- Thread starter
- #2,481
You're going to love what comes next then.
Think I had that thing in an out probably 5 or 6 times. I started to know exactly which tools I needed before I started the job and could get them all ready before I turned a wrench.
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You're going to love what comes next then.
Think I had that thing in an out probably 5 or 6 times. I started to know exactly which tools I needed before I started the job and could get them all ready before I turned a wrench.
That just means you've done it a bunch of times, not that it's fun each time
Watching intently.
- Thread starter
- #2,483
When pulling the injection pump the the drive gear gets to stay in the gear housing. Using the access hole you can leave the cover and gasket intact. I leave the puller bolts in (minus the puller) to manipulate the gear if needed. The gear cannot move far enough in the case to skip a tooth and mess up your timing so no worries there.
The thing you do need to be careful about is the key on the shaft (for VE pumps). The nice thing is that once you lock the pump it ends up being on the top side and mine always stayed with the IP shaft but there is always the risk of it falling off and into the gear housing. So being mindful of that I never had it fall out. This is the back side of the gear (injection pump side).
Not sure if my seal was starting to leak or not. Note the clean area right underneath the seal. Didn't matter because I wasn't planning to use the old lower end.
The thing you do need to be careful about is the key on the shaft (for VE pumps). The nice thing is that once you lock the pump it ends up being on the top side and mine always stayed with the IP shaft but there is always the risk of it falling off and into the gear housing. So being mindful of that I never had it fall out. This is the back side of the gear (injection pump side).
Not sure if my seal was starting to leak or not. Note the clean area right underneath the seal. Didn't matter because I wasn't planning to use the old lower end.
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Needs more cylinders. 
- Thread starter
- #2,485
Here are the two different tops. The new one on the left has no AFC (adds fuel with boost) while the one on the right is my old top with the AFC setup. Inside is where the fuel pin goes on the AFC top.
New top inside fuel lever. The bolt going through the case at 4 o'clock is the power screw.
AFC top inside lever. They are the same. The big spring in the pic is the governor spring. One can change this out to change when the pump will start defueling. I have the 3200 rpm or 366 spring in mine.
The throttle arm was the same. I used the new one on the left with no wear and tighter springs.
Pump lowers without their tops on. New on left, old on right. Visually the governor systems looked the same so it looked like I could use my AFC top on the new lower.
New pump with older style KSB unit. It automatically advances timing when cold and as the 12V connection heats up the internals it then stops advancing. So this needs constant 12V to not advance.
Old pump with new style KSB. This works the opposite and does not advance automatically. When you feed it 12V that's when it will advance timing. So if you leave it unplugged it won't affect timing at all.
When either KSB unit activates timing advance it advances 2-3 degrees from static timing. This was used for cold start ups to help reduce emissions. The backside of the unit and the piston inside the lower part of the pump it manipulates are both different between the two styles.
Old style KSB backside and the piston. The springs are different and the shims are different.
New style KSB. At the top you can see the M&H spacer that allows more travel on the piston which in turn allows more/bigger range of dynamic timing advance.
You need to use the KSB and piston set together. It wasn't as simple as just changing over the KSB unit.
New top inside fuel lever. The bolt going through the case at 4 o'clock is the power screw.
AFC top inside lever. They are the same. The big spring in the pic is the governor spring. One can change this out to change when the pump will start defueling. I have the 3200 rpm or 366 spring in mine.
The throttle arm was the same. I used the new one on the left with no wear and tighter springs.
Pump lowers without their tops on. New on left, old on right. Visually the governor systems looked the same so it looked like I could use my AFC top on the new lower.
New pump with older style KSB unit. It automatically advances timing when cold and as the 12V connection heats up the internals it then stops advancing. So this needs constant 12V to not advance.
Old pump with new style KSB. This works the opposite and does not advance automatically. When you feed it 12V that's when it will advance timing. So if you leave it unplugged it won't affect timing at all.
When either KSB unit activates timing advance it advances 2-3 degrees from static timing. This was used for cold start ups to help reduce emissions. The backside of the unit and the piston inside the lower part of the pump it manipulates are both different between the two styles.
Old style KSB backside and the piston. The springs are different and the shims are different.
New style KSB. At the top you can see the M&H spacer that allows more travel on the piston which in turn allows more/bigger range of dynamic timing advance.
You need to use the KSB and piston set together. It wasn't as simple as just changing over the KSB unit.
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- Thread starter
- #2,487
These are the markings on the new pump body. My old pump had no markings anywhere and it looked like the data plate had been removed. I knew a few things about it so this was a best guess.
I wanted to use my M&H timing spacer on the new pump. I couldn't find anything that said I couldn't use it with the earlier KSB unit. The problem I had was with the inner shim that comes with the spacer. It didn't have a large enough hole to slide over that post.
Spacer shim and regular shim for hole comparison.
So I enlarged the hole, put all the shims in (factory shims plus the spacer shim) and got the springs ready.
Got my spacer and o-rings situated for install.
From there I put my AFC top on the new lower and installed it back into the truck. Then I experimented with the new set up. I found that I couldn't get the KSB unit to work how I wanted and couldn't get the timing to act how I wanted. I didn't like that I had to run 12V to it all the time and it ran louder because of the timing. So I decided to pull off the pump and install my other KSB unit into this new lower.
I wanted to use my M&H timing spacer on the new pump. I couldn't find anything that said I couldn't use it with the earlier KSB unit. The problem I had was with the inner shim that comes with the spacer. It didn't have a large enough hole to slide over that post.
Spacer shim and regular shim for hole comparison.
So I enlarged the hole, put all the shims in (factory shims plus the spacer shim) and got the springs ready.
Got my spacer and o-rings situated for install.
From there I put my AFC top on the new lower and installed it back into the truck. Then I experimented with the new set up. I found that I couldn't get the KSB unit to work how I wanted and couldn't get the timing to act how I wanted. I didn't like that I had to run 12V to it all the time and it ran louder because of the timing. So I decided to pull off the pump and install my other KSB unit into this new lower.
Hojack
♠️Project Snowball❄️
Good stuff Mike
Checked your family hauling thread and see fresh posts. Haven’t seen these on 60s series forum. Must be on another forum. Getting closer to suspension and thought I’d go to the man.
Checked your family hauling thread and see fresh posts. Haven’t seen these on 60s series forum. Must be on another forum. Getting closer to suspension and thought I’d go to the man.
I love reading your posts Mike. You're absolute proof that the answers to just about any question can be found through research and some experimentation. Just amazing tech!!These are the markings on the new pump body. My old pump had no markings anywhere and it looked like the data plate had been removed. I knew a few things about it so this was a best guess.
I wanted to use my M&H timing spacer on the new pump. I couldn't find anything that said I couldn't use it with the earlier KSB unit. The problem I had was with the inner shim that comes with the spacer. It didn't have a large enough hole to slide over that post.
Spacer shim and regular shim for hole comparison.
So I enlarged the hole, put all the shims in (factory shims plus the spacer shim) and got the springs ready.
Got my spacer and o-rings situated for install.
From there I put my AFC top on the new lower and installed it back into the truck. Then I experimented with the new set up. I found that I couldn't get the KSB unit to work how I wanted and couldn't get the timing to act how I wanted. I didn't like that I had to run 12V to it all the time and it ran louder because of the timing. So I decided to pull off the pump and install my other KSB unit into this new lower.
You mentioned manual control for your new fans in the cab, I'm curious if you just have a simple switch or some sort of controller in cab?
I'd enjoy hearing more about how the Hercules Xcomp tires perform, I'm on 38's now but have a set of tons in the garage, at some point I want to go bigger, they may be part of the plan in the long term. It looks like you may have things apart now, but looking forward to seeing more pics of it with the new shoes.
I'd enjoy hearing more about how the Hercules Xcomp tires perform, I'm on 38's now but have a set of tons in the garage, at some point I want to go bigger, they may be part of the plan in the long term. It looks like you may have things apart now, but looking forward to seeing more pics of it with the new shoes.
- Thread starter
- #2,491
Was this for the radiator fans? If so I have a painless dual fan controller and the switch I have in the cab is a three position switch: ON - AUTO - OFF. So the controller actually runs the fans and the switch just selects the function.
For the Gladiator Xcomps while I seriously liked the sidewalls and they handled fine I had problems with out of round tires. I had three tires replaced and still had tire vibrations due to out of round. I tried to live with it but finally had enough and switched them out. The manufacturer did step up and refunded my entire tire cost and Discount tire treated me well. Got my replacement certificates transferred to my new tires and was out the door for only the cost different between the tires and labor. This happened just two weeks ago and I switched out to STT Pro's in the same 40" size. Just put 1500 miles on them with 33 of those being a hardcore trail last week. They are smoother on the road, more quiet (still a mud tire), and did pretty well on the trail. I was interested in trying out the Milestar Patagonia's but decided I wanted a better reviewed tire so the Pro's became my choice.
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Yikes, sucks about the xcomps. Good to know though.
I've been looking at the patagonia's too (they're cheaper than the xcomps) the tread seems a bit tamer, maybe better for highway mileage, the STT's should be good though, I may lean towards the STT's eventually too. My Geolanders have been ok, wear a little quicker than I'd like and they tend to cup a bit as they wear, gotta rotate them more to avoid it, but I've had two different sets do the same thing.
The other cheap 40" tire out there is the atturo trail blade boss, but the STT's are going to be better than everything mentioned above.
My electric fan just has some simple thermostat with dial control on the rad fan and a relay in a box, I believe it's aftermarket (PO had a shop do it). I could probably add a switch to power around the thermostat, but I haven't really had any issues with it, probably would be smart to have one and tied in to a turbo timer, but there is probably only a few trips a year where it's driven in over 75f weather, and not pulling trailers or anything, so I should probably focus on the other dozen projects I already have started.
I've been looking at the patagonia's too (they're cheaper than the xcomps) the tread seems a bit tamer, maybe better for highway mileage, the STT's should be good though, I may lean towards the STT's eventually too. My Geolanders have been ok, wear a little quicker than I'd like and they tend to cup a bit as they wear, gotta rotate them more to avoid it, but I've had two different sets do the same thing.
The other cheap 40" tire out there is the atturo trail blade boss, but the STT's are going to be better than everything mentioned above.
My electric fan just has some simple thermostat with dial control on the rad fan and a relay in a box, I believe it's aftermarket (PO had a shop do it). I could probably add a switch to power around the thermostat, but I haven't really had any issues with it, probably would be smart to have one and tied in to a turbo timer, but there is probably only a few trips a year where it's driven in over 75f weather, and not pulling trailers or anything, so I should probably focus on the other dozen projects I already have started.
^^ As far as this thread is concerned, his injection pump is still apart on the bench!
As far as this thread is concerned, his injection pump is still apart on the bench!
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^^
You Landcruiser guys are brutal.
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- #2,496
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- www.cascadecruisers.com
Here's a teaser.
I just had to adjust my pants.
- Thread starter
- #2,498
Back to some updates.
I pulled off the injection pump to swap out the KSB unit. This required taking out the distributor head, cam plate to be able to get to the pin that the advance piston pushes against to advance timing with pump rpm.
At the same time I decided to swap in my old cam plate to see if that would make a difference. The cam plate is what the high pressure piston rotates on and the high pressure piston is what builds the big PSI to send fuel to the injectors to pop off.
One last thing I thought I would try was putting a washer under the idle spring (the "top hat") in the AFC housing thinking more preload would help engine rpms from dropping when warmed up. My rpms would drop quite a bit once the fuel warmed up in the hotter months, more than I wanted. So back together and on the engine.
It was leaking fuel. Thought I tracked it down to the M&H spacer on the KSB unit so I took that off several times to try and figure it out. I tried washers under the screws thinking the screws were too long and not clamping enough to seal. I tried resurfacing the spacer and checked the o-rings. Reinstalled and still leaked.
Then I tracked it higher up on the pump to what I thought was the lock out bolt. Pulled that out and tried a couple different o-rings. Still leaked.
Pulled the IP. Finally found that the fuel inlet on top of the pump was the leaker. I converted my original pump to and AN style connection and when I swapped that on my new lower body the seal got messed up. After I fixed all that I put the pump back in.
The results were weird. Lots of boost (like 60psi plus) but no power. After my rounds of tuning and timing I took the pump off again. This is when I learned that the cam plate and the high pressure piston are a set and need to stay together. The washer under the idle spring did not help the hot rpm idle so I took that out too. Back together and on the engine.
Power was back but the boost PSI was down. More tuning and I started to reach run away conditions with this setup. I had never reached that with the old original pump and I was now only able to build 50 psi of boost max. Tried more tuning, returned my timing back from one tooth advanced back to the factory mark, tried turbo tuning too but it just wasn't enough. I also played with case pressure via the regulator but I wasn't making the power I wanted. I tried swapping around the two sets of delivery valves (long are from the new pump, short are from my original pump). I do believe the longer ones were a little better than the shorter ones but if there really is a difference, it's not by much. The actual delivery valves have the same cut and are already considered a "full cut" for those P-pump folks.
The more I thought about it the more I was convinced that the governor assembly really wasn't the same from my original pump to this new lower body so I decided to reassemble my original pump and run the new cam plate, high pressure piston, and distributor head on my old lower.
This is the point where I knew what tools and sizes I needed before I even started working. Out comes the pump to pull it apart.
I pulled off the injection pump to swap out the KSB unit. This required taking out the distributor head, cam plate to be able to get to the pin that the advance piston pushes against to advance timing with pump rpm.
At the same time I decided to swap in my old cam plate to see if that would make a difference. The cam plate is what the high pressure piston rotates on and the high pressure piston is what builds the big PSI to send fuel to the injectors to pop off.
One last thing I thought I would try was putting a washer under the idle spring (the "top hat") in the AFC housing thinking more preload would help engine rpms from dropping when warmed up. My rpms would drop quite a bit once the fuel warmed up in the hotter months, more than I wanted. So back together and on the engine.
It was leaking fuel. Thought I tracked it down to the M&H spacer on the KSB unit so I took that off several times to try and figure it out. I tried washers under the screws thinking the screws were too long and not clamping enough to seal. I tried resurfacing the spacer and checked the o-rings. Reinstalled and still leaked.
Then I tracked it higher up on the pump to what I thought was the lock out bolt. Pulled that out and tried a couple different o-rings. Still leaked.
Pulled the IP. Finally found that the fuel inlet on top of the pump was the leaker. I converted my original pump to and AN style connection and when I swapped that on my new lower body the seal got messed up. After I fixed all that I put the pump back in.
The results were weird. Lots of boost (like 60psi plus) but no power. After my rounds of tuning and timing I took the pump off again. This is when I learned that the cam plate and the high pressure piston are a set and need to stay together. The washer under the idle spring did not help the hot rpm idle so I took that out too. Back together and on the engine.
Power was back but the boost PSI was down. More tuning and I started to reach run away conditions with this setup. I had never reached that with the old original pump and I was now only able to build 50 psi of boost max. Tried more tuning, returned my timing back from one tooth advanced back to the factory mark, tried turbo tuning too but it just wasn't enough. I also played with case pressure via the regulator but I wasn't making the power I wanted. I tried swapping around the two sets of delivery valves (long are from the new pump, short are from my original pump). I do believe the longer ones were a little better than the shorter ones but if there really is a difference, it's not by much. The actual delivery valves have the same cut and are already considered a "full cut" for those P-pump folks.
The more I thought about it the more I was convinced that the governor assembly really wasn't the same from my original pump to this new lower body so I decided to reassemble my original pump and run the new cam plate, high pressure piston, and distributor head on my old lower.
This is the point where I knew what tools and sizes I needed before I even started working. Out comes the pump to pull it apart.
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- Thread starter
- #2,499
While continuing to play with tuning I found I was running cold in the winter months. Tracked it down to my coolant bypass valve in the back of the head. Pulled it out and found the reason. Silicon sealant that I put around the freeze plug hole made it's way into the valve and kept it from closing so coolant was bypassing all the time.
Not liking how I had to cobble that style pressure relief valve together I decided to change it out to something different. I found others using this valve that's adjustable and is sealed. LF530-C pressure relief valve.
Installed it and temps came back up to normal. I have it set on the lowest setting which is 50psi opening.
Also at some point I picked up some cheap LED markers to replace my side markers. Used amber up front and made an aluminum backing plate for mounting and covering up the hole in the factory gaskets. Hole spacing was the same as the factory.
Rear factory gaskets are different from the front but I used aluminum plate to fill in the space and painted them black.
My front driver side marker wiring has issues (had issues before too) but all the others work fine.
Not liking how I had to cobble that style pressure relief valve together I decided to change it out to something different. I found others using this valve that's adjustable and is sealed. LF530-C pressure relief valve.
Installed it and temps came back up to normal. I have it set on the lowest setting which is 50psi opening.
Also at some point I picked up some cheap LED markers to replace my side markers. Used amber up front and made an aluminum backing plate for mounting and covering up the hole in the factory gaskets. Hole spacing was the same as the factory.
Rear factory gaskets are different from the front but I used aluminum plate to fill in the space and painted them black.
My front driver side marker wiring has issues (had issues before too) but all the others work fine.
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Link to the marker lights?