Failing Fuel Pump Symptoms? Edit: Now With Data (1 Viewer)

[suprarx7nut]

Get yourself an OBD2 bluetooth adapter. $30 or so and I bet you can have one delivered overnight to wherever you're staying. Not being able to read codes makes this much harder.

Could be a dying coil. Air leak. spark plug backing out, etc... Codes might help you start somewhere.

 

[GTV]

If you're at a parts store for an air filter may as well have them read the codes too.

Exactly what I just did. New STP filter (I’ll replace with OEM when I get to MI) and for good measure cleaned the MAF again with the proper spray.

After cleaning the MAF yesterday with rubbing alcohol I continued my very short tour of YNP. It drove ok but I wasn’t pushing it, it pulled the 8500ft pass out the east entrance without drama. This morning as I left camp and accelerated to highway speeds it was still surging but that seemed to lessen as the engine got some heat in it.

In Cody, WY I had the codes read and cleared:

Get yourself an OBD2 bluetooth adapter. $30 or so and I bet you can have one delivered overnight to wherever you're staying. Not being able to read codes makes this much harder.

Could be a dying coil. Air leak. spark plug backing out, etc... Codes might help you start somewhere.

Coils, plugs, etc. are also relatively low mileage. I understand that doesn’t mean failure couldn’t happen though. The filthy filter and MAF sensor are completely due to my negligence and I feel like that’s the root of the problem. I need to pay closer attention to those things in the future with the amount of dirt I drive on.

Can anyone recommend a Bluetooth OBD2 reader?

 

[Biga27110]

Exactly what I just did. New STP filter (I’ll replace with OEM when I get to MI) and for good measure cleaned the MAF again with the proper spray.

After cleaning the MAF yesterday with rubbing alcohol I continued my very short tour of YNP. It drove ok but I wasn’t pushing it, it pulled the 8500ft pass out the east entrance without drama. This morning as I left camp and accelerated to highway speeds it was still surging but that seemed to lessen as the engine got some heat in it.

In Cody, WY I had the codes read and cleared:
View attachment 3058868



Coils, plugs, etc. are also relatively low mileage. I understand that doesn’t mean failure couldn’t happen though. The filthy filter and MAF sensor are completely due to my negligence and I feel like that’s the root of the problem. I need to pay closer attention to those things in the future with the amount of dirt I drive on.

Can anyone recommend a Bluetooth OBD2 reader?

I called it. Id check coils then injectors.

 

[GTV]

Idiot lights are back on. Drives about the same.

I called it. Id check coils then injectors.

All 4 coils on the same side? I could see there potentially being a restriction in the fuel rail on that side but coils, I dunno…

Edit: just looked back and @2001LC had the injectors rebuilt and replaced all coils at about 128k, at 195k now. I know that doesn’t rule them out completely though.

 

[Trunk Monkey]

Dig around for a vacuum line that got knocked off on that side or you forgot to reconnect last time you did work. MAF lines too. Could also be the upstream o2 sensor on that side.

 

[2001LC]

2007 LC, 194k miles. As far as I know the pump is original, filter was replaced about 65k miles ago. Currently on my way to Michigan.

Two days ago I drove from Boise to Ashton, ID. Drove perfectly fine the whole way until I missed my turn on a FS road and had to jab on the brakes fairly hard (not nearly hard enough to engage ABS though). I put in it reverse and notice the truck is really struggling to keep running and a few seconds later dies. I crank a few times but no start. I checked the fuel cap, no pressure escaping or fuel smell. I waited a few minutes and it fires up like nothing is wrong. I figure maybe it was because I had less than a 1/4 tank when I stabbed on the brakes and the pump grabbed some air? Doesn’t really make sense though…

No problems yesterday, filled up and did near 100 miles.

Today drove from Ashton to Grand Tetons and then another hour to find camp, also about 100 miles. When I arrived to camp I throw it into reverse and it starts to die again but this time I just shut it off. I check the cap again, nothing abnormal. I wait again, put the key to ON and listen for the fuel pump and can’t hear anything (I imagine these things are pretty silent though?). I crank it over and it starts right up and idles.

I’m not getting any idiot lights on the dash, unfortunately my new laptop won’t run Virtual Box so I haven’t hooked up Techstream.

Does this sound like a failing fuel pump or something else?

06-07 fuel pump, have resistance issue. In that as it runs in high speed, which is when RPM's are high. Pump gets hot. The more heat the greater the resistance builds, reducing AMP/current to motor. This is most prevalent on a hot day, which increases heat/resistance. Than as RPMs drop back, do to letting off gas pedal. Pump speed drops. At this point pump, due to resistance, fails to deliver acquit fuel flow/pressure to fuel rail. We get BK 1 & BK 2 DTC, if watching (These codes clear themselves quickly once running again)

Looks like the truck isn’t letting me off that easy. Drove fine after the pump install yesterday evening but this morning the check engine light and VSC lights are on. I can feel some surging going on when I hold the throttle at a steady cruise. Not sure what to make of that.

I’m going to continue on through Yellowstone today. Wish I still had Techstream up and running Is there anyone here around Northern Wyoming or the Black Hills that has TS and would be willing to help a brother out?

This maybe to do with a few issues, unrelated to fuel pump. But whenever issues come up, just after a service. That service most be investigate.

Reversing or hard braking. Moves things. Like wires and slouches fuel in tank..

I just replaced mine with OEM at 225k 06 LX after having fuel vapor lock and stalling.

I have the CEL still on with the P0420 P0430 CAT codes. The exhaust shop here says the fuel additives are clogging up the CATs

First avoid prolonged idling, which Toyota OM defines as 20 minutes IIRC.

I use 44K fuel additive in many VVT and none have issues kicking CAT codes because of. I also use Chevron techron, Seafoam and Caticlean.

The one exception was a very interesting bad Timing belt job, in and 05. Which I cleared by doing a HWY high RPM burn:

When I use these fuel additives. I do high RPM runs, when I know I've good oil. This helps burn off A/F & O2 sensor and CATs. Like turning ones oven to clean.

I'll start easy to get feel for engine. Also so that if CAT loaded with fuel, I don't get to hot at first. This is to hopefully burn of fuel reducing risk if ignition.
I do ~3 to 5 minutes @ ~4,500 RPM, than drive normal for twice as long between each run. Than 5 to 8 minutes @5,000 RPM. Than 10 to 12 minutes @ over 5,200 RPM in the VVT.
Hit 5,800 RPM in my new 07 last week on trip bring home from ABQ, NM to Den ,CO. Actually didn't mean to, just cruising and took my eye off the tech.
Freaking strong engine. I've found that CATs reach around 1,450f at 4,700 RPM, and ~1,630F @ 5,200RPM which is about as hot as I've seen. In this case I saw ECT (engine coolant temp) hit over 213F and A/T temp (transmission) near 197F. Cruiser at 80MPH with OAT of 94F. Which ECT & AT temp should not have been that high. I studied this 07's vehicle service history before this drive. So I suspected radiator fins had never been cleaned. Subsequently I cleaned the fins, and temps have come down nicely. I almost always find radiator fins clogged.

Looking up form under and between radiators. Muck is covering it's fins. It will take many washing just to get 70% clean.

Above is helpful to clear CAT DTC. But I suspect you've more going on here.

S.A.I. Filter Modification, in VVT engines. To prevent its failure! Alert Alert!

We've a $2.00 part in the S.A.I. (secondary air injection) system of the VVT engine, that is taking-out ~$7,000.00 $15,000 $25,000 (inflation) in parts. WOW! I've a very easy and cheap WORK AROUND. You are going to love this ;) This thread is dedicated to the 4.7L 2UZ-fe VVT engine, in the...

forum.ih8mud.com

Exactly what I just did. New STP filter (I’ll replace with OEM when I get to MI) and for good measure cleaned the MAF again with the proper spray.

After cleaning the MAF yesterday with rubbing alcohol I continued my very short tour of YNP. It drove ok but I wasn’t pushing it, it pulled the 8500ft pass out the east entrance without drama. This morning as I left camp and accelerated to highway speeds it was still surging but that seemed to lessen as the engine got some heat in it.

In Cody, WY I had the codes read and cleared:
View attachment 3058868



Coils, plugs, etc. are also relatively low mileage. I understand that doesn’t mean failure couldn’t happen though. The filthy filter and MAF sensor are completely due to my negligence and I feel like that’s the root of the problem. I need to pay closer attention to those things in the future with the amount of dirt I drive on.

Can anyone recommend a Bluetooth OBD2 reader?

I've used a BlueDriver for years. It has a close operating system, so locked to their software. Works well and I trust in code reading, although will not pick up everything as a miniVCI hooked into tech-stream will.

Just bought an OBDIIMX+. Now I can use many app to drive it. I can now see A/T temps and AHC Mpa and more. I'm liking it!

Both allow logging of data. Which I really like. Than I go back back and look at data over all time I choose to have scanner running.
Random screen shots of OMDIIMX+ running on iphone

 

[2001LC]

Idiot lights are back on. Drives about the same.



All 4 coils on the same side? I could see there potentially being a restriction in the fuel rail on that side but coils, I dunno…

Overheating head gasket issue, intake manifold gasket BK2, Boot leg plugs/coils, short are just some of what I'd look at.

Keep in mind, you got new and worst issues after fuel pump installed. The non 100 series fuel pump Denso 950-0210 work fine. But care needs taken during install. IIRC, there's a ball goes in a hole, hose need a clamps and bottom rubber is fitted are the key points.. I also always replace the tank seal.

 

[GTV]

Overheating head gasket issue, intake manifold gasket BK2, Boot leg plugs/coils, short are just some of what I'd look at.

Keep in mind, you got new and worst issues after fuel pump installed. The non 100 series fuel pump Denso 950-0210 work fine. But care needs taken during install. IIRC, there's a ball goes in a hole, hose need a clamps and bottom rubber is fitted are the key points.. I also always replace the tank seal.

The coils/plugs, etc. are the ones you installed. As far as I know nothing under the engine cover has been touched since it was under your care. Until yesterday I had no need to even remove the cover. I did so to remove/inspect/clean the airbox and whatever else I could see. I found nothing out of the ordinary.

It isn’t overheating. There are no obvious head gasket issues (coolant and oil look good). Let’s not even go there Paul!

I put some 3M fuel additive in the tank (couldn’t find the stuff you like in BFE Wyoming) yesterday and I’ve burned through about half of it with no change. Currently in Sheridan still slowly heading east. It isn’t undrivable, just really irritating to drive under about 3,000rpm with any sort of load. I did make it up another big 9-10,000’ pass yesterday, it didn’t fly up but made it without drama. I don’t *think* I’m causing any damage by continuing on, I’m slightly worried that it’ll leave me stranded and if that happens I’ll deal with it.

 

[Biga27110]

My vote is still coils or injectors. My cousin had the same exact symptoms we swapped coils and the problem didnt move. It ended up being an injector.

 

[suprarx7nut]

My vote is still coils or injectors. My cousin had the same exact symptoms we swapped coils and the problem didnt move. It ended up being an injector.

I like this hypothesis. And I think some basic OBD logging (or even just a live view) might help show that sort of problem. I think you'd see an abnormal trim or O2 response on one bank.

@GTV Unsure if you still need a bluetooth recommendation, but this is what I use. I bought it 7 years ago and it still works wonderfully. https://amzn.to/3o9DJS2

 

[Biga27110]

I like this hypothesis. And I think some basic OBD logging (or even just a live view) might help show that sort of problem. I think you'd see an abnormal trim or O2 response on one bank.

@GTV Unsure if you still need a bluetooth recommendation, but this is what I use. I bought it 7 years ago and it still works wonderfully. https://amzn.to/3o9DJS2

Having all the coils and injectors recently rebuilt only makes me believe its the coils or injectors at fault. Hmmmmmmmmmm

 

[GTV]

Having all the coils and injectors recently rebuilt only makes me believe its the coils or injectors at fault. Hmmmmmmmmmm

Coils were new, injectors were rebuilt, tested, etc.

In any case, I drove on today. Stopped for fuel in Gillette and on my way out the CEL and VSC lights decided they didn’t need to be on anymore! It still doesn’t accelerate as smoothly as it should (and I think it might be down on power? Hard to tell, I drive like a wuss) but it is definitely a lot better than it has been the last two days. Maybe that fuel treatment did something, I dunno. I’ve always considered that stuff to be snake oil.

I’ll get one of those Bluetooth adapters but I need a cheap laptop for TS.

 

[Biga27110]

Coils were new, injectors were rebuilt, tested, etc.

In any case, I drove on today. Stopped for fuel in Gillette and on my way out the CEL and VSC lights decided they didn’t need to be on anymore! It still doesn’t accelerate as smoothly as it should (and I think it might be down on power? Hard to tell, I drive like a wuss) but it is definitely a lot better than it has been the last two days. Maybe that fuel treatment did something, I dunno. I’ve always considered that stuff to be snake oil.

I’ll get one of those Bluetooth adapters but I need a cheap laptop for TS.

My reasoning is entirely based on the fact the coils are new and the injectors rebuilt. As well as the symptoms. Assuming people do their jobs correctly and assuming new parts aren't defective will leave you chasing ghosts. Go after the most obvious then go deeper. You cannot rule out coils and injectors until you have tested they are good. By either swapping sides or buying one and see if that misfire for that cylinder number goes away.

I always diagnose without bias. Hopefully by inspecting the coils and injectors you find the harness or clips lose which is causing the problem. Installation has human error.

I didn't read the entire thread so just ignore my comments if they are off base.

 

[2001LC]

The coils/plugs, etc. are the ones you installed. As far as I know nothing under the engine cover has been touched since it was under your care. Until yesterday I had no need to even remove the cover. I did so to remove/inspect/clean the airbox and whatever else I could see. I found nothing out of the ordinary.

It isn’t overheating. There are no obvious head gasket issues (coolant and oil look good). Let’s not even go there Paul!

I put some 3M fuel additive in the tank (couldn’t find the stuff you like in BFE Wyoming) yesterday and I’ve burned through about half of it with no change. Currently in Sheridan still slowly heading east. It isn’t undrivable, just really irritating to drive under about 3,000rpm with any sort of load. I did make it up another big 9-10,000’ pass yesterday, it didn’t fly up but made it without drama. I don’t *think* I’m causing any damage by continuing on, I’m slightly worried that it’ll leave me stranded and if that happens I’ll deal with it.

Going 4 years and over 65K miles. Is a long time, to not have anyone under the hood. It's specially long period to go without cleaning fins of Radaitor. More so when driving cross-country and off-road. It's why engine was replaced the first time. Drive through one Nevada bug swam, and it's near impossible to see through the dead bug on the windshield. Imagine how the radiator looks.

How do you know your not running hot or overheating?

Misfire a whole BK 2, not likely coils and or spark plugs. That would be a one in million shot, to have all go bad at same time same side unless something else happening.

Vacuum leaks are mostly on/to intake manifold, which effects both banks. Some exception are intake manifold gasket one side, cracked or warped intake manifold.
I'm unclear if the DTC were cleared and came back? We always record & clear DTC (codes) and see what returns.


BTW: I didn't supply coils. The Doc did, and was my understanding he bought off Amazon. I did inspect them and they "looked" good. The fact they've lasted this they should be fine. But don't assuming anything.

 

[Biga27110]

Going 4 years and over 65K miles. Is a long time, to not have anyone under the hood. It's specially long period to go without cleaning fins of Radaitor. More so when driving cross-country and off-road. It's why engine was replaced the first time. Drive through one Nevada bug swam, and it's near impossible to see through the dead bug on the windshield. Imagine how the radiator looks.

How do you know your not running hot or overheating?

Misfire a whole BK 2, not likely coils and or spark plugs. That would be a one in million shot, to have all go bad at same time same side unless something else happening.

Vacuum leaks are mostly on/to intake manifold, which effects both banks. Some exception are intake manifold gasket one side, cracked or warped intake manifold.
I'm unclear if the DTC were cleared and came back? We always record & clear DTC (codes) and see what returns.


BTW: I didn't supply coils. The Doc did, and was my understanding he bought off Amazon. I did inspect them and they "looked" good. The fact they've lasted this they should be fine. But don't assuming anything.

Interesting data point. Likely not OEM coils the poster should buy one to rule it out. All coils failing at the same time after being replaced at the same time sure sounds like a product of China. They work, just not for long.

 

[abuck99]

Very unlikely coils or plugs all failing on one bank.

Misfire codes on all cylinders on 1 bank actually points to clogged, partially clogged or failing cat - or some other restriction/issue between the header and the cat outlet causing the engine to over-fuel on that bank.

With TS or your obd tool reference and compare the O2 sensor data from left and right banks. Record data and report back. A back pressure test can also reveal clogged cat.

Another concern on 06-07 is the AI pump- the internal foam filter disintegrates crumbles apart and is thought to end up melted on the leading end of the cat causing some restriction.

The fact that you overlooked cleaning air filter so long and it was that full of dirt and dust, would first lead one to remove the intake tube and inspect tube and throttle body for dust. If that much dust entered the filter then it also entered AI- pump, settled and maybe pushed into engine on start up and shut down. Not sure if you have done the AI filter mod- if so then that’s not an issue.

Monitoring your overflow bottle, is your coolant level fluctuating with in range when cold and hot? Coolant low?

Compression test on that bank might be a good idea as well.

 

[2001LC]

Interesting data point. Likely not OEM coils the poster should buy one to rule it out. All coils failing at the same time after being replaced at the same time sure sounds like a product of China. They work, just not for long.

Where it is possible they were bad coils. The coils looked good when I inspected. One thing I've not seen with the China bootlegs junk. Is with the real Denso coils, the P/N sticker peels off. Under it, is a different PN#. I've a direct source from Denso these days, which all have these two P/N (stickers). I checked one of these 8 coils, and is was correct in that respect.

Also, If bootleg I don't see a whole bank going at same time. Nor would they likely last so long.

Except to a bank of coils going bad, real or bootleg. Excessive heat.

Very unlikely coils or plugs all failing on one bank.

Misfire codes on all cylinders on 1 bank actually points to clogged, partially clogged or failing cat - or some other restriction/issue between the header and the cat outlet causing the engine to over-fuel on that bank.

With TS or your obd tool reference and compare the O2 sensor data from left and right banks. Record data and report back. A back pressure test can also reveal clogged cat.

Another concern on 06-07 is the AI pump- the internal foam filter disintegrates crumbles apart and is thought to end up melted on the leading end of the cat causing some restriction.

The fact that you overlooked cleaning air filter so long and it was that full of dirt and dust, would first lead one to remove the intake tube and inspect tube and throttle body for dust. If that much dust entered the filter then it also entered AI- pump, settled and maybe pushed into engine on start up and shut down. Not sure if you have done the AI filter mod- if so then that’s not an issue.

Monitoring your overflow bottle, is your coolant level fluctuating with in range when cold and hot? Coolant low?

Compression test on that bank might be a good idea as well.

I would expect a DTC for AF or O2 sensors and or CAT if they've issue. But some codes readers don't pick up everything. The Bluedrive is good at reading those for sure. The OBDMXII+ I've already seen some DTC (codes) not show during (possible user error) a scan..

MAF, throttle body, common vacuum leaks. Should all kick off both banks. But then again reads don't always pick stuff up.

It's also possible a short, on just BK2. Rodents, water entry, loose contact, etc.

What I'd like to see:

Is actual ECT & Fuel trims while driving? CAT, A/T and IAT temps would be a great to have driving logs of also.

1. Something very easy that can be checked right now, with only a flashlight/iphone. How much muck is in each of the 3 radiator fins? (which I pictured earlier)
2. What is coolant level in radiator, after 8 hr cool down with rig parked front end higher than rear?
3. Is there any gunk around gas cap. Which would indicate fuel boiling? Was the there any fuel smell??

I'd really like to rule out running hot, first thing. Make sure this engine still good, as it "was" one of the best I've ever seen.

I'm have a great deal difficulty focusing mentally and fiscally "COVID" (F--in CHINA!). But I'll go back and read every word, once room stops spinning, and see if I've still have the same impression of event's. Which was; system got worst after fuel pump install! Which could be install issue, or just condition is getting worst and fuel had nothing to do with it.


BTW: Best to disconnect battery before MAS sensor, and reconnect battery last.

 

[GTV]

Going 4 years and over 65K miles. Is a long time, to not have anyone under the hood. It's specially long period to go without cleaning fins of Radaitor. More so when driving cross-country and off-road. It's why engine was replaced the first time. Drive through one Nevada bug swam, and it's near impossible to see through the dead bug on the windshield. Imagine how the radiator looks.

How do you know your not running hot or overheating?

Misfire a whole BK 2, not likely coils and or spark plugs. That would be a one in million shot, to have all go bad at same time same side unless something else happening.

Vacuum leaks are mostly on/to intake manifold, which effects both banks. Some exception are intake manifold gasket one side, cracked or warped intake manifold.
I'm unclear if the DTC were cleared and came back? We always record & clear DTC (codes) and see what returns.


BTW: I didn't supply coils. The Doc did, and was my understanding he bought off Amazon. I did inspect them and they "looked" good. The fact they've lasted this they should be fine. But don't assuming anything.

I’ve been playing with cars extensively for over 25 years now and this is my 4th 2UZ, I know what a hot engine smells like, acts like, etc. (Both my ‘00 Tundra and ‘03 Sequoia had moments of running hot). This engine doesn’t show a single sign of running hot. I generally take good care of my vehicles (and do all of my own maintenance), that being said this is my first time using a vehicle in this way (off-road, lots of long trips) so I’m making mistakes and learning what needs to be prioritized. I will have a closer look at the radiator, that’s not a bad idea.

Codes were read then cleared two days ago and the lights came right back. Yesterday the dash lights cleared themselves and I haven’t seen them since. I’d say it’s running at about 85-90% of normal at the moment.

 

[Biga27110]

I still stick with don't make assumptions. Go through each step as required. Simplest solutions first that follow basic ecu diagnostics Coil, injectors, plugs then go deeper.

Assuming an entire bank wouldn't go bad all at once; But what if they did? We must make order out of chaos. We must make order through systematic, organized thinking starting with the simplest most basic fundamentals. I'll be watching and hoping you find the solution.

 

[GTV]

Very unlikely coils or plugs all failing on one bank.

Misfire codes on all cylinders on 1 bank actually points to clogged, partially clogged or failing cat - or some other restriction/issue between the header and the cat outlet causing the engine to over-fuel on that bank.

With TS or your obd tool reference and compare the O2 sensor data from left and right banks. Record data and report back. A back pressure test can also reveal clogged cat.

Another concern on 06-07 is the AI pump- the internal foam filter disintegrates crumbles apart and is thought to end up melted on the leading end of the cat causing some restriction.

The fact that you overlooked cleaning air filter so long and it was that full of dirt and dust, would first lead one to remove the intake tube and inspect tube and throttle body for dust. If that much dust entered the filter then it also entered AI- pump, settled and maybe pushed into engine on start up and shut down. Not sure if you have done the AI filter mod- if so then that’s not an issue.

Monitoring your overflow bottle, is your coolant level fluctuating with in range when cold and hot? Coolant low?

Compression test on that bank might be a good idea as well.

I kinda agree on the failing cat. 195k is about when the cats on my old Tundra gave up but they didn’t give me the drivability issues that I’m having now.

I do remember seeing a post here about the AI foam filter disintegrating, I haven’t done anything to address that and I’m not sure if @2001LC knew about that problem when he did all the work to this truck. Need to find the thread and have a look…

I did remove the intake tube to inspect and clean. While the MAF sensor obviously was dirty (tip in immediately improved after cleaning) the rest of the tube and throttle body wasn’t bad at all. The OEM filter was doing its job and keeping the clean side clean.

Overflow levels are good hot and cold, coolant looks good.