return) all in one.

Sorry, I'm new to EFI and all the various pressures has got me a bit confused. Everybody seems to use different poundage for the injectors, return systems vs. non-return, etc.. Most of the systems I've researched either come with fuel pressure sensors and their ECU control it or use it for adjustment purposes. I liked the Corvette filter because it is a compact way of apparently regulating the pressure and returning un-needed fuel back to the tank. I haven't read enough material yet to determine if the non-return modulated fuel pump has more benefits.

 

[B y r o n]

One thing I think of when considering a in-tank pump is the tanks baffle design. EFI Tanks are designed with baffle positions made to keep fuel in a specific fuel pick up location when fuel level is getting low. So just dropping in a fuel pump in a older non EFI tank may cause fuel pickup issues when running low on fuel.

Both the Phantom and the setup from Tanks Inc. include baffles to keep fuel at the pickup.

I like the Aeromotive Phantom's foam baffle idea because it would act as a large debris filter too. The Aeromotive also uses a smaller 3-1/4" hole where the Tanks Inc. uses a 4-1/2" hole. Both are adjustable as far as tank depth.

Placement would be in the lowest part of the tank and the spot I marked is on the drivers side of the internal tank baffle and away from the fill spout and fuel level sender.

What I'm more concerned with right now is clearance between the new fittings and the bottom of the seat. This is why I'm looking for additional input.

 

[Downey]

Is it just me, or did I miss something from above comments??? I don't recall reading anything about the fuel injection you want to install, or the pressure it will require. I would not be able to give recommendations on pump without knowing pressure needed. I do not agree with any suggestion that the ECU can control/regulate fuel pressure going to the injectors. Normally ECU programming only recognizes what fuel pressure from the pump should be, then adjusts timing/duration of injector opening vs pump pressure vs throttle demand????? Ok to school me if my info is too old school!!!!!

 

[Flipper1938]

Is there a specific reason you would not mount it in the cab?

Firey death comes to mind.

On an old school carb set-up, the supply line is not pressurized until after the fuel reaches the mechanical fuel pump. If the fuel leaks, it just drips.

On an in-tank EFI set-up, the supply line is pressurized. If you have a fuel leak (normal leak or crash damage), better chance for bad things to happen.

It needs to be on the other side of some sheetmetal.

 

[B y r o n]

Is it just me, or did I miss something from above comments??? I don't recall reading anything about the fuel injection you want to install, or the pressure it will require. I would not be able to give recommendations on pump without knowing pressure needed. I do not agree with any suggestion that the ECU can control/regulate fuel pressure going to the injectors. Normally ECU programming only recognizes what fuel pressure from the pump should be, then adjusts timing/duration of injector opening vs pump pressure vs throttle demand????? Ok to school me if my info is too old school!!!!!

Jim, I'm old school as well and just getting my fingers into EFI. According the the documentation I have read the ECU for the EFI controls the fuel pressure in a returnless system with Pulse Width Modulation or simply put it varies the voltage feeding the pump to adjust PSI. During setup you have to tell the system if you are running a return or returnless system.

It may also be that systems that require a return system do this so they don't need to monitor fuel pressure. I was assuming that the system would adjust the injector duration based on readings from the Wide Band O2 sensor.

 

[B y r o n]

Firey death comes to mind.

On an old school carb set-up, the supply line is not pressurized until after the fuel reaches the mechanical fuel pump. If the fuel leaks, it just drips.

On an in-tank EFI set-up, the supply line is pressurized. If you have a fuel leak (normal leak or crash damage), better chance for bad things to happen.

It needs to be on the other side of some sheetmetal.

I understand where you are coming from now. This may drive my decision to go with a returnless setup so I don't have to plumb a second hose through the floor.

When I first bought my FJ-40, many years ago, I was a little uncomfortable with the fuel tank basically right next to me inside the cab. Over the years I've sort of forgotten it was there until I think about storing something under the passenger seat and then realize I can't. I just figured that if I do go the return route and use the Corvette C5 filter that I could still get away with only the one line through the floor with the filter in the cab. I figured it could be on the floor under the console. I figured it couldn't get much more protected than that. I don't like the idea of going up in a fire ball either so more though is required.

 

[mdsims]

Firey death comes to mind.

On an old school carb set-up, the supply line is not pressurized until after the fuel reaches the mechanical fuel pump. If the fuel leaks, it just drips.

On an in-tank EFI set-up, the supply line is pressurized. If you have a fuel leak (normal leak or crash damage), better chance for bad things to happen.

It needs to be on the other side of some sheetmetal.

Great points. I'm laying out my fuel system to support my 'in progress' 3FE conversion. Your statement seems to go a step further than just the filter being in cab, are you saying that installing an in-tank pump in the OEM underseat tank is something to avoid all together? My desire was to go 'in-tank' under the seat, eliminates a few fittings and POFs. So far my only concern had been potential pump noise.

Trying to glean good tips while I'm still in the paper and pen phase.

Thanks,
Matt

 

[Clutchee]

AFI is short for affordable fuel injection.
Great folks to deal with; seen there fuel systems on 2f's/ 350's and my 327 work flawlessly!!!

 

[JTeeg]

Is there a specific reason you would not mount it in the cab?

Just don't like having any more fuel lines in the cab than necessary... I've seen plenty of aftermarket regulators leak. That being said the corvette FPR is pretty reliable.

 

[JTeeg]

Is it just me, or did I miss something from above comments??? I don't recall reading anything about the fuel injection you want to install, or the pressure it will require. I would not be able to give recommendations on pump without knowing pressure needed. I do not agree with any suggestion that the ECU can control/regulate fuel pressure going to the injectors. Normally ECU programming only recognizes what fuel pressure from the pump should be, then adjusts timing/duration of injector opening vs pump pressure vs throttle demand????? Ok to school me if my info is too old school!!!!!

You are correct in that most ECUs assume a fuel pressure and don't actually monitor it. To accommodate a change in fuel pressure from the factory setup, you would adjust the fuel injector parameters. As an example where you might need to do this if you swapped a LS truck intake manifold with a LS1 manifold. Early LS1 car FPRs referenced atmospheric pressure while trucks reference intake manifold pressure. If you use a corvette FPR with a truck LS engine, you'll need to adjust the injector to get best performance.

In general when doing an EFI swap it is best to stay with the factory FPR that came with the engine to minimize problems.

 

[Flipper1938]

Great points. I'm laying out my fuel system to support my 'in progress' 3FE conversion. Your statement seems to go a step further than just the filter being in cab, are you saying that installing an in-tank pump in the OEM underseat tank is something to avoid all together? My desire was to go 'in-tank' under the seat, eliminates a few fittings and POFs. So far my only concern had been potential pump noise.

Trying to glean good tips while I'm still in the paper and pen phase.

Thanks,
Matt

From a safety point of view, the whole tank under the floor is best (what every modern car/truck does now...plastic tank under floor would be even better). Second best would be external pump under the floor. Third best would be pump in tank with all metal components inside the passenger compartment (metal pump flange, metal ports, metal hard lines...etc). Fourth best would be use of plastic components but have a sealed cover (or damn near sealed) over the tank and fuel lines to isolate the passenger compartment.